Warming To The Idea That Not Signing A MAX-FA Would Be Wise

[Phantom255x]

I know that if we don't sign a max-FA, then we STILL wouldn't have enough cap space for a max-FA next summer (with rookie deals kicking in and other factors).

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Yes, that front court is not elite to begin with, but if we lose all of them, who do we have behind Horford/Zizic? Not much at all.

1. Pray for a #1 pick, draft someone (Fultz ideally, or Jackson/Tatum if pick outside #1)

2. Re-sign KO with Bird Rights

3. Use an MLE or another exception on someone like Amir, Jerebko, and/or a Taj Gibson-like free agent (A REBOUNDER) OR maybe package some future non-BKN Picks and some smaller pieces for a cheap, rebounding big?

4. Keep Gerald Green for fairly cheap

5. Maybe at least do some background on AB/Smart/IT extensions to get an idea heading into 2018

This way, at least third string centers won't keep embarrassing us out there, and this team is still going the "young, developing route" while simultaneously competing, and it doesn't "set us back" at all IMO. I think Step 3 is the biggie here, as the C's need to find some legitimate front court help especially when it comes to rebounding and defense.

Potential 2017-2018 Roster:

(PG): Isaiah/Smart/Rozier
(SG): Bradley/Green/Brown
(SF): Crowder/Brown/Nader(?)
(PF): Olynyk/(Amir OR Jerebko)/(FreeAgent)
(C): Horford/(FreeAgent)/Zizic

What do you guys think?

[Smokeeye123]

I know that if we don't sign a max-FA, then we STILL wouldn't have enough cap space for a max-FA next summer (with rookie deals kicking in and other factors).

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Yes, that front court is not elite to begin with, but if we lose all of them, who do we have behind Horford/Zizic? Not much at all.

1. Pray for a #1 pick, draft someone (Fultz ideally, or Jackson/Tatum if pick outside #1)

2. Re-sign KO with Bird Rights

3. Use an MLE or another exception on someone like Amir, Jerebko, and/or a Taj Gibson-like free agent (A REBOUNDER) OR maybe package some future non-BKN Picks and some smaller pieces for a cheap, rebounding big?

4. Keep Gerald Green for fairly cheap

5. Maybe at least do some background on AB/Smart/IT extensions to get an idea heading into 2018

This way, at least third string centers won't keep embarrassing us out there, and this team is still going the "young, developing route" while simultaneously competing, and it doesn't "set us back" at all IMO. I think Step 3 is the biggie here, as the C's need to find some legitimate front court help especially when it comes to rebounding and defense.

Potential 2017-2018 Roster:

(PG): Isaiah/Smart/Rozier
(SG): Bradley/Green/Brown
(SF): Crowder/Brown/Nader(?)
(PF): Olynyk/(Amir OR Jerebko)/(FreeAgent)
(C): Horford/(FreeAgent)/Zizic

What do you guys think?

I'd be for it if Hayward resigns with Utah. If Hayward is willing to come here I would let Olynyk, jerebko, and amir go and offer a near max. The league hasn't even announced what the cap will be next year so it's still possible we will have enough for a full max.

I would then trade Smart/Crowder/picks for a GOOD starting caliber PF. If we draft Fultz we can replace Smart with him and replace jae with hayward.

That team will be a borderline championship contender. I would say better than the Cavs, but Im not sure theyd be better than the Warriors even though the warriors will have no bench next season since they have to let all their role players go.

Regardless this offseason forces Danny's hand one way or another so it'd a very exciting time to be a celtics fan. Little chance we are not significantly better next season.

[Phantom255x]

I know that if we don't sign a max-FA, then we STILL wouldn't have enough cap space for a max-FA next summer (with rookie deals kicking in and other factors).

However, I think Hayward and Griffin are staying put, and EVEN if they test the waters, is either worth losing all of Olynyk/Zeller/Mickey/Jerebko/Amir, AND possibly Bradley/Smart via trade to make $$$ work?

Yes, that front court is not elite to begin with, but if we lose all of them, who do we have behind Horford/Zizic? Not much at all.

1. Pray for a #1 pick, draft someone (Fultz ideally, or Jackson/Tatum if pick outside #1)

2. Re-sign KO with Bird Rights

3. Use an MLE or another exception on someone like Amir, Jerebko, and/or a Taj Gibson-like free agent (A REBOUNDER) OR maybe package some future non-BKN Picks and some smaller pieces for a cheap, rebounding big?

4. Keep Gerald Green for fairly cheap

5. Maybe at least do some background on AB/Smart/IT extensions to get an idea heading into 2018

This way, at least third string centers won't keep embarrassing us out there, and this team is still going the "young, developing route" while simultaneously competing, and it doesn't "set us back" at all IMO. I think Step 3 is the biggie here, as the C's need to find some legitimate front court help especially when it comes to rebounding and defense.

Potential 2017-2018 Roster:

(PG): Isaiah/Smart/Rozier
(SG): Bradley/Green/Brown
(SF): Crowder/Brown/Nader(?)
(PF): Olynyk/(Amir OR Jerebko)/(FreeAgent)
(C): Horford/(FreeAgent)/Zizic

What do you guys think?

I'd be for it if Hayward resigns with Utah. If Hayward is willing to come here I would let Olynyk, jerebko, and amir go and offer a near max. The league hasn't even announced what the cap will be next year so it's still possible we will have enough for a full max.

I would then trade Smart/Crowder/picks for a GOOD starting caliber PF. If we draft Fultz we can replace Smart with him and replace jae with hayward.

That team will be a borderline championship contender. I would say better than the Cavs, but Im not sure theyd be better than the Warriors even though the warriors will have no bench next season since they have to let all their role players go.

I think the cap is set to be ~101M, or pretty much around that.

I'd hope Hayward would come here for a "near-max", but something tells me, like everyone, he'd want a full max which Utah can offer, so Ainge+Stevens will have to do some good convincing lol.

[jambr380]

If we are willing to let AB go for a future draft pick or even a player on a low rookie salary like Skal Labissiere, we are able to sign Hayward and also keep KO. You could then decide to keep Amir or JJ with the room exception if desired.

You would be able to add Zizic to the roster, but not Yabusele. Mickey, Zeller, Young would also be gone. Jackson maybe a goner, too, but that isn't a deal-breaker.

The ability to trade for another all-star would be limited since we would have two guys (Horford/Hayward) on monster salaries, one we just signed so he couldn't immediately be traded (Olynyk), and the rest on well-below market salaries and rookie/vet min contracts.

You could always wait a few months and use Olynyk/Crowder/picks as the framework of a deal, but letting go of Crowder would further obliterate our payroll after IT and Smart are signed next year, along with said trade target.

I do think it really comes down to AB vs. Hayward. Hayward will be paid a lot more this year, but AB should command ~$20M/yr next year. I think if Danny has the opportunity to sign Hayward, he will choose that route (along with acquiring another asset for AB), but I understand if you are in the camp of keeping our team together. It sucks to lose good, young players who have grown up in our system.

[TheSundanceKid]

Glad you are coming around

For what you have to give up to get Hayward, you might as well talk about adding more and going for George. Ainge certainly had that in mind at the deadline. We'd have to see how the price changes of course.

For me:

1. Waive Mickey and Zeller. Release cap holds on Amir, JJ, Green, Young.
2. Renegotiate IT to the $25m max that he is eligible for. I believe that can be done without releasing KO.
3. Trade for George. We would need to match salary so Crowder, newly signed #1 pick, Yab, Jackson (I'll need to check numbers).
4. Re-sign KO.
5. Re-sign Green for vet min
6. Sign Nader

That would leave us with
IT/Smart/Rozier
Bradley/Brown
George/Green/Nader
Horford/KO
Zizic

11 players, we'd be able to fill out the roster with some vet bigs. Perhaps Amir comes cheaply, maybe we search for next year's Dedmon. Perhaps we find a way to get O'Quinn from NYK.

It's a pretty awesome lineup though. Still able to go small like we are at the moment and gives more size to it as well. Should also have a decent traditional lineup when needed.

[Darío SpanishFan]

I keep saying Bradley's defense is essential for this team to be close to a ring. I don't want to lose him to get Hayward when we already have Crowder...

[td450]

The dilemma is that signing anyone significant requires that Ainge makes a quality trade to balance the roster and salaries. Getting pennies on the dollar for a core player or two negates the value of the signing. I want no part of getting Hayward or Griffin, but having to give away Bradley or Crowder for half price.

Guessing what such a trade would look like is pretty useless. No one has the slightest idea what will be available. I've scanned the list of the league's centers and power forwards many times. We would do well to keep Olynyk and hope Zizc and Yabusele pan out.

2018 looks like the best year for bigs in some time. We should continue to ascend with what we have. Another year or two and LeBron probably can't overcome our depth any more.

So yes, unless some other team is willing to do something stupid, I say sign a useful big for below $10M or do nothing.

What a horrible problem we have. While we were all wondering how we could get better players, the one's we have turned out to be what we needed all along.

[Phantom255x]

Glad you are coming around

For what you have to give up to get Hayward, you might as well talk about adding more and going for George. Ainge certainly had that in mind at the deadline. We'd have to see how the price changes of course.

For me:

1. Waive Mickey and Zeller. Release cap holds on Amir, JJ, Green, Young.
2. Renegotiate IT to the $25m max that he is eligible for. I believe that can be done without releasing KO.
3. Trade for George. We would need to match salary so Crowder, newly signed #1 pick, Yab, Jackson (I'll need to check numbers).
4. Re-sign KO.
5. Re-sign Green for vet min
6. Sign Nader

That would leave us with
IT/Smart/Rozier
Bradley/Brown
George/Green/Nader
Horford/KO
Zizic

11 players, we'd be able to fill out the roster with some vet bigs. Perhaps Amir comes cheaply, maybe we search for next year's Dedmon. Perhaps we find a way to get O'Quinn from NYK.

It's a pretty awesome lineup though. Still able to go small like we are at the moment and gives more size to it as well. Should also have a decent traditional lineup when needed.

The only hindrance to a George trade is his contract situation. He's an expiring. Do you know how many people would call for Ainge to get fired if he actually made that trade and then George went to La La Land for "free" a year later. 

Now of course we can hope George spends a year in Boston and loves it, or agrees to a long term commitment beforehand, but otherwise this is TOO risky (I get the "taking a chance" approach, but this would be a little extreme IMHO).

[mr. dee]

Signing Hayward or Griffin will only eat the cap space used for Amir, Jerebko, Zeller, Young, Mickey and possibly Olynyk. Once the team gets over the cap, they can still resign IT for max, AB around 15-17m and Smart with Crowder money as long as the management is willing to pay luxury tax.

Cap projection will increase, even if its just incremental.

[Fireworks_Boom!]

There are many paths we could take, but IMO the most logical/likely:

We luck out and see ping pong balls fall our way and land #1 pick (Draft Fultz).

We convince Gordon Hayward to rejoin with CBS. Yes we'd have to figure out moving parts with contracts but Wyc will go into luxury to keep right pieces in place.

We also need to remember we have a lot of young developing players coming up in Nader (who could fill loss of Jerebko), Yabusele and Zizic who both could fill needs we don't have a solution for currently (rebounding/banging/shot-blocking).

I mean, we could go seriously deep this year without these 5 additions. Imagine what we could do with them?

[MattyIce]

Signing Hayward or Griffin will only eat the cap space used for Amir, Jerebko, Zeller, Young, Mickey and possibly Olynyk. Once the team gets over the cap, they can still resign IT for max, AB around 15-17m and Smart with Crowder money as long as the management is willing to pay luxury tax.

Cap projection will increase, even if its just incremental.

i dont see any way AB only takes that much...but i'm also warming to the thread idea

[More Banners]

I say get the best starting 5 you can get, then run from there.  Play the young stars in training, e.g. Brown, off the bench for rotation regular minutes. I think Rozier can handle 15 min. behind IT, and Jaylen can backup both wing spots next year. Horford starts at C. Crowder can start at F, and yes, I get the best F I can sign with whatever I can pay. I look to trade Smart/Crowder for an upgrade at the SF or PF spots; and include Rozier if we draft a potential star PG. Rozier/Smart/Crowder, and picks looks like a package for Melo. 


I wonder if we could get both Rudy Gay and keep KO? 

I'll take a win now starting 5 and an all youth rotation bench into the season, and adjust as necessary. Keep all the salary at 1-5, with 6-10 on rookie deals. Rozier, Smart, Brown make a good start. If Yabu and Zizic can play 15 minutes, we might pull it out depending on this draft.

I just see next year as punting on long term decisions on contracts and just put th best team together you can. It's the last year of the bargain Bradley and Thomas contracts and Smarts last on his rookie deal. Spend it up to give everyone the best shot they can together.

[PAOBoston]

It would be an utter travesty if the C's don't add another star. Get the star player. Worry about then bench later.

[JBcat]

Well if we don't sign a max player the key would be if we could sign someone that could be an upgrade over possibly Crowder or probably more importantly Amir Johnson while not renouncing everyone we needed to for a max player.

Some candidates could be Ibaka, Randolph, Gay, Gallinari, even someone like Bogut if healthy could help our team.

I think it could be real problem if we sign Hayward, lose Kelly/Amir/Jerebko/Zeller and our front court depth could be very thin, and small.  You could make the argument though you could then trade  Crowder and say Rozier for a starting power forward, but you would have to think of who would that be.  Maybe a young PF like Randle as an example.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Completely agree, especially considering that Crowder is on such a team friendly contract long term. If we were to sign Griffin, George or Hayward it would force out someone like Bradley, Rozier, Smart and decimate our depth in the process. The best example of this is the Clippers, Doc wasted their picks on throw aways and over payed on unworthy players....and they have yet to make a Conference Finals. If the team truely believes in Brown you don't sign a long term max player in front of him either, Crowder's deal finishes right when Brown will be reaching his peak. Replacing JJ, Young, AJ, Mickey with better contributors (especially in rebounding) can push us to the next level.

I honestly believe if Sully is desperate enough we can get him for essentially nothing and he is already accustomed to Brad's system and given the right stipulations (Boris Diaw fat provision) can help us on the boards. Future off contract guys like; PJ Tucker, Dewayne Dedmon, Taj Gibson, Aron Baynes, Joe Ingles, Andrew Bogut, could all be valuable upgrades this offseason for the right price.