Author Topic: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A  (Read 2050 times)

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Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« on: April 26, 2017, 05:53:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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This strategy reared it's ugly head yet again in the Rockets - Thunder series.

Poor Andre Roberson could not hit a free throw to save his life, or more to the point, his team's season.


A fairly simple solution to this problem occurred to me this morning when I was listening to a discussion of the series on the Ringer NBA Show:

Any time a player commits a non-shooting foul and his team is in the penalty, the other team gets to choose who will take the free throws.

In other words, the only time a poor free throw shooter would get sent to the line is when another player fouls him in the act of shooting.



Why wouldn't this work?  What would be the issue with doing it this way?
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 05:57:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I like the suggestion, but I know there are others that have said... players need to learn how to shoot free throws or sit down.

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 06:02:54 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 If a player on my team were shooting 10% like Roberson is. I would make him try shooting underhanded.

 I like the idea though.

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 06:06:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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In an ideal world, players would just learn to shoot free throws.

But then again, why do we force certain guys to take non-shooting foul free throws anyway?  What is the basis of that?

If it's just an off-ball foul, why does it make more sense to have the guy who happened to get bumped into on a screen take the free throws?

Bottom line, Andre Roberson shouldn't have been on the floor in crunch time for the Thunder, because he was such a liability at the line.  But he's clearly a far better and more entertaining player than Alex Abrines or whoever else the Thunder would have put out there instead.

The rules should be crafted so that the best players can stay on the floor.  They should emphasize the best that the NBA product can be.


So what's the problem with having Russell Westbrook take those free throws instead, if somebody on the Rockets hacks the crap out of Roberson?  Why make it so you can chase certain defensive specialists off the floor because they struggle at a discrete arbitrary task, i.e. shooting a set-shot from a particular spot on the floor?


I have no problem with punishing guys who can't hit free throws when they drive to the basket and get fouled that way.  If you take a shot and the other team fouls you to prevent you scoring, you need to go to the line to get your points.  But if the other team just fouls you off the ball as an intentional strategy to avoid having to defend your offensively talented teammates, that's silly.

You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 06:25:00 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Because this is a league for professionals.  If you're going to put a player in the game his game should be well rounded enough so he's not a glaring liability on the court.

You don't change rules that have been in place for decades to cater to players who call themselves professionals in a sport where they can't perform the fundamental task the game is based upon.

What's next?  Illegal defense for sagging off terrible shooters to help out on good offensive players
Greg

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 06:41:20 PM »

Offline positivitize

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No change. Learn to make free throws
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Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 06:54:13 PM »

Offline saltlover

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The only change I'd be okay with is that a team can choose to take a side-out with a reset shot clock instead of shooting free throws for all fouls, shooting and non-shooting, for the entire game (except and-1s -- you don't get an extra possession.).  This rule would speed up the end of games because there wouldn't be all the hacking at the end to create more possessions, in addition to eliminating the hack-a-player strategy.

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 06:57:23 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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No reason to change the rules because some guys are that terrible at free throws.

No reason a player in the NBA shouldn't average 70% from the line or more.

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 06:57:33 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Can you imagine how so much better some of these current players would be if they could hit FT's...

Shaq is Shaq obviously.

But guys CURRENTLY like DeAndre Jordan, and Andre Drummond. You can just imagine..
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 06:57:36 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Just teach Roberson the granny shot
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 07:03:57 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Can you imagine how so much better some of these current players would be if they could hit FT's...

Shaq is Shaq obviously.

But guys CURRENTLY like DeAndre Jordan, and Andre Drummond. You can just imagine..

It is absolutely hilarious to me that those guys egos are so big, they would rather miss free throws at an incredible rate, rather than make them at a fair rate, just because they don't want to look 'uncool'.

Frankly it makes me think less of them, and the others, who won't even give the underhand shot a try.

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 07:07:21 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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The only change I'd be okay with is that a team can choose to take a side-out with a reset shot clock instead of shooting free throws for all fouls, shooting and non-shooting, for the entire game (except and-1s -- you don't get an extra possession.).  This rule would speed up the end of games because there wouldn't be all the hacking at the end to create more possessions, in addition to eliminating the hack-a-player strategy.
This is the only rule change I'd even consider.  And I'm not even sure how liberal I'd be with a shot clock reset, because I could see declining FT's for a side out late in games being used as a time wasting tactic by teams that are leading.

Guys just need to learn to make free throws.  If you are Roberson, Jordan, or Drummond, get better or be exploited because you are incapable of performing a core basketball skill at a level most junior high students routinely can.

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 07:09:32 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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This strategy reared it's ugly head yet again in the Rockets - Thunder series.

Poor Andre Roberson could not hit a free throw to save his life, or more to the point, his team's season.


A fairly simple solution to this problem occurred to me this morning when I was listening to a discussion of the series on the Ringer NBA Show:

Any time a player commits a non-shooting foul and his team is in the penalty, the other team gets to choose who will take the free throws.

In other words, the only time a poor free throw shooter would get sent to the line is when another player fouls him in the act of shooting.



Why wouldn't this work?  What would be the issue with doing it this way?

There are a few problems with this.

 1)  If a player has a weakness in his game, the opposing coach will make attack that weakness to force the other coach to make an adjustment. For example, Kanter and Okafor are talented players but their weakness on the Pick and Roll coverage is so poor they are very difficult to play in certain situations. Saying a player doesn't have to shoot free throws because he is bad at them is similar in some respects to saying a team can't run a p&r against a specific player cause he is at bad at stopping it.

2) It is a skill to be able to hit free throws. One that people train very hard to improve and be good at. Some players have worked for years on this aspect of their game to be able to stay on the floor in crunch time. This fundamentally changes the game of basketball to weaken the importance of this skill.

3) Is this the only rule that slows that game? Calling hand checking fouls or the freedom of movement changes in college game certainly slow down the pace of the game (obviously less extreme in most cases). Should they alter those rules also?

4) When can you start changing rules for a thing that only impacts a very small subset of the game? Can you change the rule for various points of the game? Does IT automatically start shooting all end of game free throws when a team is fouling to get back in the game? Why is it ok to foul at the end of the game intentionally, but not earlier?

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 07:11:39 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Because this is a league for professionals.  If you're going to put a player in the game his game should be well rounded enough so he's not a glaring liability on the court.

You don't change rules that have been in place for decades to cater to players who call themselves professionals in a sport where they can't perform the fundamental task the game is based upon.

What's next?  Illegal defense for sagging off terrible shooters to help out on good offensive players


This doesn't answer my key question, which is -- why is the rule that the player who is fouled off the ball has to take the free throw?

The rule wasn't created with the intention that teams would be able to force bad free throws shooters to the line.

So why keep it this way just because it's the way it's been for a long time?  One of the best things about the NBA is the willingness to let the game evolve over time to become more enjoyable to watch.



The fact is, free throws are meant to be a bonus to a team.  A punishment to the other team for committing a foul.  That's the obvious intention of the rule.

When it flips the other way, and a team can actually be punished when the other team commits a foul, that actually perverts the original intention of the rule.  Therefore, why not change the rule?  A team should always be at an advantage when it gets a chance to send a guy to the line.

I'm OK with shooting fouls being the exception.  I like that there is a penalty to an offensive player struggling at the line.  That way you can legitimately defend that player by fouling them when they go in for a layup and force them to make their shots at the line.  But you can't force a particular player to attempt a shot that might result in free throws.  A team always has the option of running an offense that results in somebody else making a shot attempt.

Allowing teams to grind the game to a halt and basically say, "You don't get to run an offense anymore, instead, the player of our choosing will have to take free throws" is crazy to me.  It makes no sense.  It puts the offensive team in a position where their only choice is to roll the dice on the bad free throw shooter or take the bad free throw shooter off the floor.  The death of choice in running an offense is bad for the goal of crunch time being entertaining.

You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Intentional Fouling / Hack-A
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 07:23:18 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think it is part of the game, bad shooters are a risk and don't need to be changed.   Players should learn that aspect of the game.