Al Horford averaging 15 points, 6 assists, 9.5 rebounds in this playoff series.

[crimson_stallion]

Why are people equating 5 games to a whole season? At his peak Horford was a 3rd best type player on a title team and he has pretty steadily getting worse.  If Boston had signed Durant then Horford made sense but on his own it was a bad signing because he just isn't good enough.

I don't really understand this. The C's got the 2nd best free agent on the market at market value. They had to spend money on someone. What free agent would you have rather seen them bring in last summer and at what price?

I've gone on record many times that I would have signed multiple lesser individual players on shorter contracts and then gone into this summer with more than max space and the ability to create 2 max spots if needed and tried again.  The lesser players on the whole would have provided more depth, rebounding, etc.  Horford is not a player that put Boston into a true contender status, who is on the wrong side of 30, and who doesn't fit the Boston core's timeline at all.  He just didn't make sense as a signing without Durant.

The C's wound up having to cut or reassign multiple players prior to the season starting. There was no room on the roster for "multiple lesser individual players."

And I wonder who those players would have even been, had the roster spaces been available? I also wonder why you would've wanted to go into this summer with max room when it's unlikely the Celtics will land even one big free agent let alone two.

No Horford, no Zeller, no Green is 3 spots.  That would be multiple players.

You still haven't given an exmple of what players you would've gone after last summer or why having more money this coming summer would've been preferable, when the C's are still unlikely to nab a max level free agent.

The biggest reason why Boston are unlikely to nab a max level free agent this year is because we do not have max cap space available...because of Horford's contract.

Now if Horford continues to play the way he has for the remainder of the playoffs, then I can come to terms with "that contact" - but he kinda HAD TO play like this in order to justify that contract, because his regular season porformance was honestly pretty aweful.

[Ilikesports17]

Why are people equating 5 games to a whole season? At his peak Horford was a 3rd best type player on a title team and he has pretty steadily getting worse.  If Boston had signed Durant then Horford made sense but on his own it was a bad signing because he just isn't good enough.

I don't really understand this. The C's got the 2nd best free agent on the market at market value. They had to spend money on someone. What free agent would you have rather seen them bring in last summer and at what price?

I've gone on record many times that I would have signed multiple lesser individual players on shorter contracts and then gone into this summer with more than max space and the ability to create 2 max spots if needed and tried again.  The lesser players on the whole would have provided more depth, rebounding, etc.  Horford is not a player that put Boston into a true contender status, who is on the wrong side of 30, and who doesn't fit the Boston core's timeline at all.  He just didn't make sense as a signing without Durant.

The C's wound up having to cut or reassign multiple players prior to the season starting. There was no room on the roster for "multiple lesser individual players."

And I wonder who those players would have even been, had the roster spaces been available? I also wonder why you would've wanted to go into this summer with max room when it's unlikely the Celtics will land even one big free agent let alone two.

No Horford, no Zeller, no Green is 3 spots.  That would be multiple players.

You still haven't given an exmple of what players you would've gone after last summer or why having more money this coming summer would've been preferable, when the C's are still unlikely to nab a max level free agent.

The biggest reason why Boston are unlikely to nab a max level free agent this year is because we do not have max cap space available...because of Horford's contract.

Now if Horford continues to play the way he has for the remainder of the playoffs, then I can come to terms with "that contact" - but he kinda HAD TO play like this in order to justify that contract, because his regular season porformance was honestly pretty aweful.

Signing Horford was a no-brainer.

[ederson]

2) The Celtics did not have to pay him.  We could have taken Dwight for $10m less potentially.  We could have held the cap space for this season, when we'd have had enough for two max salary players.  We could have saved that cap space and used it to be able to absorb the contract of a guy like Cousins, Melo, Butler or George while still maintaining cap flexibility for this coming offseason.  We had lots of options, we certainly did not HAVE to pay him.

You could have signed DH for 15m/y ? Really?  In the summer of huge contracts DH would have set aside his huge ego and would have accepted a contract similar to Mosgov's?

[Darío SpanishFan]

Why are people equating 5 games to a whole season? At his peak Horford was a 3rd best type player on a title team and he has pretty steadily getting worse.  If Boston had signed Durant then Horford made sense but on his own it was a bad signing because he just isn't good enough.

I don't really understand this. The C's got the 2nd best free agent on the market at market value. They had to spend money on someone. What free agent would you have rather seen them bring in last summer and at what price?

I've gone on record many times that I would have signed multiple lesser individual players on shorter contracts and then gone into this summer with more than max space and the ability to create 2 max spots if needed and tried again.  The lesser players on the whole would have provided more depth, rebounding, etc.  Horford is not a player that put Boston into a true contender status, who is on the wrong side of 30, and who doesn't fit the Boston core's timeline at all.  He just didn't make sense as a signing without Durant.

The C's wound up having to cut or reassign multiple players prior to the season starting. There was no room on the roster for "multiple lesser individual players."

And I wonder who those players would have even been, had the roster spaces been available? I also wonder why you would've wanted to go into this summer with max room when it's unlikely the Celtics will land even one big free agent let alone two.

No Horford, no Zeller, no Green is 3 spots.  That would be multiple players.

You still haven't given an exmple of what players you would've gone after last summer or why having more money this coming summer would've been preferable, when the C's are still unlikely to nab a max level free agent.

The biggest reason why Boston are unlikely to nab a max level free agent this year is because we do not have max cap space available...because of Horford's contract.

Now if Horford continues to play the way he has for the remainder of the playoffs, then I can come to terms with "that contact" - but he kinda HAD TO play like this in order to justify that contract, because his regular season porformance was honestly pretty aweful.

Signing Horford was a no-brainer.

Agreed. Just for the fact that it gave us a serious shot to get Durant.

[dreamgreen]

He's played great, really showing what he can do and why they signed him. If he continues to play like this we can beat the Wizards.

[Moranis]

2) The Celtics did not have to pay him.  We could have taken Dwight for $10m less potentially.  We could have held the cap space for this season, when we'd have had enough for two max salary players.  We could have saved that cap space and used it to be able to absorb the contract of a guy like Cousins, Melo, Butler or George while still maintaining cap flexibility for this coming offseason.  We had lots of options, we certainly did not HAVE to pay him.

You could have signed DH for 15m/y ? Really?  In the summer of huge contracts DH would have set aside his huge ego and would have accepted a contract similar to Mosgov's?

Yeah I don't buy that one, he signed with his hometown team for 3 years, 70.5 million.  It isn't an increasing contract (or at least much of one) as every year is between 23 and 24 million a year.  I think if you gave him the 4th year, you probably could have signed him at around the same dollars or if you gave him full max for 2 years, you might have been able to sign him, but no way you get him for 18 million on a one year deal.  That said, I'd rather have Howard at 3 years, 70.5 million then Horford at 4 years, 113 million.  The 4 million difference this summer is huge in the ability to sign a max free agent this summer and the one less year makes it far easier to re-sign guys like Olynyk, Bradley, Thomas, and Smart and avoid the luxury tax.  I just don't see Boston being willing to pay a heavy luxury tax with this current group, so I think some of those guys disappear.

I had a response to Big typed and for some reason it didn't go through and I lost.  Basically, I would have signed a combination of lesser players than Horford last summer, with less long term money locked up.  There were any combination of players that could have been signed, including just keeping Sullinger (of course they could have kept him anyway).  Speights, Ezeli, Biyombo, even Howard, all would have been interesting.  I mean is the team really much worse if instead of Horford and Zeller, it has Howard, Sullinger, and Speights (you could even still have Green if you just cut Young as well as Hunter).  The other option would have been just sign some 1 year deal type players (like Sullinger and Speights) and then go into the deadline and acquire someone like Ibaka or Noel, or frankly both of them since you could still have max cap room and keep one of those guys this summer.  Again is the team that much different if instead of Horford and Zeller you have Sullinger, Speights, and Ibaka or Noel.  I don't think the product on the floor is that much different, but in the latter scenarios you don't have nearly 30 million in salary locked up in a player that doesn't fit the age timeline of the rest of the team and isn't a #1 player.  heck at this point Horford probably isn't even a #2 player, and by the end of his contract might not even be a #3 player.  Horford was a bad signing at the time.  A few good playoff games doesn't change that.

[RockinRyA]

2) The Celtics did not have to pay him.  We could have taken Dwight for $10m less potentially.  We could have held the cap space for this season, when we'd have had enough for two max salary players.  We could have saved that cap space and used it to be able to absorb the contract of a guy like Cousins, Melo, Butler or George while still maintaining cap flexibility for this coming offseason.  We had lots of options, we certainly did not HAVE to pay him.

You could have signed DH for 15m/y ? Really?  In the summer of huge contracts DH would have set aside his huge ego and would have accepted a contract similar to Mosgov's?

crimson_stallion has formed a habit of spouting nonsense.

[aefgogreen]

I think the best reasoning for supporting the max contract for Horford is to say his value won't show in his numbers, but will show in the team's numbers.

[nickagneta]

2) The Celtics did not have to pay him.  We could have taken Dwight for $10m less potentially.  We could have held the cap space for this season, when we'd have had enough for two max salary players.  We could have saved that cap space and used it to be able to absorb the contract of a guy like Cousins, Melo, Butler or George while still maintaining cap flexibility for this coming offseason.  We had lots of options, we certainly did not HAVE to pay him.

You could have signed DH for 15m/y ? Really?  In the summer of huge contracts DH would have set aside his huge ego and would have accepted a contract similar to Mosgov's?

crimson_stallion has formed a habit of spouting nonsense.

Not sure he is spouting nonsense but he lobbied hard that Horford was not worth signing for months before we signed Horford and he is trying to show that opinion is still valid, which most people will say it isn't.

[ederson]

His claim that Howard would have rejected his hometown offer to sign with the Cs for 10m less based on absolutely nothing cannot be considered valid

[nickagneta]

His claim that Howard would have rejected his hometown offer to sign with the Cs for 10m less based on absolutely nothing cannot be considered valid

Agree with that.

[tankcity!]

Why are people equating 5 games to a whole season? At his peak Horford was a 3rd best type player on a title team and he has pretty steadily getting worse.  If Boston had signed Durant then Horford made sense but on his own it was a bad signing because he just isn't good enough.

Why are we equating 2 months of Embiid equaling future superstar? What kind of question is that? Um 5 games in playoffs is pretty important stuff. Keep stewing though. Enjoy watching the smellfest in philly.

[CoachBo]

2) The Celtics did not have to pay him.  We could have taken Dwight for $10m less potentially.  We could have held the cap space for this season, when we'd have had enough for two max salary players.  We could have saved that cap space and used it to be able to absorb the contract of a guy like Cousins, Melo, Butler or George while still maintaining cap flexibility for this coming offseason.  We had lots of options, we certainly did not HAVE to pay him.

You could have signed DH for 15m/y ? Really?  In the summer of huge contracts DH would have set aside his huge ego and would have accepted a contract similar to Mosgov's?

crimson_stallion has formed a habit of spouting nonsense.

Not sure he is spouting nonsense but he lobbied hard that Horford was not worth signing for months before we signed Horford and he is trying to show that opinion is still valid, which most people will say it isn't.

There's a Thomas thread today doing the same thing.

Meanwhile, I am thrilled to have both of them.

[nickagneta]

2) The Celtics did not have to pay him.  We could have taken Dwight for $10m less potentially.  We could have held the cap space for this season, when we'd have had enough for two max salary players.  We could have saved that cap space and used it to be able to absorb the contract of a guy like Cousins, Melo, Butler or George while still maintaining cap flexibility for this coming offseason.  We had lots of options, we certainly did not HAVE to pay him.

You could have signed DH for 15m/y ? Really?  In the summer of huge contracts DH would have set aside his huge ego and would have accepted a contract similar to Mosgov's?

crimson_stallion has formed a habit of spouting nonsense.

Not sure he is spouting nonsense but he lobbied hard that Horford was not worth signing for months before we signed Horford and he is trying to show that opinion is still valid, which most people will say it isn't.

There's a Thomas thread today doing the same thing.

Meanwhile, I am thrilled to have both of them.

Same here. The Cs have won 5 games in a row in the playoffs and Thomas and Horford are largely responsible for that.

[Moranis]

Why are people equating 5 games to a whole season? At his peak Horford was a 3rd best type player on a title team and he has pretty steadily getting worse.  If Boston had signed Durant then Horford made sense but on his own it was a bad signing because he just isn't good enough.

Why are we equating 2 months of Embiid equaling future superstar? What kind of question is that? Um 5 games in playoffs is pretty important stuff. Keep stewing though. Enjoy watching the smellfest in philly.

Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. are you talking about?