Author Topic: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?  (Read 6721 times)

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Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2017, 07:28:02 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I don't see the need to change things but I don't think Green in the lineup makes sense.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2017, 09:46:32 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

I'm comfortable with continuing to start Green in game 1.  Our offense and rebounding with Green in the starting lineup was a plus, or at minimum acceptable.  What does concern me about that is having two negative defenders in IT and Green on the floor at the same time, which may not work as well against Washington as it did the Bulls.  I like JJ as much as anyone, but I think it's too tall of an order to put him into the starting lineup and ask him to produce like a starter.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2017, 09:51:43 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

They don't run Porter too often as a screener. Instead, they usually use Morris or Gortat, which allows Porter to spot up and space the floor. Having Porter as a screener hurts there spacing, especially when they use Beal as a ball-handler in high PNR's.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2017, 09:56:47 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

They don't run Porter too often as a screener. Instead, they usually use Morris or Gortat, which allows Porter to spot up and space the floor. Having Porter as a screener hurts there spacing, especially when they use Beal as a ball-handler in high PNR's.

In the playoffs coaches often make this adjustment though in order to get a favorable matchup.  Maybe they'll have Porter pick and pop instead of rolling, where he'll just end up crowding the paint next to Gortat.

Admittedly I haven't watched Washington besides the games they played against us, so I'm just taking a best guess.  I'd be shocked if they don't exploit IT's defensive weakness however, since he's the biggest mismatch defensively in the entire NBA.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2017, 10:02:34 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

They don't run Porter too often as a screener. Instead, they usually use Morris or Gortat, which allows Porter to spot up and space the floor. Having Porter as a screener hurts there spacing, especially when they use Beal as a ball-handler in high PNR's.

In the playoffs coaches often make this adjustment though in order to get a favorable matchup.  Maybe they'll have Porter pick and pop instead of rolling, where he'll just end up crowding the paint next to Gortat.

Admittedly I haven't watched Washington besides the games they played against us, so I'm just taking a best guess.  I'd be shocked if they don't exploit IT's defensive weakness however, since he's the biggest mismatch defensively in the entire NBA.

I'd be down for that. I also like the fact that this cross-matchup will often carry over to the other end. Many times Porter will find himself on Thomas, since it's impossible to always switch when being defended by a player.

I expect a heavy dose of Gortat being exploited in a high PNR's. He, like Lopez, isn't the best defender in space due to his slow feet. 

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2017, 10:25:56 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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the bench will either win or lose us this series...Washington's bench is pretty weak.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2017, 10:32:36 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

They don't run Porter too often as a screener. Instead, they usually use Morris or Gortat, which allows Porter to spot up and space the floor. Having Porter as a screener hurts there spacing, especially when they use Beal as a ball-handler in high PNR's.

In the playoffs coaches often make this adjustment though in order to get a favorable matchup.  Maybe they'll have Porter pick and pop instead of rolling, where he'll just end up crowding the paint next to Gortat.

Admittedly I haven't watched Washington besides the games they played against us, so I'm just taking a best guess.  I'd be shocked if they don't exploit IT's defensive weakness however, since he's the biggest mismatch defensively in the entire NBA.

I'd be down for that. I also like the fact that this cross-matchup will often carry over to the other end. Many times Porter will find himself on Thomas, since it's impossible to always switch when being defended by a player.

I expect a heavy dose of Gortat being exploited in a high PNR's. He, like Lopez, isn't the best defender in space due to his slow feet.

True, both good points.  Basically comes down to getting Porter, while being a good player, involved more than Washington would like. 

The bolded was one of the major keys to getting Lopez less floor time after killing us in games 1 and 2.


Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2017, 11:17:03 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

I'm comfortable with continuing to start Green in game 1.  Our offense and rebounding with Green in the starting lineup was a plus, or at minimum acceptable.  What does concern me about that is having two negative defenders in IT and Green on the floor at the same time, which may not work as well against Washington as it did the Bulls.  I like JJ as much as anyone, but I think it's too tall of an order to put him into the starting lineup and ask him to produce like a starter.

I mean, he did it last year in the Atlanta series, so why couldn't he do it again?

JJ is one of those guys who plays so much better with a limited role in the starting lineup than a larger role with the bench, similar to how Brown was this year. And he's actually a perfect matchup for Morris. Morris really likes to iso-post up his defender and shoot over them with the turn-around jumpshot, especially smaller defenders, and that's how he takes advantage of his position. But JJ is just as big and long, if not bigger and longer, than Morris, and he has the requisite foot speed, mobility, and athleticism to deal with him off the dribble and out on the perimeter. And when you consider JJ's shooting ability and the fact that he's really only going to be asked to defend, rebound, set good screens, and hit the open shot, I don't see why the moment would be too big for him, especially after he did the exact same thing last year in the playoffs.

I just think both Green and Crowder are too small to share the starting lineup together. JJ gives you the extra height and length that Amir would give you, while also giving you the shooting and spacing the Green would provide.

I also like the idea of putting IT on Porter, which I suggested early in the thread, too. But I'd put AB on Wall and Crowder on Beal. Strangely, the Chicago series was actually an outlier with AB. Usually, AB really struggles with bigger, iso-heavy mid-range pull-up guys like Butler, Derozan, etc., but he does really well with speedy guys like Wall, Kemba, Irving, etc. If he can limit himself with the fouls and stay out of foul trouble, he's probably our best bet on Wall. Crowder isn't as ideal as AB or Smart on Beal, but he can still cover him, though he has to step up his defense from what he showed against Chicago.

Ultimately, I expect Brad will continue to start Green, for better or worse. I think that just creates two mismatches for the Wiz in the starting lineup, but it will also give us mismatches on the other end. So it might work. But Horford should have an even better series against Gortat than he did in the Chicago series. He should really take advantage of that matchup out on the perimeter where Gortat simply can't guard.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2017, 11:37:44 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

I'm comfortable with continuing to start Green in game 1.  Our offense and rebounding with Green in the starting lineup was a plus, or at minimum acceptable.  What does concern me about that is having two negative defenders in IT and Green on the floor at the same time, which may not work as well against Washington as it did the Bulls.  I like JJ as much as anyone, but I think it's too tall of an order to put him into the starting lineup and ask him to produce like a starter.

I mean, he did it last year in the Atlanta series, so why couldn't he do it again?

JJ is one of those guys who plays so much better with a limited role in the starting lineup than a larger role with the bench, similar to how Brown was this year. And he's actually a perfect matchup for Morris. Morris really likes to iso-post up his defender and shoot over them with the turn-around jumpshot, especially smaller defenders, and that's how he takes advantage of his position. But JJ is just as big and long, if not bigger and longer, than Morris, and he has the requisite foot speed, mobility, and athleticism to deal with him off the dribble and out on the perimeter. And when you consider JJ's shooting ability and the fact that he's really only going to be asked to defend, rebound, set good screens, and hit the open shot, I don't see why the moment would be too big for him, especially after he did the exact same thing last year in the playoffs.

I just think both Green and Crowder are too small to share the starting lineup together. JJ gives you the extra height and length that Amir would give you, while also giving you the shooting and spacing the Green would provide.

I also like the idea of putting IT on Porter, which I suggested early in the thread, too. But I'd put AB on Wall and Crowder on Beal. Strangely, the Chicago series was actually an outlier with AB. Usually, AB really struggles with bigger, iso-heavy mid-range pull-up guys like Butler, Derozan, etc., but he does really well with speedy guys like Wall, Kemba, Irving, etc. If he can limit himself with the fouls and stay out of foul trouble, he's probably our best bet on Wall. Crowder isn't as ideal as AB or Smart on Beal, but he can still cover him, though he has to step up his defense from what he showed against Chicago.

Ultimately, I expect Brad will continue to start Green, for better or worse. I think that just creates two mismatches for the Wiz in the starting lineup, but it will also give us mismatches on the other end. So it might work. But Horford should have an even better series against Gortat than he did in the Chicago series. He should really take advantage of that matchup out on the perimeter where Gortat simply can't guard.

I like JJ defensively over Green for sure.  I suppose the major gamble of starting Green over JJ is if Morris manages to exploit that matchup and gets going early in the 1st or 3rd quarter, and then becomes an additional threat beyond Wall and Beal that we need to account for especially heading into the 4th.

But on the other hand, Green gives us a major scoring threat that can't be replaced by JJ.  JJ is a liability every time he tries to put the ball on the floor and doesn't function nearly as well as a slasher when compared to Green.  I'm a defense first kind of guy, but I'm willing to sacrifice JJ's defensive versatility for Green's threat on offense, seeing as (1) how Washington will rely primarily on Wall and Beal taking the majority of the offensive load and (2) how the C's have gone through major offensive droughts against the Bulls.

I expect a lot of small ball in this series.  I think JJ will have his time, but not in the starting lineup.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2017, 01:13:42 AM »

Offline feckless

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Amir starts, just as he has done all season, until/unless a change is necessitated because of match-ups.

Gerald starting was specific to Chicago's big men.
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Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2017, 02:32:18 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Eddie, the starting lineup is interesting but it will have trouble scoring IMO

about IT on Porter, Porter is 203 cm, the height disparity seems  too big to me

Yeah, Porter is 6-9 and has a long wingspan. However, he has no post-up game. He's similar to Crowder who needs to be facing the basket no matter who's defending him and can't take advantage of a mismatch. That said, I would welcome the Wizards try to take advantage of Porter inside. That would completely disrupt their offensive gameplan and force them to play a style they have never played. Besides, would Wall and Beal be willing passers? Or would they still try to get theirs? Knowing their style I would guess the latter.
He also doesn't drive to the hoop. Thomas would just have to hop up and down trying to bother his spot-ups. I find that preferable to IT getting rolled over by either Beal or Wall all series, which he absolutely would.

That's my mindset too. Let's force Porter to beat us and do so in a way that he's uncomfortable doing.

Here's an image of Thomas next to Porter. Obviously the height disparity is great, but it's not undoable. Thomas fronting a posting Porter, while Horford is doubling off Gortat from the weakside to defend the entry pass is my thinking.

Is Porter going to be uncomfortable when he's shooting 3s over a player a foot shorter than him?  Is he going to be uncomfortable cutting to the basket while guarded by IT?  If they do post him, how many offensive rebounds are going to be given up with Horford having to board against Porter and Gortat?  If I'm the Wizards, I go after IT no matter who he is guarding.  They aren't going to win if they let IT coast on defense.

If the Wizards make Porter the focal point of their offense, then I like our chances to advance. Letting Thomas get torched vs Wall and/or Beal is not a recipe for success. Rather put him on a weaker offensive player that will be asked to do something he's unaccustomed to doing.

Agree.  But a simple 1-3 pick and roll gets IT back on Wall since the C's like to switch, unless they change up their strategy (have IT hedge) when the 1-3 pick and roll comes.  Does it make more sense to have IT on Wall, and hope that Wall gets iso heavy (much like the Brooks OKC model was, where Harden, Durant, and Westbrook would basically just take turns running iso) due to advantageous matchup and elects not to move the ball around?  Or will they simply just try to attack IT on switches to get him on Wall or Beal to get the favorable matchup that way?  I guess we'll see.

I'm comfortable with continuing to start Green in game 1.  Our offense and rebounding with Green in the starting lineup was a plus, or at minimum acceptable.  What does concern me about that is having two negative defenders in IT and Green on the floor at the same time, which may not work as well against Washington as it did the Bulls.  I like JJ as much as anyone, but I think it's too tall of an order to put him into the starting lineup and ask him to produce like a starter.

I mean, he did it last year in the Atlanta series, so why couldn't he do it again?

JJ is one of those guys who plays so much better with a limited role in the starting lineup than a larger role with the bench, similar to how Brown was this year. And he's actually a perfect matchup for Morris. Morris really likes to iso-post up his defender and shoot over them with the turn-around jumpshot, especially smaller defenders, and that's how he takes advantage of his position. But JJ is just as big and long, if not bigger and longer, than Morris, and he has the requisite foot speed, mobility, and athleticism to deal with him off the dribble and out on the perimeter. And when you consider JJ's shooting ability and the fact that he's really only going to be asked to defend, rebound, set good screens, and hit the open shot, I don't see why the moment would be too big for him, especially after he did the exact same thing last year in the playoffs.

I just think both Green and Crowder are too small to share the starting lineup together. JJ gives you the extra height and length that Amir would give you, while also giving you the shooting and spacing the Green would provide.

I also like the idea of putting IT on Porter, which I suggested early in the thread, too. But I'd put AB on Wall and Crowder on Beal. Strangely, the Chicago series was actually an outlier with AB. Usually, AB really struggles with bigger, iso-heavy mid-range pull-up guys like Butler, Derozan, etc., but he does really well with speedy guys like Wall, Kemba, Irving, etc. If he can limit himself with the fouls and stay out of foul trouble, he's probably our best bet on Wall. Crowder isn't as ideal as AB or Smart on Beal, but he can still cover him, though he has to step up his defense from what he showed against Chicago.

Ultimately, I expect Brad will continue to start Green, for better or worse. I think that just creates two mismatches for the Wiz in the starting lineup, but it will also give us mismatches on the other end. So it might work. But Horford should have an even better series against Gortat than he did in the Chicago series. He should really take advantage of that matchup out on the perimeter where Gortat simply can't guard.

I like JJ defensively over Green for sure.  I suppose the major gamble of starting Green over JJ is if Morris manages to exploit that matchup and gets going early in the 1st or 3rd quarter, and then becomes an additional threat beyond Wall and Beal that we need to account for especially heading into the 4th.

But on the other hand, Green gives us a major scoring threat that can't be replaced by JJ.  JJ is a liability every time he tries to put the ball on the floor and doesn't function nearly as well as a slasher when compared to Green.  I'm a defense first kind of guy, but I'm willing to sacrifice JJ's defensive versatility for Green's threat on offense, seeing as (1) how Washington will rely primarily on Wall and Beal taking the majority of the offensive load and (2) how the C's have gone through major offensive droughts against the Bulls.

I expect a lot of small ball in this series.  I think JJ will have his time, but not in the starting lineup.
Why can't Green guard Porter and Crowder guard Morris? I don't know a lot about Morris but he strikes me as a Milsap type of guy, which Jae can guard. That way our only real mismatch would be IT, which he has proved that he can at least prevent Wall from having historic nights (someone on the Celticsblog Boston vs Washington page gave a nice head to head statistic of IT vs Wall, which had Wall averaging less than 20 points. I'll take a ~18 ppg 10 apg Wall this series lol)
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Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2017, 05:11:23 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Amir starts, just as he has done all season, until/unless a change is necessitated because of match-ups.

Gerald starting was specific to Chicago's big men.

Possibly, but Brad already effectively benched Amir once vs. Washington, when he played the first four minutes, stunk, and didn't return for the rest of the game.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2017, 07:47:58 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Amir starts, just as he has done all season, until/unless a change is necessitated because of match-ups.

Gerald starting was specific to Chicago's big men.

I don't see Amir returning to start until a 2-big unit begins to kill the Celtics in the post.  That is not Washington.

Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2017, 04:02:16 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I didn't get to watch the first half but it looks like Gerald started, played only 7 minutes for the game and recorded 0's across the stat sheet with 1 TO. He finished -13.

It sounds like the whole team out lethargic and let themselves get into a big hole early so maybe I can't pin Green's play entirely on him. But isn't his place in the starting lineup supposed to give the team the jolt that keeps that kind of start from happening?

Jaylen closed out the game with the starters and gave some good minutes. Maybe Stevens lets Gerald avenge his slow start tonight with another start on Tuesday but I also wouldn't be surprised to see Jaylen pick up a start either.

Amir and JJ didn't have much of an impact on today's game.
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Re: Matchups VS Washington. Who starts at PF?
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2017, 04:13:21 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I didn't get to watch the first half but it looks like Gerald started, played only 7 minutes for the game and recorded 0's across the stat sheet with 1 TO. He finished -13.

It sounds like the whole team out lethargic and let themselves get into a big hole early so maybe I can't pin Green's play entirely on him. But isn't his place in the starting lineup supposed to give the team the jolt that keeps that kind of start from happening?

Jaylen closed out the game with the starters and gave some good minutes. Maybe Stevens lets Gerald avenge his slow start tonight with another start on Tuesday but I also wouldn't be surprised to see Jaylen pick up a start either.

Amir and JJ didn't have much of an impact on today's game.

I think it depends upon whether or not Morris is back, though with how bad that looked I'd be really surprised if he's back before we go back to Washington.

If he doesn't play, then I could see Green, Jaylen, or Smart starting. I think he'll keep Smart in the second unit to continue running the bench, but with Jaylen's play today he might get the nod. He plays so much better with the starters that it should work out with his ability to switch onto everyone.

If he does play, I don't see how Brad can go small again. That simply didn't work when Morris was in, and though he didn't hit many shots, he was able to get easy shots that he'll probably hit next time. I still hope that JJ starts if Morris plays. That gives us the best matchup defensively for him.

But for the love of God no more KO/JJ pairings out there.