Author Topic: Butler sucking it up this series  (Read 5784 times)

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Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2017, 08:29:46 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.

As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).
Smart has been better than Bradley this series. Dont think its particularly close.

ABs defense isnt that valuable unless the other team has a Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Dame Lillard type and he although he still spaces the floor, his incompetence as a passer and ball handler really limits his effectiveness when he isnt making his jumpers.

This series hes had 1 good game and 3 bad ones.

It was a matter of time
Bradley is a better player than Smart and one of the most important players on the Celtics. He outplayed Jimmy Butler, who in my opinion is a borderline top 10 player. Thats massive. Its really important to have a guy who can go out and shut down Jimmy Butler or Kyrie Irving.

All that said, I stand by what I said earlier. Prior to this game Smart had been better than Bradley. Now Smart was mediocre today while AB was an absolute beast. Smart>AB is no longer the case.

I support your opinions, sorry if it seemed the opposite. I was using you as an argument, not against. TP

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2017, 08:52:20 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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He is an all-star talent individual that's for sure,but as far as carrying his team he isn't on PG/GH's level
That said he clearly isn't worth 17Nets pick

I think I would Brooklyn 17, Crowder, and a future protected 1st for him if that's all it took.

Can franchises trade fans? Celtics should trade you for a couple of Chicago Bull fans. Why would you trade the Brooklyn #1 for anyone not named Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant?

I don't think the player we select with that draft pick will play a pivotal role in us winning our next championship. I think Butler could. So in that sense it's a no brainer for me.

Butler can't even set an example on his team, completely disappear in game 5 and drop his teammates under the bus when in dire situation. He's a fake tough guy. Smart and Bradley completely got into his head and it was evident in game 5.

I'll take him if we can get him for bargain. But for the 2017 BKN first? Hell no. That prospect have way more higher ceiling than Butler. I'd rather invest with the kids than cripple our cap flexibility while competing for a championship.
This.  It's amazing to me that we are having this debate after Butler's lousy game and Bradley's STELLAR game.

Butler top-10 in the NBA?  Hmmm...maybe but definitely not top-5 (which IMO is Harden, Westbrook, Leonard, James, Durant).  I also put Paul George and Steph Curry ahead of him, so he is #8, at best.

The argument wasn't really centered around what you're saying. Butler is better than Crowder, we can all agree on that. It now comes down to that pick. In the last 14 drafts 2 players have been selected number 1, and significant in leading their team to a championship. That's LeBron and Kyrie.

Adding Butler to the starting lineup next year will help our team a lot more than adding Fultz/Ball/Jackson to the bench.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2017, 09:20:47 AM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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He is an all-star talent individual that's for sure,but as far as carrying his team he isn't on PG/GH's level
That said he clearly isn't worth 17Nets pick

I think I would Brooklyn 17, Crowder, and a future protected 1st for him if that's all it took.

Can franchises trade fans? Celtics should trade you for a couple of Chicago Bull fans. Why would you trade the Brooklyn #1 for anyone not named Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant?

I don't think the player we select with that draft pick will play a pivotal role in us winning our next championship. I think Butler could. So in that sense it's a no brainer for me.

Butler can't even set an example on his team, completely disappear in game 5 and drop his teammates under the bus when in dire situation. He's a fake tough guy. Smart and Bradley completely got into his head and it was evident in game 5.

I'll take him if we can get him for bargain. But for the 2017 BKN first? Hell no. That prospect have way more higher ceiling than Butler. I'd rather invest with the kids than cripple our cap flexibility while competing for a championship.
This.  It's amazing to me that we are having this debate after Butler's lousy game and Bradley's STELLAR game.

Butler top-10 in the NBA?  Hmmm...maybe but definitely not top-5 (which IMO is Harden, Westbrook, Leonard, James, Durant).  I also put Paul George and Steph Curry ahead of him, so he is #8, at best.

The argument wasn't really centered around what you're saying. Butler is better than Crowder, we can all agree on that. It now comes down to that pick. In the last 14 drafts 2 players have been selected number 1, and significant in leading their team to a championship. That's LeBron and Kyrie.

Adding Butler to the starting lineup next year will help our team a lot more than adding Fultz/Ball/Jackson to the bench.

May I suggest an afternoon learning about standard deviation and variance?

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2017, 09:24:57 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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He is an all-star talent individual that's for sure,but as far as carrying his team he isn't on PG/GH's level
That said he clearly isn't worth 17Nets pick

I think I would Brooklyn 17, Crowder, and a future protected 1st for him if that's all it took.

Can franchises trade fans? Celtics should trade you for a couple of Chicago Bull fans. Why would you trade the Brooklyn #1 for anyone not named Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant?

I don't think the player we select with that draft pick will play a pivotal role in us winning our next championship. I think Butler could. So in that sense it's a no brainer for me.

Butler can't even set an example on his team, completely disappear in game 5 and drop his teammates under the bus when in dire situation. He's a fake tough guy. Smart and Bradley completely got into his head and it was evident in game 5.

I'll take him if we can get him for bargain. But for the 2017 BKN first? Hell no. That prospect have way more higher ceiling than Butler. I'd rather invest with the kids than cripple our cap flexibility while competing for a championship.
This.  It's amazing to me that we are having this debate after Butler's lousy game and Bradley's STELLAR game.

Butler top-10 in the NBA?  Hmmm...maybe but definitely not top-5 (which IMO is Harden, Westbrook, Leonard, James, Durant).  I also put Paul George and Steph Curry ahead of him, so he is #8, at best.

The argument wasn't really centered around what you're saying. Butler is better than Crowder, we can all agree on that. It now comes down to that pick. In the last 14 drafts 2 players have been selected number 1, and significant in leading their team to a championship. That's LeBron and Kyrie.

Adding Butler to the starting lineup next year will help our team a lot more than adding Fultz/Ball/Jackson to the bench.
Well that's not really the argument either since it is entirely possible to do both.  However, you are right that Butler improves the team more than any rookie can.  The real question is whether he makes the Celtics a legit title contender (with CLE, GSW, HOU and SA), and I am not sure anymore after seeing him in these playoffs.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2017, 09:44:21 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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A lot of conclusions being drawn from Butler playing against a team that gave him the most trouble during the season as it was.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2017, 10:44:15 AM »

Offline playdream

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He let Smart get into his head last game and now outplayed by Bradley
maybe not who you want to bet on contending with

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2017, 10:48:36 AM »

Offline oldtype

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It's all situation. Just like IT couldn't do it all last year with multiple key players injured, Butler isn't going to thrive when he's their only legit offensive threat.

He'd look amazing on the Celtics.


Great words from a great man

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2017, 12:03:30 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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After watching these last 5 games, I'm selling my stock in Jimmy Butler.  While he's had some tough defenders around him, and his supporting cast doesn't exactly help him spread the floor, he:

-Very often gets Isaiah or someone else on him in a pick and roll, which has helped to inflate his FT and PPG #'s.
-He isn't a particularly great jump shooter / floor spacer himself, therefore he should add value by driving to the rim.
-The Celtics have almost zero rim protection.  Why isn't Butler getting to and finishing around the rim a bunch?

I've tried to compare him to Pierce at the same age, and Paul Pierce was far more aggressive at taking over a game as well as creating offense. 




Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2017, 12:26:32 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I won't entirely defend Butler, but honestly, this looks like the same problem with the C's and especially IT. Butler just doesn't have much help. Rondo is injured and Wade had a great Game 5, but he's obviously not the same Wade anymore. Like last year when C's made the playoffs, but Bradley went down, KO+Crowder played injured, and IT did well but had no help. Even Games 1-2 this series, IT wasn't that bad but didn't have help and it led to some bad losses. Now Butler is experiencing the same with Chicago w/o Rondo and not much help from the bench now.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2017, 08:19:09 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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The difference between IT and Butler is although they both had no help (IT last year and Butler this year) is that Thomas was thrown double teams while Butler was single covered

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2017, 10:20:27 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Butler hasn't been horrible but he's honestly not looking like someone worth a 2017 Nets Pick + Bradley + 2 of Smart/Brown/Crowder. NOT AT ALL.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller