Warming To The Idea That Not Signing A MAX-FA Would Be Wise

[JSD]

If all else fails and no max guy wants to come here, Celtics should take a good hard look at absorbing Carmelo Anthony for the 2 years he has remaining on his contract. At this point, I don't think it would take much more than a lottery protected 1st round pick.

Melo would have to buy in of course and adapt his game to Stevens, if he did that I think he would highly effective with the Celtics.

[Moranis]

Assuming Boston drafts a guard or wing how exactly does everyone think there are going to be enough minutes to go around?  People are getting moved, there just aren't enough minutes to properly develop the young guys with Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Smart, Brown, and the Rookie.  That doesn't even account for Rozier, Jackson, or Green.  It is a numbers game and the numbers just don't add up.  There needs to be consolidation which preferably would include an upgrade. That is why I'd have no issue trading 3 wings for a better wing.

[TheSundanceKid]

Assuming Boston drafts a guard or wing how exactly does everyone think there are going to be enough minutes to go around?  People are getting moved, there just aren't enough minutes to properly develop the young guys with Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Smart, Brown, and the Rookie.  That doesn't even account for Rozier, Jackson, or Green.  It is a numbers game and the numbers just don't add up.  There needs to be consolidation which preferably would include an upgrade. That is why I'd have no issue trading 3 wings for a better wing.

If we stood pat over the summer then there is definitely a numbers problem but I imagine it's fairly easy to solve. Rozier is probably the one who suffers and gets moved.

However I don't think it comes to that. I think Ainge is going to be aggressive chasing Paul George and the Nets pick is going to be involved. I think the back court rotation next year will be the same as this year.

[Moranis]

Assuming Boston drafts a guard or wing how exactly does everyone think there are going to be enough minutes to go around?  People are getting moved, there just aren't enough minutes to properly develop the young guys with Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Smart, Brown, and the Rookie.  That doesn't even account for Rozier, Jackson, or Green.  It is a numbers game and the numbers just don't add up.  There needs to be consolidation which preferably would include an upgrade. That is why I'd have no issue trading 3 wings for a better wing.

If we stood pat over the summer then there is definitely a numbers problem but I imagine it's fairly easy to solve. Rozier is probably the one who suffers and gets moved.

However I don't think it comes to that. I think Ainge is going to be aggressive chasing Paul George and the Nets pick is going to be involved. I think the back court rotation next year will be the same as this year.

there aren't enough no idea to properly develop Brown and the Rookie with Thomas, Bradley, Smart, and Crowder either.   You can't expect the Rookie or Brown to truly develop playing under 20 mpg.  You have to give them time which they just aren't going to get without moves

[TheSundanceKid]

Assuming Boston drafts a guard or wing how exactly does everyone think there are going to be enough minutes to go around?  People are getting moved, there just aren't enough minutes to properly develop the young guys with Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Smart, Brown, and the Rookie.  That doesn't even account for Rozier, Jackson, or Green.  It is a numbers game and the numbers just don't add up.  There needs to be consolidation which preferably would include an upgrade. That is why I'd have no issue trading 3 wings for a better wing.

If we stood pat over the summer then there is definitely a numbers problem but I imagine it's fairly easy to solve. Rozier is probably the one who suffers and gets moved.

However I don't think it comes to that. I think Ainge is going to be aggressive chasing Paul George and the Nets pick is going to be involved. I think the back court rotation next year will be the same as this year.

there aren't enough no idea to properly develop Brown and the Rookie with Thomas, Bradley, Smart, and Crowder either.   You can't expect the Rookie or Brown to truly develop playing under 20 mpg.  You have to give them time which they just aren't going to get without moves

Well if we look at mpg for the year and think about who they will be replacing in the lineup:

Brown - 17.2 mpg
Rozier - 17.1mpg
Green - 11.4 mpg
Young - 7.6 mpg

That's 53.3 mpg available. I doubt they end up taking all those minutes but that's easily 22mpg each and I haven't even tried to squeeze others. JJ had 15mpg as well, some of which could go to Brown next year.

Rozier would have to be moved most likely but past that minutes isn't an issue. Also I really don't expect the rookie to see big minutes. It didn't happen with Jaylen, in fact his minutes are probably higher than Stevens would have liked because of injuries throughout the year.

[Phantom255x]

If all else fails and no max guy wants to come here, Celtics should take a good hard look at absorbing Carmelo Anthony for the 2 years he has remaining on his contract. At this point, I don't think it would take much more than a lottery protected 1st round pick.

Melo would have to buy in of course and adapt his game to Stevens, if he did that I think he would highly effective with the Celtics.

Yeah that could be a "placeholder" kind of option, like having Horford/IT/Melo for a year or two while the young guys develop, then make a serious run in a few years with Lebron also getting there in age.

We'd still have IT (hopefully) and Horford (back-end of contract) at the time of a serious run as well. Meanwhile, we'd just keep competing.

[Phantom255x]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'll say the exact same thing. Hayward/Griffin at the expense of ALL that?

Do we really expect Zizic to come in and be our go-to option besides Horford?

Please, adding either Hayward/Griffin + losing all that STILL doesn't make us better than CLE.

If we were talking about a Durant, then yeah we can make the argument there.

[jakeopp]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'll say the exact same thing. Hayward/Griffin at the expense of ALL that?

Do we really expect Zizic to come in and be our go-to option besides Horford?

Please, adding either Hayward/Griffin + losing all that STILL doesn't make us better than CLE.

If we were talking about a Durant, then yeah we can make the argument there.

What moves do put us above Cleveland? Maybe selling off our assets for a guy like PG13 and then adding a legit big (who fits Stevens system) with whatever is left. Even then, knocking Lebron out of the playoffs has proven to be a near impossible task. Ultimately, getting past the Cavs means nothing if you can't beat the absurdly stacked Warriors.

Zeller/Amir/Jerebko have no value long term here. Olynyk is wildly inconsistent, and I'd move him in a heartbeat to get an all-star caliber player.

As for Bradley and Smart, do you really think they both have a long term future here? I'm not convinced they'll be worth what they get paid in free agency. If we draft a guard, someone will have to go eventually. Though if we plan to compete with this Warriors team in the future, we'll need defenders like AB and Marcus...

Fultz Ball or Smith may end up being great offensive players at the next level, but they aren't helping us against the Warriors of the league if they're revolving​ doors on defense. Assuming the Warriors stay together long term, which i'm  sure they will...

[mef730]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'll say the exact same thing. Hayward/Griffin at the expense of ALL that?

Do we really expect Zizic to come in and be our go-to option besides Horford?

Please, adding either Hayward/Griffin + losing all that STILL doesn't make us better than CLE.

If we were talking about a Durant, then yeah we can make the argument there.

I'll take it one step further: Let's get to the Cleveland series before we start counting our max free agents. If we can't get through Washington, we won't have to worry about where Gordon Hayward will sign.

Okay, onto the issue at hand. This question has been bothering me all year, and I'm starting to lean to the OP's position. Here's my question: Is there anyone that we could add to the team that would be "the guy?" In other words, if free agent X signs with us, would we have enough to get through Cleveland? How about win a title? Because if that's the route we go, that's our team for the next 3-4 years. Yes, we have some exciting young players. Maybe someday Jaylen Brown will turn out to be "the guy." But I don't think it's Gordon Hayward. Blake Griffin can't seem to stay healthy. And Paul George is unlikely to make any long-term commitments, since there is no reason for him to.

And I had something else to say, but I forget what it was. I'm sure it was poignant and insightful, but for now, I'll return to wondering why I only order curry on the days that I wear light-colored shirts.

Mike

[Phantom255x]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'll say the exact same thing. Hayward/Griffin at the expense of ALL that?

Do we really expect Zizic to come in and be our go-to option besides Horford?

Please, adding either Hayward/Griffin + losing all that STILL doesn't make us better than CLE.

If we were talking about a Durant, then yeah we can make the argument there.

I'll take it one step further: Let's get to the Cleveland series before we start counting our max free agents. If we can't get through Washington, we won't have to worry about where Gordon Hayward will sign.

Okay, onto the issue at hand. This question has been bothering me all year, and I'm starting to lean to the OP's position. Here's my question: Is there anyone that we could add to the team that would be "the guy?" In other words, if free agent X signs with us, would we have enough to get through Cleveland? How about win a title? Because if that's the route we go, that's our team for the next 3-4 years. Yes, we have some exciting young players. Maybe someday Jaylen Brown will turn out to be "the guy." But I don't think it's Gordon Hayward. Blake Griffin can't seem to stay healthy. And Paul George is unlikely to make any long-term commitments, since there is no reason for him to.

And I had something else to say, but I forget what it was. I'm sure it was poignant and insightful, but for now, I'll return to wondering why I only order curry on the days that I wear light-colored shirts.

Mike

Yeah, I think that's where the potential is there for a Carmelo Anthony deal to happen, especially considering he would come at a cheap trade price, and we'd have him for two years.

In that time, maybe Brown can learn a bit from Anthony, and this team has an IT/Horford/Melo trio for about 1-2 years, and then hope for a big trade/star to come after that.

That's like lower on the list of plans Ainge does I hope though. Not super high on Carmelo, but it's an option.

[green_bballers13]

If the best players available are Griffin (too many missed games) and Hayward (good not great), it makes sense why you wouldn't want to sign one to a max deal. If Lebron, KD, Kawhi, and Westbrook were all up for FA, no one around here would care about signing them to the max.

I want the Celtics to wait for the next great player to become available before signing another max deal. This might not be possible.

[mef730]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'll say the exact same thing. Hayward/Griffin at the expense of ALL that?

Do we really expect Zizic to come in and be our go-to option besides Horford?

Please, adding either Hayward/Griffin + losing all that STILL doesn't make us better than CLE.

If we were talking about a Durant, then yeah we can make the argument there.

I'll take it one step further: Let's get to the Cleveland series before we start counting our max free agents. If we can't get through Washington, we won't have to worry about where Gordon Hayward will sign.

Okay, onto the issue at hand. This question has been bothering me all year, and I'm starting to lean to the OP's position. Here's my question: Is there anyone that we could add to the team that would be "the guy?" In other words, if free agent X signs with us, would we have enough to get through Cleveland? How about win a title? Because if that's the route we go, that's our team for the next 3-4 years. Yes, we have some exciting young players. Maybe someday Jaylen Brown will turn out to be "the guy." But I don't think it's Gordon Hayward. Blake Griffin can't seem to stay healthy. And Paul George is unlikely to make any long-term commitments, since there is no reason for him to.

And I had something else to say, but I forget what it was. I'm sure it was poignant and insightful, but for now, I'll return to wondering why I only order curry on the days that I wear light-colored shirts.

Mike

Yeah, I think that's where the potential is there for a Carmelo Anthony deal to happen, especially considering he would come at a cheap trade price, and we'd have him for two years.

In that time, maybe Brown can learn a bit from Anthony, and this team has an IT/Horford/Melo trio for about 1-2 years, and then hope for a big trade/star to come after that.

That's like lower on the list of plans Ainge does I hope though. Not super high on Carmelo, but it's an option.

I would do Melo. We'd get at least a year out of him and then his second year he'd be that most valuable of players, the expiring contract.

Mike

[Phantom255x]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'll say the exact same thing. Hayward/Griffin at the expense of ALL that?

Do we really expect Zizic to come in and be our go-to option besides Horford?

Please, adding either Hayward/Griffin + losing all that STILL doesn't make us better than CLE.

If we were talking about a Durant, then yeah we can make the argument there.

I'll take it one step further: Let's get to the Cleveland series before we start counting our max free agents. If we can't get through Washington, we won't have to worry about where Gordon Hayward will sign.

Okay, onto the issue at hand. This question has been bothering me all year, and I'm starting to lean to the OP's position. Here's my question: Is there anyone that we could add to the team that would be "the guy?" In other words, if free agent X signs with us, would we have enough to get through Cleveland? How about win a title? Because if that's the route we go, that's our team for the next 3-4 years. Yes, we have some exciting young players. Maybe someday Jaylen Brown will turn out to be "the guy." But I don't think it's Gordon Hayward. Blake Griffin can't seem to stay healthy. And Paul George is unlikely to make any long-term commitments, since there is no reason for him to.

And I had something else to say, but I forget what it was. I'm sure it was poignant and insightful, but for now, I'll return to wondering why I only order curry on the days that I wear light-colored shirts.

Mike

Yeah, I think that's where the potential is there for a Carmelo Anthony deal to happen, especially considering he would come at a cheap trade price, and we'd have him for two years.

In that time, maybe Brown can learn a bit from Anthony, and this team has an IT/Horford/Melo trio for about 1-2 years, and then hope for a big trade/star to come after that.

That's like lower on the list of plans Ainge does I hope though. Not super high on Carmelo, but it's an option.

I would do Melo. We'd get at least a year out of him and then his second year he'd be that most valuable of players, the expiring contract.

Mike

He has a player option though and I doubt he opts-out of it. Could be a bit risky for the C's as well.

[Moranis]

If the best players available are Griffin (too many missed games) and Hayward (good not great), it makes sense why you wouldn't want to sign one to a max deal. If Lebron, KD, Kawhi, and Westbrook were all up for FA, no one around here would care about signing them to the max.

I want the Celtics to wait for the next great player to become available before signing another max deal. This might not be possible.

this is the last summer for max cap space (or near max) unless Boston let's Thomas, Bradley, Smart go.

And Boston just signed a max contract player worse than Griffin and Hayward

[Irish Stew]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

This. TP. I would happily strip the roster down to Horford, Thomas, Smart, Zizic, and Yabusele in order to bring in Hayward and George. Fill out the roster this year with NBA minimum wage guys. Once you have the stars, you've done the hard part, the heavy lifting. Getting role players and complementary players is far less difficult as these type of franchises become magnets for aging veterans looking for a title or another title.