Poll

What's the worst?

Chauncey Billups for Kenny Anderson
20 (22.2%)
Paul Westphal for Charlie Scott
4 (4.4%)
Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers
51 (56.7%)
Antoine Walker for Raef LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch and Chris Mills
7 (7.8%)
Danny Ainge for Joe Kleine
8 (8.9%)

Total Members Voted: 90

Author Topic: Worst trade in Celtics History?  (Read 3060 times)

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Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2017, 08:27:54 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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see the Pitino era, worst GM ever.  Traded away Chauncey and Joe Johnson for nothing.
the billups deal wasn't a bad trade.

we got Kenny Anderson who was still a good PG at that time and helped keep Antoine in check by taking the ball out of his hands.  Billups took years to develop --> far more years than the Celtic fanbase would have given him.  if you doubt that, take a look at how fast many posters here expect high draft picks to begin performing.  Billups was a complete mess his rookie year.

the JJ trade sucked because he showed actual potential as opposed to Brown who showed nothing but the ability to jump.

I'd have to go with the Westphal trade as the worst.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2017, 08:42:28 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2017, 09:04:13 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

Couldn't agree more saltlover

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2017, 09:09:05 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Great response SL - I have been banging that drum for years.

I HATED the LaFrentz trade then and I still hate it today. Raef had horrible knees, was signed for a five additional years at $50M (an exorbitant contract in those days) and we were trading one of our franchise cornerstones and emotional leader. DA wanted to assert his authority in starting his new job and he did it in a catastrophic way.

From a complex.com article about the 25 worst contracts in NBA history (Raef at #9):
Quote
The problem was the injuries and the ineffectiveness of LaFrentz. He was a good player, but sometimes teams forget how long of a commitment seven years is. Somehow the Mavericks were able to offload his contract in 2003 in a trade to the Boston Celtics that sent Antoine Walker to Dallas

I am not saying Antoine was untradable, just that a trade for almost any other player in the NBA at the time would have been a better deal. Letting Walker leave as a FA the next season would have been much better.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2017, 09:17:19 AM »

Offline alley oop

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.


Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2017, 09:32:24 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Billups trade is my pick, just because he was a championship material, more so than Joe was. Trading a guy 3 months after drafting him is just ridiculous. It is like admitting that you based your pick purely on luck and it didn't work.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2017, 09:47:55 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2017, 11:13:43 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.
The Perkins trade not only shouldn't be on this list, I think it was a good trade.

As saltlover says, Perksin didn't play the first half of that season when the C's where playing well. In the 3 years with OKC after the trade, Perkins averaged 4 points and 6 rebounds in about 25 mpg and over those years everyone's favorite question became "Why do the Thunder still start Perkins?"

Green never met expectations but at 14ppg with the C's, he was arguably as good or better of a player than Perkins was over that stretch. The C's also got a 1st rounder (wasted on Fab Melo, but that shouldn't affect the judgement of the trade) and were able to flip Green for Memphis' 1st rounder-in-waiting and Tayshaun Prince in 2015 when Perkins was getting waived by teams. 

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2017, 01:40:35 PM »

Offline alley oop

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

As I recall, Shaq got injured as soon as Perk got back, and J.O. was out until the playoffs, so their win/loss record after his return is misleading (assuming what you gave is true as I haven't looked it up). The memorable win after his return was their beating the Heat when the Heat were on a long winning streak, causing tears to some of the players according to Coach Spoelstra.

The following year, if Ray Allen didn't have bone spurs and Pierce a sprained knee, the winner of the C.F.'s may have been the Celtics.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2017, 02:06:29 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

As I recall, Shaq got injured as soon as Perk got back, and J.O. was out until the playoffs, so their win/loss record after his return is misleading (assuming what you gave is true as I haven't looked it up). The memorable win after his return was their beating the Heat when the Heat were on a long winning streak, causing tears to some of the players according to Coach Spoelstra.

The following year, if Ray Allen didn't have bone spurs and Pierce a sprained knee, the winner of the C.F.'s may have been the Celtics.
But that information was only given as context for the C's record when you said, "The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made." Perkins had absolutely nothing to do with amassing that record so your point is irrelevant.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 02:16:08 PM »

Offline alley oop

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

As I recall, Shaq got injured as soon as Perk got back, and J.O. was out until the playoffs, so their win/loss record after his return is misleading (assuming what you gave is true as I haven't looked it up). The memorable win after his return was their beating the Heat when the Heat were on a long winning streak, causing tears to some of the players according to Coach Spoelstra.

The following year, if Ray Allen didn't have bone spurs and Pierce a sprained knee, the winner of the C.F.'s may have been the Celtics.
But that information was only given as context for the C's record when you said, "The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made." Perkins had absolutely nothing to do with amassing that record so your point is irrelevant.

Meh, what I wrote is totally relevant to the rest of his paragraph.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 03:13:37 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic got to be up there too, or at least one of the suddenly weird ones.
Krstic gone, and Green missed out on our pivotal 2012 run season. Green became irrelevant eventually.

Man, it would be nice to have a big like Krstic right about now lol.

This trade isn't even close to the worst ever, and people need to let it go.  Perkins was coming off an ACL, wound up missing a few weeks post-trade, shot under 50% from the field, and was going to leave as a free agent after the season anyway.  People forget that the Celtics had an urgent need for someone to play backup minutes at the 3 after Marquis Daniels suffered that terrible neck injury immediately before the trade deadline.

The Celtics were probably not getting past the Heat regardless of that trade, especially if we believe Wade would have still injured Rondo.  Perk was walking, and so instead the Celtics got back several things for both the short and long run.  Everything went wrong with those things, of course (Green's heart condition, the lockout induced Krstic to sign overseas and never return, the new salary cap made it impossible for the Celtics to replace either Green or Krstic, the 1st round pick was used on Fab Melo).  Despite that, we still made the conference finals the next year, so the team's chemistry wasn't broken beyond repair, and eventually resigned Green and then traded him for a 1st and 2nd that we have yet to receive, so while Perkins is out of the NBA, we've rebuilt and are still reaping benefits that ultimately trace back to that deal.

People really need to let that deal go.

The C's were leading the E.C. when the trade was made. They lost their interior defense and chemistry when he left. He was 5th scoring option, so his FG% didn't matter. Had he been there Wade may never had dared do what he did to Rondo. He played in Conference Finals for the Thunder, so he was healthy.

It's true the C's were leading the EC at the time of the trade.  It's also true that Perkins played in only 12 games, and started only 7.  In those 7 starts, the Celtics went 4-3, so it's pretty fair to say that Perkins' was not very responsible for the Celtics record at the time of the trade.  That they ultimately finished third in the conference could easily have happened had Perk not been traded -- again, he missed 3 weeks immediately after the trade, so he wasn't going to have been there the entire season.  For all the narrative of how the Celtics soul was ripped from the team after that trade, they won 5 in a row after that loss in Denver the night of the trade.  It's a nice story, but probably no more rooted in fact than one that tells about how the Celtics had holes that the Perk trade tried to patch, albeit unsuccessfully, and it was those flaws that ultimately limited their season.

Also, please don't forget that the LeBron-era Heat won the Eastern Conference all four years, and they only had the best conference record one of those years.  There is little evidence in reviewing those seasons that the Heat were not the best team in the East each of those years, regardless of regular season results.

As I recall, Shaq got injured as soon as Perk got back, and J.O. was out until the playoffs, so their win/loss record after his return is misleading (assuming what you gave is true as I haven't looked it up). The memorable win after his return was their beating the Heat when the Heat were on a long winning streak, causing tears to some of the players according to Coach Spoelstra.

The following year, if Ray Allen didn't have bone spurs and Pierce a sprained knee, the winner of the C.F.'s may have been the Celtics.

I have no memory of the timing of Shaq's injury, but I'll take you at your word.  However, you continue to ignore the fact that Perk missed three weeks immediately after the trade.  With JO out, Shaq out, and Perk out, the acquisition of Krstic made even more sense.  Not to mention, as I already have, the injury to Daniels, who's 20 minutes a game could go to Jeff Green.

At the time of the trade deadline, the Celtics had 5 guys with significant injuries:

Shaq
O'Neal
Perk
Daniels
Semih Erden

That's four centers and a small forward.  They had two healthy bigs in KG and Big Baby -- that was not sustainable.  They traded their least broken (and thusly most valuable) of the centers (Perk) for a center who could walk in Krstic, and a small forward with maybe some untapped potential, who certainly could be immediately useful.  I'm sure if Ainge could have traded O'Neal instead, he would have.

The following year is irrelevant in terms of Perk's potential contributions.  He wasn't re-signing in Boston -- no way was Ainge going to give him the four year, $33 million deal that OKC regretted pretty quickly.  I only mentioned it as a counter example to the popular argument that the team's chemistry was shattered by the loss of Perkins -- clearly, it wasn't, as they went to the ECF the folllwing year, not to mention demolished the Knicks in the first round of the playoffs that year.

The trade wasn't successful in its short-term goals, since Krstic wasn't successfully assimilated by Doc and Green turned out to be just a guy.  The long-term goals also worked not-that-well, since Krstic left the US, Green had heart problems, and came back being just an overpaid guy, and Melo was a true bust if a draft pick.  We'll see what becomes of the Memphis pick that we ultimately got for Green.  But it was far from an abysmal failure.  Not every trade is black-and-white.

The only reason the Celtics championship starting 5 never lost a series was because Ainge traded Perk before that could happen.  If nothing else, fans here should be happy because the trade forever made that statement true.

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 03:31:39 PM »

Offline JumpingJudkins

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I HATED the LaFrentz trade then and I still hate it today. Raef had horrible knees, was signed for a five additional years at $50M (an exorbitant contract in those days) and we were trading one of our franchise cornerstones and emotional leader. DA wanted to assert his authority in starting his new job and he did it in a catastrophic way.

From a complex.com article about the 25 worst contracts in NBA history (Raef at #9):
Quote
The problem was the injuries and the ineffectiveness of LaFrentz. He was a good player, but sometimes teams forget how long of a commitment seven years is. Somehow the Mavericks were able to offload his contract in 2003 in a trade to the Boston Celtics that sent Antoine Walker to Dallas

I am not saying Antoine was untradable, just that a trade for almost any other player in the NBA at the time would have been a better deal. Letting Walker leave as a FA the next season would have been much better.

No trade that involved Antoine Walker leaving should be considered on a worst trade list ...

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 03:39:50 PM »

Offline otherdave

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Salt - you are absolutely correct on this Perkins trade matter.  It was a good trade, one that made a lot of sense.  The KP lovers should let go of this one.
"And so when we started winning, it was really cool. The thing I still remember, when we won the title [in 2008], I looked over and Tommy was crying. And I was thinking: He's the true definition of what a Celtic is. And he's the best. Tommy means the world to me."     Doc Rivers

Re: Worst trade in Celtics History?
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 03:53:55 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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They had two healthy bigs in KG and Big Baby -- that was not sustainable.  They traded their least broken (and thusly most valuable) of the centers (Perk) for a center who could walk in Krstic, and a small forward with maybe some untapped potential, who certainly could be immediately useful.  I'm sure if Ainge could have traded O'Neal instead, he would have.
Um no, by the time when he was traded, Perkins played and played decently. Maybe he was a broken toy in the long run, but he was clearly in a condition where he could have been a contributing member to the team that season. He did fine for the rest of the season in Oklahoma.

This was clearly a case where the Celtics valued Green over Nate Robinson, and thought Perkins for Krstic would be close to a wash.... AND they were getting a pick. Unfortunately, neither of these panned out.
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