Author Topic: Marc Stein let go by ESPN  (Read 10165 times)

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Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2017, 11:32:44 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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How are Jemele Hill and Michael Smith still on ESPN???

Not sure what you have against Hill and Smith. They are both charismatic and thoughtful commentators, though I prefer Hill to to Smith. I do agree Stein is one of the good ones though.

To be honest, I don't hate their show as much as other people do, and while it's fine, it's not perfect either.

But letting a lot of respected and reputable guys like Stein and others go while these two stay seems ridiculous just to me.

Sure, it's business for ESPN. For the viewer, obviously you have many doubts.
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Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2017, 11:47:21 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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How are Jemele Hill and Michael Smith still on ESPN???

Not sure what you have against Hill and Smith. They are both charismatic and thoughtful commentators, though I prefer Hill to to Smith. I do agree Stein is one of the good ones though.

To be honest, I don't hate their show as much as other people do, and while it's fine, it's not perfect either.

But letting a lot of respected and reputable guys like Stein and others go while these two stay seems ridiculous just to me.

Sure, it's business for ESPN. For the viewer, obviously you have many doubts.

IMO their show feels very heavy-handed and forced. And they have little charisma, though Hill tries to pretend he's cool.

Both boring and annoying.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2017, 01:12:10 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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It has been about entertainment than sports reporting for quite some time.  It the sports version of the Talking Heads with opinions.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2017, 01:32:16 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The fact Marc Stein was fired and Jemele Hill was retained is disgusting.

I flat out refuse to watch any programming that she is a part of, she a useless piece of crap and a terrible human being.

Stein was an intelligent, substantive contributor. ESPN is dumb.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2017, 02:07:30 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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The fact Marc Stein was fired and Jemele Hill was retained is disgusting.

I flat out refuse to watch any programming that she is a part of, she a useless piece of crap and a terrible human being.

Stein was an intelligent, substantive contributor. ESPN is dumb.

I mean I think she's pretty clueless on sports, but I must have missed something on the terrible human being piece. Was she in some sort of controversy or something?

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2017, 02:14:20 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The fact Marc Stein was fired and Jemele Hill was retained is disgusting.

I flat out refuse to watch any programming that she is a part of, she a useless piece of crap and a terrible human being.

Stein was an intelligent, substantive contributor. ESPN is dumb.

I mean I think she's pretty clueless on sports, but I must have missed something on the terrible human being piece. Was she in some sort of controversy or something?

She's a rascist, and has in the past compared rooting for the Celtics to being akin to rooting for Hitler.

She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2017, 02:22:24 PM »

Offline Dannys Chipotle Guy

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The fact Marc Stein was fired and Jemele Hill was retained is disgusting.

I flat out refuse to watch any programming that she is a part of, she a useless piece of crap and a terrible human being.

Stein was an intelligent, substantive contributor. ESPN is dumb.

I mean I think she's pretty clueless on sports, but I must have missed something on the terrible human being piece. Was she in some sort of controversy or something?

She's a rascist, and has in the past compared rooting for the Celtics to being akin to rooting for Hitler.

She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.
Here is the quote:
Quote
Rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim. It's like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2017, 02:23:15 PM »

Offline colincb

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I work in the business of television and spent over a decade with Disney, here are some thoughts:

- Disney's most profitable business segment is their Cable networks group. 3+ years ago it was making 47% of their revenues. Parks & Resorts makes about 18%, Consumer Products about 14% and movies (including Marvel) make about 8%. TV is by far their most profitable business
- Money in TV is made off of commercials. With DVR and Streaming, people mostly skip commercials, which have driven down the prices companies can charge for them. This has placed a premium on sports, as viewers seldom DVR a game and all commercials are watched. Every network has upped the prices on their commercial spots to make more $$ and compensate for loss of revenues elsewhere.
- The cable universe (those who want it) is declining by more than 1 million viewers each year. This is cable cutters, reduced packages and the "never haves", most millennials. Less people watching means less money to be made
- The majority of the cuts made were to contributors whose value you can't quantify. Marc Stein is an insider, but he does not have a show, is used in small segments with no regular viewing and offers a service many others have. He supports their NBA coverage but adds zero when it comes to helping monetize it
- The move to digital consumption is nowhere near as profitable. Ads sell for 1/10th the cost, which makes a multi-billion dollar investment in a sport that you thought would drive big returns a very questionable investment.
- Every network needs personalities and invests in them to keep that buzz going. Whether you like Stephen A or not, he is a marketable talent who drives interest, whether positive or negative. PTI and ATH do the same.
- SportsCenter used to be the big money maker, but clip based shows no longer have the same relevance. Most people seek out scores, stats, clips and insight online, where that need can be filled instantly. ESPN.com offers the same service as SportsCenter and it's free. For an additional $40 you get their Insider info with more details. That's incredibly cheap when each cable subscriber pays about $8 per month to receive the channel as part of their cable package.
- To revive Sportscenter, the move is to change the formula, hence SC6 and Van Pelt's midnight show. People will watch because they like or hate the talent. The new way allows you to carve up the demographics by offering "frat boy humor and coolness" late night and "diversity with African American male and female" at an earlier hour.
- With that said, the large number of experts being released hurts their product, no question. But since they could never quantify the contributions, they're willing to let other resources (PFT, MMQB, et al) worry about the high expense of insider info.

Personally, I think it sucks and degrades the overall experience. But all of these moves are business. Disney (or Fox, CBS, NBC...) only cares about returning revenues to their shareholders.

TP. It's about making money. The old format wasn't making enough. The new version may well not either.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2017, 02:38:08 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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The fact Marc Stein was fired and Jemele Hill was retained is disgusting.

I flat out refuse to watch any programming that she is a part of, she a useless piece of crap and a terrible human being.

Stein was an intelligent, substantive contributor. ESPN is dumb.

I mean I think she's pretty clueless on sports, but I must have missed something on the terrible human being piece. Was she in some sort of controversy or something?

She's a rascist, and has in the past compared rooting for the Celtics to being akin to rooting for Hitler.

She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.

Oh wow, that was 9 years ago. I didn't even realize.

Yeah, she's pretty terrible as an analyst. Sad to see Stein go, none of these firings are going to change their bottom line either. That's the real bummer.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2017, 02:41:46 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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That's actually B.S.

Really ESPN?? Man some of these people getting layed off are ridiculous.

How are Jemele Hill and Michael Smith still on ESPN???

And Mel Kiper and Todd McShay are on ESPN getting like 2/32 picks right in Round 1 of their mock drafts...  :P

ESPN is dually focused on entertainment and pushing a social agenda. Sports, and particularly reasoned sports analysis, is secondary to that.

These moves are about economics, not social agendas. ESPN is in trouble.

No, there's a clear social agenda. ESPN acknowledged that in their press release, noting that they are focused on "making a difference". Or, this from their Ombudsman:

http://www.espn.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/767/inside-and-out-espn-dealing-with-changing-political-dynamics

Economics is why cuts had to be made. Their choice of who to let go isn't solely economic however.

I suspect their social agenda is the one they think will be most profitable.

Though they certainly have moved much more of their coverage towards issues like racial equality, women's issues, concussions, the labor side of sports, etc.

Though the sports conversation in general has moved towards those.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2017, 03:25:48 PM »

Offline Rick Robeys Return

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I work in the business of television and spent over a decade with Disney, here are some thoughts:

- Disney's most profitable business segment is their Cable networks group. 3+ years ago it was making 47% of their revenues. Parks & Resorts makes about 18%, Consumer Products about 14% and movies (including Marvel) make about 8%. TV is by far their most profitable business
- Money in TV is made off of commercials. With DVR and Streaming, people mostly skip commercials, which have driven down the prices companies can charge for them. This has placed a premium on sports, as viewers seldom DVR a game and all commercials are watched. Every network has upped the prices on their commercial spots to make more $$ and compensate for loss of revenues elsewhere.
- The cable universe (those who want it) is declining by more than 1 million viewers each year. This is cable cutters, reduced packages and the "never haves", most millennials. Less people watching means less money to be made
- The majority of the cuts made were to contributors whose value you can't quantify. Marc Stein is an insider, but he does not have a show, is used in small segments with no regular viewing and offers a service many others have. He supports their NBA coverage but adds zero when it comes to helping monetize it
- The move to digital consumption is nowhere near as profitable. Ads sell for 1/10th the cost, which makes a multi-billion dollar investment in a sport that you thought would drive big returns a very questionable investment.
- Every network needs personalities and invests in them to keep that buzz going. Whether you like Stephen A or not, he is a marketable talent who drives interest, whether positive or negative. PTI and ATH do the same.
- SportsCenter used to be the big money maker, but clip based shows no longer have the same relevance. Most people seek out scores, stats, clips and insight online, where that need can be filled instantly. ESPN.com offers the same service as SportsCenter and it's free. For an additional $40 you get their Insider info with more details. That's incredibly cheap when each cable subscriber pays about $8 per month to receive the channel as part of their cable package.
- To revive Sportscenter, the move is to change the formula, hence SC6 and Van Pelt's midnight show. People will watch because they like or hate the talent. The new way allows you to carve up the demographics by offering "frat boy humor and coolness" late night and "diversity with African American male and female" at an earlier hour.
- With that said, the large number of experts being released hurts their product, no question. But since they could never quantify the contributions, they're willing to let other resources (PFT, MMQB, et al) worry about the high expense of insider info.

Personally, I think it sucks and degrades the overall experience. But all of these moves are business. Disney (or Fox, CBS, NBC...) only cares about returning revenues to their shareholders.

TP. It's about making money. The old format wasn't making enough. The new version may well not either.

TP indeed ConnerHenry! And yes, this is about profit taking full stop. The idea that the Disney Corporation is putting a "social agenda" ahead of its bottom line ignores everything we know about this industry, everything we know about the imperatives of capitalism.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2017, 03:47:07 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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That's actually B.S.

Really ESPN?? Man some of these people getting layed off are ridiculous.

How are Jemele Hill and Michael Smith still on ESPN???

And Mel Kiper and Todd McShay are on ESPN getting like 2/32 picks right in Round 1 of their mock drafts...  :P

ESPN is dually focused on entertainment and pushing a social agenda. Sports, and particularly reasoned sports analysis, is secondary to that.

These moves are about economics, not social agendas. ESPN is in trouble.

No, there's a clear social agenda. ESPN acknowledged that in their press release, noting that they are focused on "making a difference". Or, this from their Ombudsman:

http://www.espn.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/767/inside-and-out-espn-dealing-with-changing-political-dynamics

Economics is why cuts had to be made. Their choice of who to let go isn't solely economic however.

I suspect their social agenda is the one they think will be most profitable.

Though they certainly have moved much more of their coverage towards issues like racial equality, women's issues, concussions, the labor side of sports, etc.

Though the sports conversation in general has moved towards those.

Yeah, i dont think disney is proactively pushing some multicultural and multigendered agenda; i think that, much to the chagrine of certain "old guard" people, that a more diverse and multicultural/multigendered consumer population now exists and they are trying to maximize viewers. It used to be, when the economics of viewers was overwhelmingly adult white men, then the message was more homogenous. This is not the case any more; the commercial power of viewership is more diverse than ever, so a channel trying to make broad appeal is going to reflect that. They may lose some people who dont like change, but i bet they wouldnt do it if they thought they would lose more than they will gain.

Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2017, 03:51:28 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I agree with the general sentiment that Stein did quality work and ESPN letting him go is a mistake. I'm sure he won't have trouble getting work with any number of outlets. It wouldn't be the first time The Ringer picked up an ESPN castoff. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to go work with Simmons and it could definitely help them out. Their NBA writing is a little... light weight, for me.
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Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2017, 04:31:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree with the general sentiment that Stein did quality work and ESPN letting him go is a mistake. I'm sure he won't have trouble getting work with any number of outlets. It wouldn't be the first time The Ringer picked up an ESPN castoff. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to go work with Simmons and it could definitely help them out. Their NBA writing is a little... light weight, for me.

I think The Vertical makes the most sense for Stein.
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Re: Marc Stein let go by ESPN
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2017, 04:33:40 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The fact Marc Stein was fired and Jemele Hill was retained is disgusting.

I flat out refuse to watch any programming that she is a part of, she a useless piece of crap and a terrible human being.

Stein was an intelligent, substantive contributor. ESPN is dumb.

I mean I think she's pretty clueless on sports, but I must have missed something on the terrible human being piece. Was she in some sort of controversy or something?

She's a rascist, and has in the past compared rooting for the Celtics to being akin to rooting for Hitler.

She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.


If I recall what she wrote, she made pretty clear that to her the Celtics were the enemy of her favorite team, the Pistons, so rooting for the Celts would be akin to a Red Sox fan rooting for the Yankees.

Invoking Hitler is always a bit over the top, but if that's all she meant, I don't see what's so bad about it.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain