Good idea or bad idea: sign Paul Millsap in the offseason

[ThePaintedArea]

Only major UFA signing for this upcoming offseason

Lets say he is down to sign a 2 year deal with player option  (23 million per year...for 69 million in total) ...  a little discount to join the Celts

Would you be for or against this move?  (If for the move... what about the cap situation needing space to sign AB, IT4 etc..)

For it. Great fit. He's a difference-maker. I'm not interested enough in salary cap rules to judge about the money.

Feel sorry for Atlanta if it happens, and for the league - it helps all teams if you can build a contender anywhere, hurts all teams if savvy management and team-building is negated. Atlanta is a baseball/football town...

[hwangjini_1]

Only major UFA signing for this upcoming offseason

Lets say he is down to sign a 2 year deal with player option  (23 million per year...for 69 million in total) ...  a little discount to join the Celts

Would you be for or against this move?  (If for the move... what about the cap situation needing space to sign AB, IT4 etc..)

How much better would the Celtics be?

How would a lineup of Horford, Millsap, Crowder, AB, IT4 differ from a Hawks lineup that won 60 games a few seasons ago?

Millsap is a stud and has been for years, but we don't need a 4.  We need a 5.

it might be helpful to our discussions if we keep in mind that CBS does not think of the team in terms of a 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

CBS thinks of players as ball handlers, swings, wings, and bigs. he loves to have players switch positions on offense and defense. this, i think, is one of the keys to his space and pace game plans.
 

[ThePaintedArea]

Only major UFA signing for this upcoming offseason

Lets say he is down to sign a 2 year deal with player option  (23 million per year...for 69 million in total) ...  a little discount to join the Celts

Would you be for or against this move?  (If for the move... what about the cap situation needing space to sign AB, IT4 etc..)

How much better would the Celtics be?

How would a lineup of Horford, Millsap, Crowder, AB, IT4 differ from a Hawks lineup that won 60 games a few seasons ago?

Millsap is a stud and has been for years, but we don't need a 4.  We need a 5.

it might be helpful to our discussions if we keep in mind that CBS does not think of the team in terms of a 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

CBS thinks of players as ball handlers, swings, wings, and bigs. he loves to have players switch positions on offense and defense. this, i think, is one of the keys to his space and pace game plans.

Excellent point. But Millsap is not going to be guarding Gortat/Cousins/Towns... for any length of time.  On the other hand, I'd say that on defense Horford and Olynyk are best utilized as "5's". By the old system, I would not agree that Boston needs a 5 - they need a 4, and they need one of the top players in the league. Millsap checks both boxes.

[KGs Knee]

One thing to consider is that KO, IT, Smart and Avery all have contracts expiring within the next two years.  If we add another max or near max deal, two and possibly three of that group will have to go.  And we could be looking to add Zizic, Yabu and Nader.

Should we target guys like Ibaka, Taj Gibson and Ersan Iylasova?  If you go after them right away before the market thins out, we might be able to get a player on that level for half what Milsap might cost.

Mike

Ibaka's going to get a huge contract from the Raptors, Gibson's a fine player in his own right but isn't half as versatile as Millsap and is functionally the same age, and Illyasova doesn't even belong in this conversation. There are real reasons to have some trepidation about making the kind of offer to Millsap that it would take to get him, but "we could sign Ersan Illyasova instead" isn't one of them.

It's not just a question of talent.  Salary issues also have to be considered, both immediately and longer term.  As has been mentioned before, give a max deal to Milsap or anyone and you immediately lose Amir, Jerebko, Green and KO but resigning IT, Avery AND Smart also becomes almost impossible.  At worst you might only be able to keep one.

Look at the Warriors.  To resign both Curry and Durant is going to cost them virtually their entire bench.  Maybe Iguodala agrees to stay for peanuts because he's already made so much money but who else is going to give up not millions but 10s of millions of dollars?  They're still going to be great but I don't think people understand that the gap between GSW and the rest of the league will close considerably as soon as next year.

The question isn't "Is Iylasova better than Milsap?"  It's whether Iylasova, KO, IT, Avery and Smart are better than just Milsap and IT.

Mike

Totally different situations.

Boston can go over the salary cap to re-sign any of Thomas, Bradley, or Smart. We have their full bird rights. The only concern would be do the owners want to pay the luxury tax.

Golden St does not have full bird right on Durant, so they can only offer 120% of his previous salary, or they have to use cap space to sign him. They do have full bird rights on Curry, but that is irrelevant to signing Durant.

[Bobshot]

Millsap is the player they need up front. He and Horford played very well together on an Atlanta team that wasn't as good as Boston's current team. He would make a bigger difference, in my view than some of the smaller "star" 3s  being talked about. The only issue is he's getting up there with age, and his contract length would be a factor.

Stevens may be a coaching guru, but he can't hide their rebounding deficiencies against the elite teams.

[action781]

I like the idea of bringing in Millsap.  The way the NBA game is trending smaller and with Horford's addition of the 3 point shot, they are a better frontcourt combo now than they were when ATL was a 60 win team.  That along with a better supporting cast in place makes us a very solid team (conference contenders) in the present, while not giving up assets for the future.

[wiley]

Millsap might make a great mentor to Yabusele.  We need a PF, even if KO is resigned.  Griffin or Millsap good options if not via trade.  Stevens doesn't wear guys out during the regular season...a good team for aging vets like Horford and Millsap.  Millsap probably more durable than Griffin despite being older. 

[bogg]

One thing to consider is that KO, IT, Smart and Avery all have contracts expiring within the next two years.  If we add another max or near max deal, two and possibly three of that group will have to go.  And we could be looking to add Zizic, Yabu and Nader.

Should we target guys like Ibaka, Taj Gibson and Ersan Iylasova?  If you go after them right away before the market thins out, we might be able to get a player on that level for half what Milsap might cost.

Mike

Ibaka's going to get a huge contract from the Raptors, Gibson's a fine player in his own right but isn't half as versatile as Millsap and is functionally the same age, and Illyasova doesn't even belong in this conversation. There are real reasons to have some trepidation about making the kind of offer to Millsap that it would take to get him, but "we could sign Ersan Illyasova instead" isn't one of them.

It's not just a question of talent.  Salary issues also have to be considered, both immediately and longer term.  As has been mentioned before, give a max deal to Milsap or anyone and you immediately lose Amir, Jerebko, Green and KO but resigning IT, Avery AND Smart also becomes almost impossible.  At worst you might only be able to keep one.

Look at the Warriors.  To resign both Curry and Durant is going to cost them virtually their entire bench.  Maybe Iguodala agrees to stay for peanuts because he's already made so much money but who else is going to give up not millions but 10s of millions of dollars?  They're still going to be great but I don't think people understand that the gap between GSW and the rest of the league will close considerably as soon as next year.

The question isn't "Is Iylasova better than Milsap?"  It's whether Iylasova, KO, IT, Avery and Smart are better than just Milsap and IT.

Mike

I don't know how much you expect Millsap to make on his next contract, but it's going to be less than the combined total of all of Kelly, Marcus, Avery, and Ilyasova's next deals. Kelly's going to wind up playing himself into a pretty healthy contract in his own right, and Boston probably can't pay all three of Isaiah/Avery/Marcus (or, more likely, both of Marcus/Avery) while also fielding a decent frontcourt, so it's more like whether Millsap is preferable to Olynyk and an Ilyasova-level signing, which.....he might be. Again, I get being leery of giving a four-year deal to a guy his age, but Boston doesn't really need more value buys on guys who are rotation-quality, they need high-end talent. Millsap plays a position of need and just averaged 24 and 9 (with 4 assists) against Boston's current second-round opponent. I'd at least give him a look.

[Ilikesports17]

One thing to consider is that KO, IT, Smart and Avery all have contracts expiring within the next two years.  If we add another max or near max deal, two and possibly three of that group will have to go.  And we could be looking to add Zizic, Yabu and Nader.

Should we target guys like Ibaka, Taj Gibson and Ersan Iylasova?  If you go after them right away before the market thins out, we might be able to get a player on that level for half what Milsap might cost.

Mike

Ibaka's going to get a huge contract from the Raptors, Gibson's a fine player in his own right but isn't half as versatile as Millsap and is functionally the same age, and Illyasova doesn't even belong in this conversation. There are real reasons to have some trepidation about making the kind of offer to Millsap that it would take to get him, but "we could sign Ersan Illyasova instead" isn't one of them.

It's not just a question of talent.  Salary issues also have to be considered, both immediately and longer term.  As has been mentioned before, give a max deal to Milsap or anyone and you immediately lose Amir, Jerebko, Green and KO but resigning IT, Avery AND Smart also becomes almost impossible.  At worst you might only be able to keep one.

Look at the Warriors.  To resign both Curry and Durant is going to cost them virtually their entire bench.  Maybe Iguodala agrees to stay for peanuts because he's already made so much money but who else is going to give up not millions but 10s of millions of dollars?  They're still going to be great but I don't think people understand that the gap between GSW and the rest of the league will close considerably as soon as next year.

The question isn't "Is Iylasova better than Milsap?"  It's whether Iylasova, KO, IT, Avery and Smart are better than just Milsap and IT.

Mike

I don't know how much you expect Millsap to make on his next contract, but it's going to be less than the combined total of all of Kelly, Marcus, Avery, and Ilyasova's next deals. Kelly's going to wind up playing himself into a pretty healthy contract in his own right, and Boston probably can't pay all three of Isaiah/Avery/Marcus (or, more likely, both of Marcus/Avery) while also fielding a decent frontcourt, so it's more like whether Millsap is preferable to Olynyk and an Ilyasova-level signing, which.....he might be. Again, I get being leery of giving a four-year deal to a guy his age, but Boston doesn't really need more value buys on guys who are rotation-quality, they need high-end talent. Millsap plays a position of need and just averaged 24 and 9 (with 4 assists) against Boston's current second-round opponent. I'd at least give him a look.

yeah, Millsap's max would be 4/153, so 38 mil a year. Thats expensive, but Illyasova makes at the least 8 mil, Kelly will be making 10+ Marcus will be 15 or more and AB makes no less than 18.

I think those are all minimum estimates and its still 38-51

[crimson_stallion]

Good lord no.

The Millsap / Horford experiment already failed in Atlanta, why on earth would you try to duplicate it here? 

Our team is way too short as it is, the last thing we want is to spend $30M to bring in a 6'7" PF - that's just ludicrous.  We're already getting slaughtered on the boards, and while Millsap is a better rebuild then Horford he is still not a stellar one.  Millsap is a nice player no doubt, but he doesn't fit our needs. 

We need a proper big with legit size who can dominate the boards, dominate the paint, and defend skilled 7 footers.

[bogg]

One thing to consider is that KO, IT, Smart and Avery all have contracts expiring within the next two years.  If we add another max or near max deal, two and possibly three of that group will have to go.  And we could be looking to add Zizic, Yabu and Nader.

Should we target guys like Ibaka, Taj Gibson and Ersan Iylasova?  If you go after them right away before the market thins out, we might be able to get a player on that level for half what Milsap might cost.

Mike

Ibaka's going to get a huge contract from the Raptors, Gibson's a fine player in his own right but isn't half as versatile as Millsap and is functionally the same age, and Illyasova doesn't even belong in this conversation. There are real reasons to have some trepidation about making the kind of offer to Millsap that it would take to get him, but "we could sign Ersan Illyasova instead" isn't one of them.

It's not just a question of talent.  Salary issues also have to be considered, both immediately and longer term.  As has been mentioned before, give a max deal to Milsap or anyone and you immediately lose Amir, Jerebko, Green and KO but resigning IT, Avery AND Smart also becomes almost impossible.  At worst you might only be able to keep one.

Look at the Warriors.  To resign both Curry and Durant is going to cost them virtually their entire bench.  Maybe Iguodala agrees to stay for peanuts because he's already made so much money but who else is going to give up not millions but 10s of millions of dollars?  They're still going to be great but I don't think people understand that the gap between GSW and the rest of the league will close considerably as soon as next year.

The question isn't "Is Iylasova better than Milsap?"  It's whether Iylasova, KO, IT, Avery and Smart are better than just Milsap and IT.

Mike

I don't know how much you expect Millsap to make on his next contract, but it's going to be less than the combined total of all of Kelly, Marcus, Avery, and Ilyasova's next deals. Kelly's going to wind up playing himself into a pretty healthy contract in his own right, and Boston probably can't pay all three of Isaiah/Avery/Marcus (or, more likely, both of Marcus/Avery) while also fielding a decent frontcourt, so it's more like whether Millsap is preferable to Olynyk and an Ilyasova-level signing, which.....he might be. Again, I get being leery of giving a four-year deal to a guy his age, but Boston doesn't really need more value buys on guys who are rotation-quality, they need high-end talent. Millsap plays a position of need and just averaged 24 and 9 (with 4 assists) against Boston's current second-round opponent. I'd at least give him a look.

yeah, Millsap's max would be 4/153, so 38 mil a year. Thats expensive, but Illyasova makes at the least 8 mil, Kelly will be making 10+ Marcus will be 15 or more and AB makes no less than 18.

I think those are all minimum estimates and its still 38-51

Boston won't be able to offer Millsap that max contract. If I recall, very roughly speaking, they can reasonably just about get to the second-tier max, starting around $30 million, but anything more than that requires them to lose core guys to open up salary spots. Boston most likely comes to the table with Millsap offering a deal starting at $30 million a year, his old frontcourt partner, and a team with a chance at contending, and it winds up being take it or leave it for him.

[Ilikesports17]

Good lord no.

The Millsap / Horford experiment already failed in Atlanta, why on earth would you try to duplicate it here? 

Our team is way too short as it is, the last thing we want is to spend $30M to bring in a 6'7" PF - that's just ludicrous.  We're already getting slaughtered on the boards, and while Millsap is a better rebuild then Horford he is still not a stellar one.  Millsap is a nice player no doubt, but he doesn't fit our needs. 

We need a proper big with legit size who can dominate the boards, dominate the paint, and defend skilled 7 footers.

Millsap improves our rebounding. Hed improve our defense.

Horford/Millsap wasnt exactly the problem with Atlanta.

We are way better than any of those Atlanta teams 1-3 and then the kicker: we have a top 3 pick and a top 4 pick on the way. Atlanta never had that.

[bogg]

Good lord no.

The Millsap / Horford experiment already failed in Atlanta, why on earth would you try to duplicate it here? 

Our team is way too short as it is, the last thing we want is to spend $30M to bring in a 6'7" PF - that's just ludicrous.  We're already getting slaughtered on the boards, and while Millsap is a better rebuild then Horford he is still not a stellar one.  Millsap is a nice player no doubt, but he doesn't fit our needs. 

We need a proper big with legit size who can dominate the boards, dominate the paint, and defend skilled 7 footers.

Dwight Howard's available, he's already complaining about his role in Atlanta. Other than that, Alex Len is an RFA and the Wiz would probably give Ian Mahinmi away to get out from under his contract. That's the problem - the market on huge space-eaters is really thin and none are great fits in Boston's system. You're better off trying to take the foundation of Atlanta's most recent run and making them supporting-cast guys for (hopefully) Isaiah and another all-star than you are trying to be the second coming of Grit N Grind.

[MBunge]

One thing to consider is that KO, IT, Smart and Avery all have contracts expiring within the next two years.  If we add another max or near max deal, two and possibly three of that group will have to go.  And we could be looking to add Zizic, Yabu and Nader.

Should we target guys like Ibaka, Taj Gibson and Ersan Iylasova?  If you go after them right away before the market thins out, we might be able to get a player on that level for half what Milsap might cost.

Mike

Ibaka's going to get a huge contract from the Raptors, Gibson's a fine player in his own right but isn't half as versatile as Millsap and is functionally the same age, and Illyasova doesn't even belong in this conversation. There are real reasons to have some trepidation about making the kind of offer to Millsap that it would take to get him, but "we could sign Ersan Illyasova instead" isn't one of them.

It's not just a question of talent.  Salary issues also have to be considered, both immediately and longer term.  As has been mentioned before, give a max deal to Milsap or anyone and you immediately lose Amir, Jerebko, Green and KO but resigning IT, Avery AND Smart also becomes almost impossible.  At worst you might only be able to keep one.

Look at the Warriors.  To resign both Curry and Durant is going to cost them virtually their entire bench.  Maybe Iguodala agrees to stay for peanuts because he's already made so much money but who else is going to give up not millions but 10s of millions of dollars?  They're still going to be great but I don't think people understand that the gap between GSW and the rest of the league will close considerably as soon as next year.

The question isn't "Is Iylasova better than Milsap?"  It's whether Iylasova, KO, IT, Avery and Smart are better than just Milsap and IT.

Mike

Totally different situations.

Boston can go over the salary cap to re-sign any of Thomas, Bradley, or Smart. We have their full bird rights. The only concern would be do the owners want to pay the luxury tax.

Golden St does not have full bird right on Durant, so they can only offer 120% of his previous salary, or they have to use cap space to sign him. They do have full bird rights on Curry, but that is irrelevant to signing Durant.

Not having Durant's Bird rights is the point.  To open up max salary space, GSW has to renounce all of their free agents except Curry.  If they resign both Durant and Curry to max deals, they'll then have only a few million under the salary cap.

Mike

[crimson_stallion]

Millsap isn't a star he is overrated and overpaid

He scored 31 pts yesterday..

One game - so what?

For the season he averaged barely more points then Avery Bradley, and his percentages weren't much better either.

18.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG on 44% FG, 31% 3PT, 77% FT.

Nice numbers on their own, but extremely mediocre numbers as a return on a $35M investment. 

You're completely out of your mind if you  even contemplate paying $35M a year to a 32 year old, 6'7" PF putting up those kinds of numbers.