Author Topic: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles  (Read 2666 times)

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Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« on: April 27, 2017, 12:52:15 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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Not trying to be overly negative and kick a man while he's down and I appreciate that he has spoken well of the team since he was not resigned, but I have to say one of my favorite aspects of this team is that Jared Sullinger isn't on it. He was never our worst player,  [heck] on plenty of days he was our best player but in no way do I wish we still had Jared Sullinger on the team.

I've heard it a lot around here and elsewhere particularly when we get killed on the boards that we should have never let Jared go. There were calls to pick him up right before the playoffs after he was waived. He'd solve our rebounding issues. He's got more fight than Kelly. How can we be paying Zeller all that money when Sullinger was so much better?

Well since the first two games of this series I think it's pretty safe to say that the team is back to running like clockwork. With every substitution guys are coming in ready to play, understanding what each of them needs to do for us to be successful. Most importantly no one is looking over their shoulder wondering if they are going to get benched for Sullinger if they miss a couple of shots or mishandle a rebound.

For better or worse  Horford is the man, Kelly is the undisputed first big off the bench, Amir is the guy when we need someone to match size, Jerebko is the Swiss Army knife, Zeller is the brake in case of emergency option and IMO trying to force in a bull in the china shop rebounder with a suspect jumpshot would be addition by subtraction by addition.

We are a better team without Sullinger. There's no worrying about his conditioning. There's no shots of him sulking on the bench with body language basically screaming "why is Kelly in game? I should be playing!". Having Sullinger on the team meant it was always Sullinger versus Olynyk which means guys like Smart had to take sides. Danny chose Olynyk and, right or wrong, the decision shored up the rotation. With Jared out of the equation and what you give up in rebounding you gain in a more cohesive locker room.

What do you think? Did we make the right choice in moving on from Sullinger? Do you still wish we had him as an end of the rotation guy instead of a someone like Mickey? Or are you like me and just happy that he's gone.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 01:13:17 PM »

Offline JOMVP

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We could really use Sullinger's rebounding. He wasn't terrible in our defensive scheme either but didnt have the athleticism to really cover 4's and wasnt big enough to adequately cover 5's. The problem was he took way too many bad shots and bad decisions with the ball in his hands. Too many costly turnovers. Brad's offensive system needs his bigs to be able to shoot and distribute and Sully wasnt efficient in either.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 01:25:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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We could definitely use the good version of Sully.

The one who could finish around 58-60% inside, shoot 40-45% on long twos (when the shot was appropriate), and occasionally step outside and hit a reasonable percentage on spot-up threes.

The one who would grab 7-8 boards a game, score 13-14 points, make some good passes, and play solid defense inside, albeit without any notable rim-protecting / shot-blocking skills.


Unfortunately, we never got that version of Sully for more than a couple months at a time, and even the mediocre version of Sully (jacking jumpers, getting blocked inside, looking totally gassed in the 4th quarter) couldn't stay healthy for a whole season.


I must say I was very disappointed with Sullinger by the end of his time here.  I liked him a lot when he was drafted and felt he had what it took to be a valuable piece moving forward.  Sadly he just couldn't get himself in the right condition and limit himself to an appropriate shot distribution.
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Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 01:42:27 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The one who could finish around 58-60% inside, shoot 40-45% on long twos (when the shot was appropriate), and occasionally step outside and hit a reasonable percentage on spot-up threes.

The one who would grab 7-8 boards a game, score 13-14 points, make some good passes, and play solid defense inside, albeit without any notable rim-protecting / shot-blocking skills.
You mean Al Horford? :P
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Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 01:46:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The one who could finish around 58-60% inside, shoot 40-45% on long twos (when the shot was appropriate), and occasionally step outside and hit a reasonable percentage on spot-up threes.

The one who would grab 7-8 boards a game, score 13-14 points, make some good passes, and play solid defense inside, albeit without any notable rim-protecting / shot-blocking skills.
You mean Al Horford? :P

Actually yeah, basically.  Al Horford is pretty much the idealized version of Sully, albeit weaker on the defensive boards. 

That's why Ainge and Co were eager to sign him.


I suppose that's one way to look at it -- we got Horford, and if Sullinger had lived up to his potential, we wouldn't have been able to sign both of them.  Horford, even though he's older, is better than Sully was at this best, so it worked out for the Celts regardless.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 02:01:06 PM »

Offline nebist

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Yeah, I'm with you, to sum it up succinctly, I just don't think Sullinger's work ethic fit with our team identity.  Guys like Zeller and Jerebko certainly have their flaws, but they seem to work at it.  It presents chemistry problems when players don't work as hard (especially when they are more talented than others on the team) because you can't just play your best players without implicitly rewarding a lack of effort.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 02:01:17 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Sullinger never had the commitment it took to be a pro.  He had a knack for rebounding and great hands but tried to be something he wasn't.  He is and was a.poor shooter whose ego convinced him otherwise.  He also did think it was important to stay in shape or maintain a healthy weight.  He had a ton of chances here and squandered them and whatever goodwill Ainge had for him.

We could use a legit stretch floor which Jared never was because of a combination of his poor shooting from beyond the arc and he poor shot selection.  Not to mentor athletically he lacked the range to cover that space.

Good riddance,  I don't miss the not running the floor, lack of getting back on D,  taking plays off.  It is clear we missed his presence on the boards but to have a guy like this on our team is a compromise in quality.  He was a stop gap measure that Ainge used.  I get people has hopes and grew attached to him.  I never did, he was maddening to me.  In the I think Ainge and CBS felt this way, too, hence the release after he completely let the team down in the playoffs last year.  I hope he turns it around just not here he is the antithesis of Celtics Pride with his lack of self discipline.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 02:27:24 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I think the real question is whether he will ever play in the league again.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 02:44:03 PM »

Offline LGC88

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We could definitely use the good version of Sully.

The one who could finish around 58-60% inside, shoot 40-45% on long twos (when the shot was appropriate), and occasionally step outside and hit a reasonable percentage on spot-up threes.

The one who would grab 7-8 boards a game, score 13-14 points, make some good passes, and play solid defense inside, albeit without any notable rim-protecting / shot-blocking skills.


Unfortunately, we never got that version of Sully for more than a couple months at a time, and even the mediocre version of Sully (jacking jumpers, getting blocked inside, looking totally gassed in the 4th quarter) couldn't stay healthy for a whole season.


I must say I was very disappointed with Sullinger by the end of his time here.  I liked him a lot when he was drafted and felt he had what it took to be a valuable piece moving forward.  Sadly he just couldn't get himself in the right condition and limit himself to an appropriate shot distribution.

TP.
It's never too late, if Sully redeem himself and start to really work for his sake, maybe he can come back in a friendly contract 1+1 and see how it goes. Might be best for him and the Cs.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 02:48:07 PM »

Offline jambr380

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The guy just does not have the proper genetics for being a professional basketball player. I am certainly not making excuses for him, but there are lots of guys who don't work very hard on their bodies or eat a proper diet but are still pretty cut and in shape just from playing the game.

Unfortunately for him he chose not to give that extra effort that was needed - which is a shame, since is so skilled at certain aspects of the game. He may yet still have a career, but I have to believe his best years were with the Cs. This is often the case with overweight players - the longevity just isn't there.

It's a bummer, because I agree that it would be great to have 'good Sully' around, but that was becoming more and more of a mirage. I would still absolutely take Sully the player over Zeller/Mickey/JJ, but Sully the person probably couldn't handle being 4th/5th big and that would probably disrupt team chemistry.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 04:23:09 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't necessarily agree with the premise. I like players being pushed by other talented players. Defined roles can lead to players being more comfortable, but it can also make them more complacent.

There are reasons not to want Sully on the team. He hasn't shown commitment to controlling his weight and he often doesn't give full effort. His affect on KO wouldn't be a concern for me, though. It's good to have different players to use in different matchups, and to plug in when things aren't going well.

Look at our success with Powe and BBD. Neither necessarily had a set in stone place in the rotation, but Doc mostly used them to the team's advantage. Sully and KO were like that: similar talent levels, some overlapping skills but different enough to be useful in a variety of scenarios. Having only one player can limit options.


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Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 04:27:11 AM »

Offline Greyman

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When he was let go the time was right to decide if what Sully offered, based on his previous efforts and inconsistency, was better than the alternate path. Despite what Sully showed he could do, I believe the team is better off without him. That said, I would love to see him do the work consistently and rebuild his career. When he was good he was certainly an above average NBA player.

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 07:11:24 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I'm going out for chocolate donuts

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 07:51:56 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I would like to see us nab an athletic big at some point.  BTW

Re: Jared Sullinger and the value of defined roles
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 08:11:45 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I like Sully as a player, I think he has some very good NBA skills. His problem in my eyes has always been stubbornness, it was pretty clear that he didn't believe in the way that Brad was trying to use him, he thought he should be a low block player like Monroe the entire game. Whilst I can sympathise with that he also missed opportunities to really expand his game and potentially get a lucrative next contract.

I can still see him having success on teams that run a traditional setup, such as the Clippers (sorely need bench depth) or Memphis (a Randolph replacement), but he's not adapting his game to the rest of the NBA.

It's a shame because he was a lottery potential big that slipped to us and could've been a key role player in any future title runs. Not everything works out though, c'est la vie.