Intentional Fouling / Hack-A

[greg683x]

Because this is a league for professionals.  If you're going to put a player in the game his game should be well rounded enough so he's not a glaring liability on the court.

You don't change rules that have been in place for decades to cater to players who call themselves professionals in a sport where they can't perform the fundamental task the game is based upon.

What's next?  Illegal defense for sagging off terrible shooters to help out on good offensive players

This doesn't answer my key question, which is -- why is the rule that the player who is fouled off the ball has to take the free throw?

The rule wasn't created with the intention that teams would be able to force bad free throws shooters to the line.

So why keep it this way just because it's the way it's been for a long time?  One of the best things about the NBA is the willingness to let the game evolve over time to become more enjoyable to watch.



The fact is, free throws are meant to be a bonus to a team.  A punishment to the other team for committing a foul.  That's the obvious intention of the rule.

When it flips the other way, and a team can actually be punished when the other team commits a foul, that actually perverts the original intention of the rule.  Therefore, why not change the rule?  A team should always be at an advantage when it gets a chance to send a guy to the line.

I'm OK with shooting fouls being the exception.  I like that there is a penalty to an offensive player struggling at the line.  That way you can legitimately defend that player by fouling them when they go in for a layup and force them to make their shots at the line.  But you can't force a particular player to attempt a shot that might result in free throws.  A team always has the option of running an offense that results in somebody else making a shot attempt.

Allowing teams to grind the game to a halt and basically say, "You don't get to run an offense anymore, instead, the player of our choosing will have to take free throws" is crazy to me.  It makes no sense.  It puts the offensive team in a position where their only choice is to roll the dice on the bad free throw shooter or take the bad free throw shooter off the floor.  The death of choice in running an offense is bad for the goal of crunch time being entertaining.

i feel like the answer is pretty obvious.  he who is fouled, takes the free throws.

seriously if we werent trying to figure out a way to create a handicap for teams with bad free throw shooters, how does this rule not make sense?

The fact is, free throws are meant to be a bonus to a team.  A punishment to the other team for committing a foul.  That's the obvious intention of the rule.

The team that decides to put awful free throw shooters in the game makes the decision to risk reaping the rewards of this bonus.

Making free throws is part of the game for EVERYONE WHO PLAYS IT

[PhoSita]

i feel like the answer is pretty obvious.  he who is fouled, takes the free throws.

But why?

When a team commits a technical foul, the other team gets to choose the person who takes the free throws.

Why not have it work the same for off-ball fouls?

I get that you feel that free throws are "a part of the game" so everybody on the court should be prepared to take them and make them.

If you're hard line on that, I'm never going to convince you otherwise.

I just think the game would be quite clearly more enjoyable to watch and more interesting in terms of end-game tactics if it were not so easy for the opposing team to hijack the opponent's offense and turn it into a mini-game wherein one hapless role player has to try to hit free throws.

But that's just me.


Why do you think it's a bad thing for a guy like Andre Roberson or Deandre Jordan to be on the court at the end of the game?  Is it more fun if the Thunder or the Clips have crappier defense in an end of game situation because they can't keep their defender on the floor?  Is it better if coaches have to take a million timeouts so they can keep switching players for offense / defense?

[PhoSita]

I think it is part of the game, bad shooters are a risk and don't need to be changed.   Players should learn that aspect of the game.

I mean, we don't apply this to any other aspect of the game.  Bad passers don't need to learn to pass to be useful, bad rebounders don't need to learn to rebound, etc.


If a team wants to put a bad shooter who is really physically gifted on the floor, why not let them?  Presumably that will come with advantages and disadvantages with regard to running their offense.  I say -- let them run their offense!  Let them see what shots they can create.  Let the offensive team actually try to, you know, play offense.


Andre Roberson is a good basketball player; he's just not good at that one particular part of the game.  Why should he be forced to go to the bench or else torpedo his team's chances at running fourth quarter offense?

[greg683x]

i feel like the answer is pretty obvious.  he who is fouled, takes the free throws.

But why?

When a team commits a technical foul, the other team gets to choose the person who takes the free throws.

Why not have it work the same for off-ball fouls?

I get that you feel that free throws are "a part of the game" so everybody on the court should be prepared to take them and make them.

If you're hard line on that, I'm never going to convince you otherwise.

I just think the game would be quite clearly more enjoyable to watch and more interesting in terms of end-game tactics if it were not so easy for the opposing team to hijack the opponent's offense and turn it into a mini-game wherein one hapless role player has to try to hit free throws.

But that's just me.


Why do you think it's a bad thing for a guy like Andre Roberson or Deandre Jordan to be on the court at the end of the game?  Is it more fun if the Thunder or the Clips have crappier defense in an end of game situation because they can't keep their defender on the floor?  Is it better if coaches have to take a million timeouts so they can keep switching players for offense / defense?

If you're hard line on that, I'm never going to convince you otherwise.

with all due respect, you seem to have taken a hard line yourself.

changing rules for the sake of making a game more enjoyable/watchable is a slippery slope.  all this does is create more opportunities for bad basketball players to excel. 

When a team commits a technical foul, the other team gets to choose the person who takes the free throws.

Why not have it work the same for off-ball fouls?

Because a technical is an unsportsmanlike foul, it has nothing to do with a game foul that was committed whether it be shooting or off the ball.  I personally would rather have an off the ball foul have more similarities with a shooting foul than a tech.

The bottom line is though, you can absolutely have it work that way if you really want to.  Theres plenty of small rules like this in every game that can be changed, the problem is the reason, youre trying to change them to hide the weaknesses of certain players.  I personally think thats a terrible thing to do is youre a league thats supposed to have the best of the best

[LilRip]

I don't like that fouling becomes a bonus to the opposing team as well. And I don't buy the whole "coz it's been like that for years so don't change it" line of thinking either. And if we're going with the whole "free throw is a skill players need to learn", the  counter argument imo is that "defense is a skill players need to learn".

The NBA has done rule changes over the years to address playstyles, like for example, 3 in the key, the 5 seconds backdown, crossing half court 8 seconds and the removal of hand checking. I like the step they made with the 2 minute foul rule per quarter. This time, maybe they should empower refs to call techs whenever there's an intentional off ball foul? I don't know yet.

[greg683x]

I don't like that fouling becomes a bonus to the opposing team as well. And I don't buy the whole "coz it's been like that for years so don't change it" line of thinking either. And if we're going with the whole "free throw is a skill players need to learn", the  counter argument imo is that "defense is a skill players need to learn".

The NBA has done rule changes over the years to address playstyles, like for example, 3 in the key, the 5 seconds backdown, crossing half court 8 seconds and the removal of hand checking. I like the step they made with the 2 minute foul rule per quarter. This time, maybe they should empower refs to call techs whenever there's an intentional off ball foul? I don't know yet.

yeah but when you put bad defensive players on the court, your teams pays for it though dont they? 

when you put bad rebounders on the court, your team gets torched on the boards dont they?

if you put slow players in the game, the opposing team starts running right?

when you put bad free throw shooters in the game the opposing teams puts them on the line.

[GratefulCs]

i just wanna say that it's crazy to have a bonus AND be able to foul out

overkill

[BE-Celtic]

The principle of basket-ball is to throw the ball into the rim. Once this is said, I don't understand why the game should adapt to the players and not the opposite. It's the players who must practice and train hard to succeed.

Roberston is a terrible shooter for a position 3 and his coach could have put him on the bench to avoid the hack. It's a -ugly- part of the game but that's how it is. Also, players have a personnal foul count and the league already changed the rule a bit, making a favor to Jordan, Howard, and the players who can't shoot free throws. So why should the league do more?

As a last argument, I wanna add that the NBA is very aware that this is a show and the public needs to enjoy it. This is true and the NBA is right, but here in Europe, this is not the case in popular sports. Rarely will you see rules being changed so the sport gets more "watchable".

... Oh and of course, there's the good old "you're paid millions and you can't reach 60% on free throws... Come on guys".

PS : I don't find it normal that DeAndre Jordan, who can't score a basket 2 meters away from the line is often voted as the best 5 of the league. He's athletic but we're watching basket-ball here guys.