Warming To The Idea That Not Signing A MAX-FA Would Be Wise

[Roy H.]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

I understand what you are saying but the problem with that is if you are going to have a team with Thomas as your max guy, you need to have defensive stoppers surrounding him otherwise his defensive weaknesses will out-weigh his offensive talents. For example Bradley is a premier on ball/perimeter defender and when he is on the court he has a negative defensive rating.

[Smitty77]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

Roy,

Wouldn't you MUCH rather trade Jae (who will demand a HUGE raise when up), AB (who who likely cannot afford to re-sign), and next year's Nets' pick for Butler RATHER than give away a developing Olynyk for NOTHING but the CHANCE to sign a player like Hayward that might not move the needle toward a Championship??

I personally do NOT think that Hayward is enough of an Alpha male to pay the max.  I would GREATLY prefer TRADING for Butler than clearing MOST of our depth and signing Hayward or a horrifically injury-prone Griffin!!!

This would likely be contingent on us drafting Fultz, Jackson, or Tatum.

Thoughts?

Smitty77

[Roy H.]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

Roy,

Wouldn't you MUCH rather trade Jae (who will demand a HUGE raise when up), AB (who who likely cannot afford to re-sign), and next year's Nets' pick for Butler RATHER than give away a developing Olynyk for NOTHING but the CHANCE to sign a player like Hayward that might not move the needle toward a Championship??

I personally do NOT think that Hayward is enough of an Alpha male to pay the max.  I would GREATLY prefer TRADING for Butler than clearing MOST of our depth and signing Hayward or a horrifically injury-prone Griffin!!!

This would likely be contingent on us drafting Fultz, Jackson, or Tatum.

Thoughts?

Smitty77

If my options are:

Hayward + Crowder + Bradley + 2018 Nets pick

or

Butler + KO?

I'm taking the first option 100 times out of 100, Smitty. I think Hayward is a better secondary option than Butler, and Hayward has fit in exceptionally with Utah's defense.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

Roy,

Wouldn't you MUCH rather trade Jae (who will demand a HUGE raise when up), AB (who who likely cannot afford to re-sign), and next year's Nets' pick for Butler RATHER than give away a developing Olynyk for NOTHING but the CHANCE to sign a player like Hayward that might not move the needle toward a Championship??

I personally do NOT think that Hayward is enough of an Alpha male to pay the max.  I would GREATLY prefer TRADING for Butler than clearing MOST of our depth and signing Hayward or a horrifically injury-prone Griffin!!!

This would likely be contingent on us drafting Fultz, Jackson, or Tatum.

Thoughts?

Smitty77

If my options are:

Hayward + Crowder + Bradley + 2018 Nets pick

or

Butler + KO?

I'm taking the first option 100 times out of 100, Smitty. I think Hayward is a better secondary option than Butler, and Hayward has fit in exceptionally with Utah's defense.

Just a thought, I know Crowder disliked the Celtics fans cheering for Hayward, so how will he feel if we sign him? Can Crowder play as a guard or regular small ball four? I highly doubt he would be happy with a bench role.

[MBunge]

Talent > Depth

If we can sign top tier talent, I don't care how many role players we have to jettison. Stars win in this league. The Kelly Olynks and Terry Roziers are just along for the ride.

Except not all talent is truly top-tier.  There's only one LeBron and just because a guy gets a max contract, it doesn't mean he's a max player.

Mike

[Somebody]

I'd draft Fultz, release Zeller, Amir, Jerebko and Mickey. I'd try to resign Gerald Green and James Young as our 3rd string wings. I'd then hand out Olynyk a 4 year 48 million contract (no increase by the years so it would be 12 million a year). Then I'd sign Bradley and Smart to a 4 year 76 million and a 4 year 50 million extension respectively. I'd try to sign a PF like Ilyasova to a 2 year contract not worth more than 22 million with a player option after the first year. Then I'd use the room exception to sign a guy like David West or Mo Speights (4.3 million iirc should be enough, they are on minimum deals). Also I'd engineer a trade for Rozier for some minor assets to clear space for Fultz.
Lineup:
IT, Fultz, Jackson
Bradley, Smart, Young
Crowder, Brown, Green
Ilyasova, KO, Yabu
Horford, Zizic, West/Speights
Imo it is a deep team with a lot of young untapped talent that can develop and help us over the season with a good amount of proven vets that can contend.

[LilRip]

The NBA is a rich get richer type of league. Build your core well and the underpaid vets will come. If we can get past the Wiz and give the Cavs a good fight, landing a Paul George will have talking heads thinking that we might have enough to dethrone them. The vets like Gerald Green will sign for less to play for a contender.

[Somebody]

The NBA is a rich get richer type of league. Build your core well and the underpaid vets will come. If we can get past the Wiz and give the Cavs a good fight, landing a Paul George will have talking heads thinking that we might have enough to dethrone them. The vets like Gerald Green will sign for less to play for a contender.

Yeah that's true. However getting a big star or not will most likely depend on our performance in the playoffs (honestly I hope we build organically)

[jakeopp]

I'd draft Fultz, release Zeller, Amir, Jerebko and Mickey. I'd try to resign Gerald Green and James Young as our 3rd string wings. I'd then hand out Olynyk a 4 year 48 million contract (no increase by the years so it would be 12 million a year). Then I'd sign Bradley and Smart to a 4 year 76 million and a 4 year 50 million extension respectively. I'd try to sign a PF like Ilyasova to a 2 year contract not worth more than 22 million with a player option after the first year. Then I'd use the room exception to sign a guy like David West or Mo Speights (4.3 million iirc should be enough, they are on minimum deals). Also I'd engineer a trade for Rozier for some minor assets to clear space for Fultz.
Lineup:
IT, Fultz, Jackson
Bradley, Smart, Young
Crowder, Brown, Green
Ilyasova, KO, Yabu
Horford, Zizic, West/Speights
Imo it is a deep team with a lot of young untapped talent that can develop and help us over the season with a good amount of proven vets that can contend.

That's a good team if your goal is being second place in the East. Kind of a logjam at guard. I can't see Danny paying Smart & Bradley longterm, especially if we draft a guard.

As for a the max free agent debate...can't pass up on a young all-star talent like Hayward if he's interested IMO. He's a great fit for this team... He's not as ball-dominant as Butler, and he's a good 3 point shooter, unlike Butler.

A core of IT/Hayward/Horford for the near future, along with JB/2017 pick/2018 pick for the longer term future, would keep the C's competitive for a long time. I doubt an IT/Hayward/Horford core is ever a serious championship contender (unless we trade for another star or one of our young guys takes off), but Hayward is young enough to fit into the second timeline with JB/2017/2018 as well.

I'll pass on Blake Griffin. He's always injured it seems, and he has some attitude concerns.

Millsap is too old for what he'll probably​ end up with, easy pass there.

[Somebody]

I'd draft Fultz, release Zeller, Amir, Jerebko and Mickey. I'd try to resign Gerald Green and James Young as our 3rd string wings. I'd then hand out Olynyk a 4 year 48 million contract (no increase by the years so it would be 12 million a year). Then I'd sign Bradley and Smart to a 4 year 76 million and a 4 year 50 million extension respectively. I'd try to sign a PF like Ilyasova to a 2 year contract not worth more than 22 million with a player option after the first year. Then I'd use the room exception to sign a guy like David West or Mo Speights (4.3 million iirc should be enough, they are on minimum deals). Also I'd engineer a trade for Rozier for some minor assets to clear space for Fultz.
Lineup:
IT, Fultz, Jackson
Bradley, Smart, Young
Crowder, Brown, Green
Ilyasova, KO, Yabu
Horford, Zizic, West/Speights
Imo it is a deep team with a lot of young untapped talent that can develop and help us over the season with a good amount of proven vets that can contend.

That's a good team if your goal is being second place in the East. Kind of a logjam at guard. I can't see Danny paying Smart & Bradley longterm, especially if we draft a guard.

As for a the max free agent debate...can't pass up on a young all-star talent like Hayward if he's interested IMO. He's a great fit for this team... He's not as ball-dominant as Butler, and he's a good 3 point shooter, unlike Butler.

A core of IT/Hayward/Horford for the near future, along with JB/2017 pick/2018 pick for the longer term future, would keep the C's competitive for a long time. I doubt an IT/Hayward/Horford core is ever a serious championship contender (unless we trade for another star or one of our young guys takes off), but Hayward is young enough to fit into the second timeline with JB/2017/2018 as well.

I'll pass on Blake Griffin. He's always injured it seems, and he has some attitude concerns.

Millsap is too old for what he'll probably​ end up with, easy pass there.

Honestly let's watch the playoffs first, imo we can get into the finals (very small chance but it's still possible). Also our young guys like Brown and Smart would improve and let's remind ourselves that Bradley, Crowder and KO are still 26 or 27 and still have some more room for improvement. I think with the addition of Fultz (who I think if he has the opportunity can put up numbers comparable to Irving and Wall in their rookie seasons) and good solid vets, we can be a contender.

[TheSundanceKid]

Glad you are coming around

For what you have to give up to get Hayward, you might as well talk about adding more and going for George. Ainge certainly had that in mind at the deadline. We'd have to see how the price changes of course.

For me:

1. Waive Mickey and Zeller. Release cap holds on Amir, JJ, Green, Young.
2. Renegotiate IT to the $25m max that he is eligible for. I believe that can be done without releasing KO.
3. Trade for George. We would need to match salary so Crowder, newly signed #1 pick, Yab, Jackson (I'll need to check numbers).
4. Re-sign KO.
5. Re-sign Green for vet min
6. Sign Nader

That would leave us with
IT/Smart/Rozier
Bradley/Brown
George/Green/Nader
Horford/KO
Zizic

11 players, we'd be able to fill out the roster with some vet bigs. Perhaps Amir comes cheaply, maybe we search for next year's Dedmon. Perhaps we find a way to get O'Quinn from NYK.

It's a pretty awesome lineup though. Still able to go small like we are at the moment and gives more size to it as well. Should also have a decent traditional lineup when needed.

The only hindrance to a George trade is his contract situation. He's an expiring. Do you know how many people would call for Ainge to get fired if he actually made that trade and then George went to La La Land for "free" a year later. 

Now of course we can hope George spends a year in Boston and loves it, or agrees to a long term commitment beforehand, but otherwise this is TOO risky (I get the "taking a chance" approach, but this would be a little extreme IMHO).

Yes the Celtic world would explode if that happened. However Kevin Love was meant to go to LA as a FA, so was Westbrook. Both stayed where they are. Until someone actually leaves a good situation for the hell hole in Staples center I'm not going to get concerned with it. It's exactly like Lebron being connected with New York in 2010, it's a big city so people are always linked.

[Celtics4ever]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

[TheSundanceKid]

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Let's return to this after the Cavs series and see what you say.

I'm not sure the Cavs series (if we get there) changes anything. Even adding Hayward to this team wouldn't equate us with them. We'd be very small and short of players at PF and C.

With or without Hayward we are a star player away from the Cavs. Because Hayward is not going to cause Lebron problems. Durant, Leonard, George, Butler, Giannis are the guys that can match up with Lebron. Two of them might be available this summer, George would be my favourite. And then if you ask me who I'd rather have alongside George, it would be Bradley not Hayward.

[PAOBoston]

The NBA is a rich get richer type of league. Build your core well and the underpaid vets will come. If we can get past the Wiz and give the Cavs a good fight, landing a Paul George will have talking heads thinking that we might have enough to dethrone them. The vets like Gerald Green will sign for less to play for a contender.

Yeah that's true. However getting a big star or not will most likely depend on our performance in the playoffs (honestly I hope we build organically)

Why do you think it is dependent on playoff success? The C's got knocked out in the first round last year and got Horford and were Durant's 2nd choice. I think if a player likes a place, they'll go there.

C's need to focus on adding another star type player to their core. Hayward is a choice/fit for obvious reasons (position, relationship with CBS, abilities). I think a core of IT/Hayward/Horford is pretty legit. I think Hayward would be a much bigger name had he played in a different market.

As far as role players, I'm not sure losing Jerebko/Amir/Green is a huge deal. Olynyk might be but it's hard to justify giving him a huge pay raise with how inconsistent he's been. You can find solid role players on the cheap. Plus you have your young guys (Brown, Rozier, Smart) who will continue to improve (hopefully). I'm not overly concerned how Crowder is going to feel if they sign Hayward because quite simply Jae Crowder isn't anywhere as good as Hayward. He's a 3 and D guy on a cheap deal and that's pretty much it.