What If Valanciunas Becomes Available?

[JHTruth]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

One might think watching Gortat absolutely destroy the Celtics "front line", Celtics fans might be interested in "dinosaurs" such as him. Alas, the solution is to find more soft bigs who can "spread the floor", aka brick threes and get waxed on the boards and get abused in the post..

[obnoxiousmime]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

Who are you referring to? Markieff? He was traded last year, not this year. Ainge has been preserving his cap space to make FA runs at stars, and I don't think that's a bad strategy. It's easier to get complementary players than it is stars, even though both are still hard.

Thompson is fine. He plays center in their best lineup, not 4. Here we already have Horford for that lineup, and investing in another player for that amount of money is not prudent. The reason the Cavs paid him is because when LeBron came over he made it clear Thompson, who is represented by his friend's agency, would have to be re-signed to a fat, probably above market deal. Not that he isn't a good player, but he got a really big deal. The Cavs had to do it to keep LeBron happy. The reason they could do it is because Thompson was already on the roster and they could go over the cap to sign him.

The Celtics are in a different scenario because everyone would agree they're still 1, probably 2 stars away from being a realistic contender. They have to keep their cap space open to provide flexibility for FA signings or trades, which is why Danny hasn't made any deals that would improve the team slightly but add long-term salary.

Because we already have Horford as the small-ball C, it wouldn't make sense to sign another big man that only has the foot speed to defend traditional 4s and 5s. Sure, if we already had three superstars in place and needed the depth for traditional lineups and backup minutes, it's no problem to sign a guy over the cap. We aren't in that position right now, however. If we get a guy like Valanciunas we'd be paying a lot for a guy who wouldn't see the floor in our best lineup, and also he'd tie up the space we need to sign a max guy outright with cap space.

Are there ways to get guys off your cap by trading them? Sure, but that's not really treating the guy you just acquired very fairly, and also you might have to give up assets to unload them. There's also always the possibility the player gets injured and his trade value drops to a point where you won't get anything close to fair value. This is what happened with Rondo, he got hurt and we couldn't deal him when his value was at its highest (though we still miraculously got Crowder who ended up being pretty good, and a first rounder).

[SparzWizard]

By all means, do it. We need legit rim protectors and rebounders.

Don't want to see Ainge signing more PGs or SGs protecting the rim or rebounding lol. Or like another poster said, 7-foot small forwards.

[Quetzalcoatl]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

One might think watching Gortat absolutely destroy the Celtics "front line", Celtics fans might be interested in "dinosaurs" such as him. Alas, the solution is to find more soft bigs who can "spread the floor", aka brick threes and get waxed on the boards and get abused in the post..

The teams with the "dinosaur centers" are the 8-3 seeds who can beat us there, but cap themselves out and will never advance from those seeds. The problem is of course that signing Gortat or a player like him would destroy our cap and in of itself likely prevent us from ever getting good enough to beat the Cavs or GSW.  So it's like a catch-22.  We should just add as much talent as we can within the cap like we're doing and hope some of these BK picks become stars. 

GSW, Houston and the Cavs do not rely on "dinosaur centers"

[Rondo9]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

Thompson is more athletic than Jonas who looked really slow against the Cavs.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

Who are you referring to? Markieff? He was traded last year, not this year. Ainge has been preserving his cap space to make FA runs at stars, and I don't think that's a bad strategy. It's easier to get complementary players than it is stars, even though both are still hard.

Thompson is fine. He plays center in their best lineup, not 4. Here we already have Horford for that lineup, and investing in another player for that amount of money is not prudent. The reason the Cavs paid him is because when LeBron came over he made it clear Thompson, who is represented by his friend's agency, would have to be re-signed to a fat, probably above market deal. Not that he isn't a good player, but he got a really big deal. The Cavs had to do it to keep LeBron happy. The reason they could do it is because Thompson was already on the roster and they could go over the cap to sign him.

The Celtics are in a different scenario because everyone would agree they're still 1, probably 2 stars away from being a realistic contender. They have to keep their cap space open to provide flexibility for FA signings or trades, which is why Danny hasn't made any deals that would improve the team slightly but add long-term salary.

Because we already have Horford as the small-ball C, it wouldn't make sense to sign another big man that only has the foot speed to defend traditional 4s and 5s. Sure, if we already had three superstars in place and needed the depth for traditional lineups and backup minutes, it's no problem to sign a guy over the cap. We aren't in that position right now, however. If we get a guy like Valanciunas we'd be paying a lot for a guy who wouldn't see the floor in our best lineup, and also he'd tie up the space we need to sign a max guy outright with cap space.

Are there ways to get guys off your cap by trading them? Sure, but that's not really treating the guy you just acquired very fairly, and also you might have to give up assets to unload them. There's also always the possibility the player gets injured and his trade value drops to a point where you won't get anything close to fair value. This is what happened with Rondo, he got hurt and we couldn't deal him when his value was at its highest (though we still miraculously got Crowder who ended up being pretty good, and a first rounder).

I understand the overall strategy, and I appreciate your response.

The main problem I see with Danny's strategy isn't the strategy itself, but the timing of it: that is, there might not be a single elite FA (á la KG) available anytime during the team's current window (meaning, during the period of time when Ainge has all these great assets to spend on said FA).

He swung and missed with Durant (totally worth the shot), and I imagine Durant stays in GS for the rest of his prime. And even if we assume that Griffin, Hayward, Butler, and George are available, I don't believe that any of those guys puts Boston into the elite class of contenders with GS and CLE (they'd move the needle, for sure, but not enough—unless Danny could somehow get two of them?).

The player of whom I spoke is DeMarcus Cousins—you guessed wrong, forcing me to say his name, so I can't be held responsible for the backlash that might follow. There's no need for any of us to rehash that debate, but he was IMO the perfect fit for what this team needs in the frontcourt: a dominant player who can bang down low and get rebounds (and for the stretch-big lovers, he's become a decent 3pt shooter).

It seems to me that the likeliest route for Danny is to try to sign Hayward this summer and (hopefully) get a future superstar in the draft. That's a couple of big IFs, in my opinion, and even if both happen, it'll still be a few years before the team is at the level it needs to be—which I guess is okay, given that LeBron is likely to continue ruling the East for a few more years. Then again, by that time, the ship might've sailed for Horford and IT, which would mean more holes to fill.

As I said earlier, I understand the overall strategy of "be prepared for anything, because you never know what opportunities might arise." I guess I'm just a bit doubtful of that strategy, because of

a) the lack of big-time established players available;
b) possibly putting too much hope in the relatively low odds of drafting the next superstar; and c) the low odds of everything falling into place like it did for GS (guy drafted 7th becomes way better than most imagined, guy drafted in the second round becomes way better than anyone imagined, having all these good young players on ridiculously cheap contracts and thus being able to afford an elite FA).

Sometimes I feel like Danny has done everything he can to prepare the perfect party, but no one wants to attend. But maybe that's just the cynic in me.

Here's to hoping things fall into place for Boston in the coming years.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

One might think watching Gortat absolutely destroy the Celtics "front line", Celtics fans might be interested in "dinosaurs" such as him. Alas, the solution is to find more soft bigs who can "spread the floor", aka brick threes and get waxed on the boards and get abused in the post..

The teams with the "dinosaur centers" are the 8-3 seeds who can beat us there, but cap themselves out and will never advance from those seeds. The problem is of course that signing Gortat or a player like him would destroy our cap and in of itself likely prevent us from ever getting good enough to beat the Cavs or GSW.  So it's like a catch-22.  We should just add as much talent as we can within the cap like we're doing and hope some of these BK picks become stars. 

GSW, Houston and the Cavs do not rely on "dinosaur centers"

You're right, they don't, but that probably is mostly because they have perhaps the three or four best players in the game, which eliminates the need for a traditional big.

So I guess if we get the No. 1 pick, draft Fultz, and he turns out to be the next Curry/Harden/LeBron, we'll be all set.

[obnoxiousmime]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

Who are you referring to? Markieff? He was traded last year, not this year. Ainge has been preserving his cap space to make FA runs at stars, and I don't think that's a bad strategy. It's easier to get complementary players than it is stars, even though both are still hard.

Thompson is fine. He plays center in their best lineup, not 4. Here we already have Horford for that lineup, and investing in another player for that amount of money is not prudent. The reason the Cavs paid him is because when LeBron came over he made it clear Thompson, who is represented by his friend's agency, would have to be re-signed to a fat, probably above market deal. Not that he isn't a good player, but he got a really big deal. The Cavs had to do it to keep LeBron happy. The reason they could do it is because Thompson was already on the roster and they could go over the cap to sign him.

The Celtics are in a different scenario because everyone would agree they're still 1, probably 2 stars away from being a realistic contender. They have to keep their cap space open to provide flexibility for FA signings or trades, which is why Danny hasn't made any deals that would improve the team slightly but add long-term salary.

Because we already have Horford as the small-ball C, it wouldn't make sense to sign another big man that only has the foot speed to defend traditional 4s and 5s. Sure, if we already had three superstars in place and needed the depth for traditional lineups and backup minutes, it's no problem to sign a guy over the cap. We aren't in that position right now, however. If we get a guy like Valanciunas we'd be paying a lot for a guy who wouldn't see the floor in our best lineup, and also he'd tie up the space we need to sign a max guy outright with cap space.

Are there ways to get guys off your cap by trading them? Sure, but that's not really treating the guy you just acquired very fairly, and also you might have to give up assets to unload them. There's also always the possibility the player gets injured and his trade value drops to a point where you won't get anything close to fair value. This is what happened with Rondo, he got hurt and we couldn't deal him when his value was at its highest (though we still miraculously got Crowder who ended up being pretty good, and a first rounder).

I understand the overall strategy, and I appreciate your response.

The main problem I see with Danny's strategy isn't the strategy itself, but the timing of it: that is, there might not be a single elite FA (á la KG) available anytime during the team's current window (meaning, during the period of time when Ainge has all these great assets to spend on said FA).

He swung and missed with Durant (totally worth the shot), and I imagine Durant stays in GS for the rest of his prime. And even if we assume that Griffin, Hayward, Butler, and George are available, I don't believe that any of those guys puts Boston into the elite class of contenders with GS and CLE (they'd move the needle, for sure, but not enough—unless Danny could somehow get two of them?).

The player of whom I spoke is DeMarcus Cousins—you guessed wrong, forcing me to say his name, so I can't be held responsible for the backlash that might follow. There's no need for any of us to rehash that debate, but he was IMO the perfect fit for what this team needs in the frontcourt: a dominant player who can bang down low and get rebounds (and for the stretch-big lovers, he's become a decent 3pt shooter).

It seems to me that the likeliest route for Danny is to try to sign Hayward this summer and (hopefully) get a future superstar in the draft. That's a couple of big IFs, in my opinion, and even if both happen, it'll still be a few years before the team is at the level it needs to be—which I guess is okay, given that LeBron is likely to continue ruling the East for a few more years. Then again, by that time, the ship might've sailed for Horford and IT, which would mean more holes to fill.

As I said earlier, I understand the overall strategy of "be prepared for anything, because you never know what opportunities might arise." I guess I'm just a bit doubtful of that strategy, because of

a) the lack of big-time established players available;
b) possibly putting too much hope in the relatively low odds of drafting the next superstar; and c) the low odds of everything falling into place like it did for GS (guy drafted 7th becomes way better than most imagined, guy drafted in the second round becomes way better than anyone imagined, having all these good young players on ridiculously cheap contracts and thus being able to afford an elite FA).

Sometimes I feel like Danny has done everything he can to prepare the perfect party, but no one wants to attend. But maybe that's just the cynic in me.

Here's to hoping things fall into place for Boston in the coming years.

Right, but I think that this team is still young enough to be patient. The only one who is a little old is Horford, and he doesn't really require athleticism to be good. I think he will still be near-peak levels throughout the length of his deal. Tim Duncan also didn't need athleticism to excel and he aged really well. Horford has always been described as a poor man's Tim Duncan, though maybe with less scoring.

We probably will never know for sure what happened with Cousins, but I agree that he looked to me to be a good fit skills-wise, with the only caveat being he and Horford probably would not be able to guard against a smaller lineup.

Zach Lowe once said that tanking was just the "best of a lot of low probability options," and he's right. In the same respect, waiting around for a player to agree to come here with no guarantee is also the best option for the team now, even if it's low probability. But let me tell you, making incremental improvements by signing lots of role players is worse than low probability. It's essentially zero probability.

If they sign Hayward, even if it's not a move that brings them to Cleveland's level, it doesn't cost them anything but cap space. Hayward is young and has a good injury history so it's a good bet his value won't decline over the course of the deal. As long as you have good deals on the books, you still maintain flexibility. It's having too many bad deals that get you into a bind.

[mr. dee]

Funny how people automatically label big who can space the as "softies" who don't rebound.

The reason I don't want Jonas is because not only he can't spread the floor, but he can't protect the rim against PnRs either. You need an agile big to do so, nevermind stretching the floor. JV doesn't fill the boxes on that category.

[csfansince60s]

By all means, do it. We need legit rim protectors and rebounders.

Don't want to see Ainge signing more PGs or SGs protecting the rim or rebounding lol. Or like another poster said, 7-foot small forwards.

But that what Stevens wants.

He has made it clear that rim protecting and rebounding are not as important to him as spreading the floor and having the foot speed to defend the P'n R.

Butler Ball....our salvation, or our downfall. I'm not sure.

Ideally you want a big who can do all 4 of those things, the proverbial unicorn. One was available at the trade deadline, but little Brad was afraid of the Boogie man. Big miss there.

[Somebody]

By all means, do it. We need legit rim protectors and rebounders.

Don't want to see Ainge signing more PGs or SGs protecting the rim or rebounding lol. Or like another poster said, 7-foot small forwards.

But that what Stevens wants.

He has made it clear that rim protecting and rebounding are not as important to him as spreading the floor and having the foot speed to defend the P'n R.

Butler Ball....our salvation, or our downfall. I'm not sure.

Ideally you want a big who can do all 4 of those things, the proverbial unicorn. One was available at the trade deadline, but little Brad was afraid of the Boogie man. Big miss there.

Well we can always find a 4 to pair with Al. JaMychal Green can shoot, defend and rebound. I'd go for him hard in FA.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Funny how people automatically label big who can space the as "softies" who don't rebound.

The reason I don't want Jonas is because not only he can't spread the floor, but he can't protect the rim against PnRs either. You need an agile big to do so, nevermind stretching the floor. JV doesn't fill the boxes on that category.

I'm sure that not all stretch bigs are softies who can't rebound, but the ones on the current Celtics team are.

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

Who are you referring to? Markieff? He was traded last year, not this year. Ainge has been preserving his cap space to make FA runs at stars, and I don't think that's a bad strategy. It's easier to get complementary players than it is stars, even though both are still hard.

Thompson is fine. He plays center in their best lineup, not 4. Here we already have Horford for that lineup, and investing in another player for that amount of money is not prudent. The reason the Cavs paid him is because when LeBron came over he made it clear Thompson, who is represented by his friend's agency, would have to be re-signed to a fat, probably above market deal. Not that he isn't a good player, but he got a really big deal. The Cavs had to do it to keep LeBron happy. The reason they could do it is because Thompson was already on the roster and they could go over the cap to sign him.

The Celtics are in a different scenario because everyone would agree they're still 1, probably 2 stars away from being a realistic contender. They have to keep their cap space open to provide flexibility for FA signings or trades, which is why Danny hasn't made any deals that would improve the team slightly but add long-term salary.

Because we already have Horford as the small-ball C, it wouldn't make sense to sign another big man that only has the foot speed to defend traditional 4s and 5s. Sure, if we already had three superstars in place and needed the depth for traditional lineups and backup minutes, it's no problem to sign a guy over the cap. We aren't in that position right now, however. If we get a guy like Valanciunas we'd be paying a lot for a guy who wouldn't see the floor in our best lineup, and also he'd tie up the space we need to sign a max guy outright with cap space.

Are there ways to get guys off your cap by trading them? Sure, but that's not really treating the guy you just acquired very fairly, and also you might have to give up assets to unload them. There's also always the possibility the player gets injured and his trade value drops to a point where you won't get anything close to fair value. This is what happened with Rondo, he got hurt and we couldn't deal him when his value was at its highest (though we still miraculously got Crowder who ended up being pretty good, and a first rounder).

I understand the overall strategy, and I appreciate your response.

The main problem I see with Danny's strategy isn't the strategy itself, but the timing of it: that is, there might not be a single elite FA (á la KG) available anytime during the team's current window (meaning, during the period of time when Ainge has all these great assets to spend on said FA).

He swung and missed with Durant (totally worth the shot), and I imagine Durant stays in GS for the rest of his prime. And even if we assume that Griffin, Hayward, Butler, and George are available, I don't believe that any of those guys puts Boston into the elite class of contenders with GS and CLE (they'd move the needle, for sure, but not enough—unless Danny could somehow get two of them?).

The player of whom I spoke is DeMarcus Cousins—you guessed wrong, forcing me to say his name, so I can't be held responsible for the backlash that might follow. There's no need for any of us to rehash that debate, but he was IMO the perfect fit for what this team needs in the frontcourt: a dominant player who can bang down low and get rebounds (and for the stretch-big lovers, he's become a decent 3pt shooter).

It seems to me that the likeliest route for Danny is to try to sign Hayward this summer and (hopefully) get a future superstar in the draft. That's a couple of big IFs, in my opinion, and even if both happen, it'll still be a few years before the team is at the level it needs to be—which I guess is okay, given that LeBron is likely to continue ruling the East for a few more years. Then again, by that time, the ship might've sailed for Horford and IT, which would mean more holes to fill.

As I said earlier, I understand the overall strategy of "be prepared for anything, because you never know what opportunities might arise." I guess I'm just a bit doubtful of that strategy, because of

a) the lack of big-time established players available;
b) possibly putting too much hope in the relatively low odds of drafting the next superstar; and c) the low odds of everything falling into place like it did for GS (guy drafted 7th becomes way better than most imagined, guy drafted in the second round becomes way better than anyone imagined, having all these good young players on ridiculously cheap contracts and thus being able to afford an elite FA).

Sometimes I feel like Danny has done everything he can to prepare the perfect party, but no one wants to attend. But maybe that's just the cynic in me.

Here's to hoping things fall into place for Boston in the coming years.

Right, but I think that this team is still young enough to be patient. The only one who is a little old is Horford, and he doesn't really require athleticism to be good. I think he will still be near-peak levels throughout the length of his deal. Tim Duncan also didn't need athleticism to excel and he aged really well. Horford has always been described as a poor man's Tim Duncan, though maybe with less scoring.

We probably will never know for sure what happened with Cousins, but I agree that he looked to me to be a good fit skills-wise, with the only caveat being he and Horford probably would not be able to guard against a smaller lineup.

Zach Lowe once said that tanking was just the "best of a lot of low probability options," and he's right. In the same respect, waiting around for a player to agree to come here with no guarantee is also the best option for the team now, even if it's low probability. But let me tell you, making incremental improvements by signing lots of role players is worse than low probability. It's essentially zero probability.

If they sign Hayward, even if it's not a move that brings them to Cleveland's level, it doesn't cost them anything but cap space. Hayward is young and has a good injury history so it's a good bet his value won't decline over the course of the deal. As long as you have good deals on the books, you still maintain flexibility. It's having too many bad deals that get you into a bind.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I guess I begrudge the process a little because I don't want to wait another 3-5 years for legit contention. And I don't know how many more years I can take watching the Celtics without a legit rebounder.

[celticsclay]

It kinda cracks me up whenever people refer to JV or other traditional centers as "dinosaurs," because that's the type of player that often bludgeons the Celtics.

I'm not sure what some Cs fans want in a big. A guy who shoots threes? We have that in KO. Somebody tougher than KO, you say? You mean like JV? Ah, he's a dinosaur.

So you want the ideal player. I guess we all do. You know who fits that mold? Very few.

I can think of one really good candidate, but Danny passed on him this year. I don't want to say his name, though, because I don't want to send anyone here into a fit of rage. But that's the guy you're all thinking of—a big who can bang down low and shoot outside, and is also a good passer.

Tristan Thompson is another guy whom, I suppose, some would refer to as a dinosaur, because he's not a "stretch" 4. But he kills the Cs every time he plays them. I'd sure love to have that dino and his 9 boards a game on our team. Or JV—a legit 7-footer—and his 12 pts, 9.5 reb, and 20 PER.

But I guess Danny will stick with broken-down guys like Amir, or softies like KO. You'd think Danny never played with two of the best bigs to every lace 'em up.

I guess the guys I was referring to Monroe, Valuncionus, Okafor and Kanter are just too slow to switch consistently on defense and just get tagged by the majority of teams. There are plenty of good rebounders that can switch like Deandre, Embid, Towns, Turner (though his awareness needs improvement), Noel, Porzingas, Capela and Jokic. There are other guys like Adams and Nurkic that seem to be less bad despite being slower, but I could be wrong on them.

[csfansince60s]

By all means, do it. We need legit rim protectors and rebounders.

Don't want to see Ainge signing more PGs or SGs protecting the rim or rebounding lol. Or like another poster said, 7-foot small forwards.

But that what Stevens wants.

He has made it clear that rim protecting and rebounding are not as important to him as spreading the floor and having the foot speed to defend the P'n R.

Butler Ball....our salvation, or our downfall. I'm not sure.

Ideally you want a big who can do all 4 of those things, the proverbial unicorn. One was available at the trade deadline, but little Brad was afraid of the Boogie man. Big miss there.

Well we can always find a 4 to pair with Al. JaMychal Green can shoot, defend and rebound. I'd go for him hard in FA.

I agree about Green....Millsap checks a lot of boxes too.

[obnoxiousmime]

I think that the "problem" if you can consider it one is Horford, for all his strengths is simply not a rebounder. So you're asking whomever plays next to him to have some rebounding ability but also shoot the 3. Then when you consider that besides Thomas they have no other playmaker, suddenly this 4 has to basically be a near-perfect player to solve all our needs at once. That's quite a tall order.

You could say, well we're just not going to be a good rebounding team when small. But then that means that you have got to improve your offense/shooting to a point where lack of rebounding isn't a fatal flaw. That's the problem I see right now, is that besides the lack of a second offensive option that can create their own shot, we just don't shoot consistently enough.