Poll

What's the worst?

Chauncey Billups for Kenny Anderson
14 (19.2%)
Paul Westphal for Charlie Scott
4 (5.5%)
Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers
47 (64.4%)
Antoine Walker for Raef LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch and Chris Mills
3 (4.1%)
Danny Ainge for Joe Kleine
5 (6.8%)

Total Members Voted: 73

Author Topic: Worst trade in Celtics History?  (Read 2136 times)

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Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2017, 07:52:00 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

As I recall, Shaq got injured as soon as Perk got back, and J.O. was out until the playoffs, so their win/loss record after his return is misleading (assuming what you gave is true as I haven't looked it up). The memorable win after his return was their beating the Heat when the Heat were on a long winning streak, causing tears to some of the players according to Coach Spoelstra.

The following year, if Ray Allen didn't have bone spurs and Pierce a sprained knee, the winner of the C.F.'s may have been the Celtics.
But that information was only given as context for the C's record when you said, "The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made." Perkins had absolutely nothing to do with amassing that record so your point is irrelevant.

Meh, what I wrote is totally relevant to the rest of his paragraph.
No it wasn't. You wrote "The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left" which implies that the Perkins trade was the reason for the loss of their interior defense and chemistry but Perkins didn't play for the team when they amassed the conference leading-record.

What you wrote was completely wrong and misleading.

You're missing the point (maybe deliberately). Nenad Krstic wasn't an interior defender. They missed the interior defense and chemistry they had with Perkins the rest of the season and playoffs, especially with Shaq gone.

The reason why the Celtics had an awesome team wasnt because of Perkins and interior D. It was because of Shaq making KG-PP-Ray and even Rondo almost unguardable. It was really Beautiful to watch, Shaq was feasting on single coverage because you cannot leave the other Celtics alone.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2017, 08:12:14 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

As I recall, Shaq got injured as soon as Perk got back, and J.O. was out until the playoffs, so their win/loss record after his return is misleading (assuming what you gave is true as I haven't looked it up). The memorable win after his return was their beating the Heat when the Heat were on a long winning streak, causing tears to some of the players according to Coach Spoelstra.

The following year, if Ray Allen didn't have bone spurs and Pierce a sprained knee, the winner of the C.F.'s may have been the Celtics.
But that information was only given as context for the C's record when you said, "The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made." Perkins had absolutely nothing to do with amassing that record so your point is irrelevant.

Meh, what I wrote is totally relevant to the rest of his paragraph.
No it wasn't. You wrote "The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left" which implies that the Perkins trade was the reason for the loss of their interior defense and chemistry but Perkins didn't play for the team when they amassed the conference leading-record.

What you wrote was completely wrong and misleading.

You're missing the point (maybe deliberately). Nenad Krstic wasn't an interior defender. They missed the interior defense and chemistry they had with Perkins the rest of the season and playoffs, especially with Shaq gone.

The reason why the Celtics had an awesome team wasnt because of Perkins and interior D. It was because of Shaq making KG-PP-Ray and even Rondo almost unguardable. It was really Beautiful to watch, Shaq was feasting on single coverage because you cannot leave the other Celtics alone.
That's not totally true. Shaq was indeed feasting (making 2/3's of his shots in 20 mpg) the C's were the 2nd best defensive team in the league in 2011 and only the 18th offensive team. Their strength really was their defense.