Author Topic: Butler sucking it up this series  (Read 5782 times)

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Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 04:23:34 PM »

Offline RIPRED

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We were debating whether we liked Butler or Paul George better for our team earlier this year.  Not me anymore. Getting in a fracas with the C's 6 or 7 man. Shooting sub 30% from three. And he can't even keep the back of his uniform tucked in. Blech.

Paul George or bust.

Jimmy Butler is the best player in this series by far. Once Rondo went down he's had not much help. Game 4 he had literally no help. He had 33 points on 7-16 shooting, where as the next 3 highest scorers had 37 points on 13-33 shooting. I'd take Jimmy Butler in a heartbeat, and I think what this series has shown is he's a guy the Celtics need. A tough, physical presence that can get a basket whenever he wants.

I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.
Wade is not the third best player in this series.

http://www.blogabull.com/2017/4/25/15421012/playoff-dwyane-wade-was-supposed-to-be-a-good-thing-so-far-bad

Agreed. Wade is washed.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 04:31:28 PM »

Offline playdream

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few years later Rozier/Brown both will be better than JB
Rozier+2firsts, no Nets is what i will offer

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 04:37:39 PM »

Offline Geo123

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20.6 PER

52.6% TS

24.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 5.0 ast, 1.8 stl, 10.3 FTA

Imagine if he were playing on a team that could space the floor (the Celtics, for example).

And not have to bring up the ball many times, guard IT part of the time and play 40+ minutes, people need to look at the whole picture.   

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2017, 04:45:16 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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few years later Rozier/Brown both will be better than JB
Rozier+2firsts, no Nets is what i will offer

Not sure about them .

But , I bet Fultz is going to put up some nice stats for some team that will rival Butler.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2017, 04:48:00 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.

As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 05:21:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.

As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).
Smart has been better than Bradley this series. Dont think its particularly close.

ABs defense isnt that valuable unless the other team has a Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Dame Lillard type and he although he still spaces the floor, his incompetence as a passer and ball handler really limits his effectiveness when he isnt making his jumpers.

This series hes had 1 good game and 3 bad ones.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2017, 05:49:28 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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few years later Rozier/Brown both will be better than JB
Rozier+2firsts, no Nets is what i will offer
Why even bother with a trash offer like that.  I suppose Fultz has a chance to be as good or better than Butler.  But the odds that we end up with a chance to draft fultz are 25%.  All the other prospects could also be good but are not automatics.  I'd take Butler over the rest as he is more a sure thing. 

And no, Rozier has virtually no chance to be better than Butler and I'd put the odds of Brown getting there at 10-15%. 

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2017, 06:05:27 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.

As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).
Smart has been better than Bradley this series. Dont think its particularly close.

ABs defense isnt that valuable unless the other team has a Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Dame Lillard type and he although he still spaces the floor, his incompetence as a passer and ball handler really limits his effectiveness when he isnt making his jumpers.

This series hes had 1 good game and 3 bad ones.

Not only do you say he has been better, but you also say it's not even close. More proof of overrating smart.

Bradley has had one game where is a MINUS on the floor, and thats the same game IT was MINUS 20 something

As a matter of fact Smart was -11 the first game , and Bradley +6

Bradley hit 4 threes that game......Smart didn't play bad in that game , he was the only guy that looked like he was trying the whole game, but it doesnt mean he played better.

Bradley's had 1 bad game, and 2 mediocre ones , and one  slightly above average one.....


Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 07:10:20 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).

I didn't mention stats, so don't put words in my mouth.   It is patently absurd to think any of the players you name are top three players in this series.  I said the rest was debatable.   Stats are measurements of performance, BTW, and I do trust them though they can't measure everything.   They are generally more reliable than our eyes and opinions because they can be empirically measured.  I mean look at the posts above and we see that we have differing opinions of nonstat contributions

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2017, 09:53:24 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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He is an all-star talent individual that's for sure,but as far as carrying his team he isn't on PG/GH's level
That said he clearly isn't worth 17Nets pick

I think I would Brooklyn 17, Crowder, and a future protected 1st for him if that's all it took.

Can franchises trade fans? Celtics should trade you for a couple of Chicago Bull fans. Why would you trade the Brooklyn #1 for anyone not named Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant?

I don't think the player we select with that draft pick will play a pivotal role in us winning our next championship. I think Butler could. So in that sense it's a no brainer for me.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2017, 04:21:01 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.

As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).
Smart has been better than Bradley this series. Dont think its particularly close.

ABs defense isnt that valuable unless the other team has a Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Dame Lillard type and he although he still spaces the floor, his incompetence as a passer and ball handler really limits his effectiveness when he isnt making his jumpers.

This series hes had 1 good game and 3 bad ones.

It was a matter of time

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2017, 04:27:16 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think IT is the best player in the series but Chicago has the two next best players in Butler and Wade.  After that you can have a debate who comes next.

As always, people look at stats and undervalue Bradley and Horford's presence on the court in so many little things (even Smart's, though his poor offensive game keeps him out of this debate).
Smart has been better than Bradley this series. Dont think its particularly close.

ABs defense isnt that valuable unless the other team has a Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Dame Lillard type and he although he still spaces the floor, his incompetence as a passer and ball handler really limits his effectiveness when he isnt making his jumpers.

This series hes had 1 good game and 3 bad ones.

It was a matter of time
Bradley is a better player than Smart and one of the most important players on the Celtics. He outplayed Jimmy Butler, who in my opinion is a borderline top 10 player. Thats massive. Its really important to have a guy who can go out and shut down Jimmy Butler or Kyrie Irving.

All that said, I stand by what I said earlier. Prior to this game Smart had been better than Bradley. Now Smart was mediocre today while AB was an absolute beast. Smart>AB is no longer the case.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2017, 05:38:06 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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He is an all-star talent individual that's for sure,but as far as carrying his team he isn't on PG/GH's level
That said he clearly isn't worth 17Nets pick

I think I would Brooklyn 17, Crowder, and a future protected 1st for him if that's all it took.

Can franchises trade fans? Celtics should trade you for a couple of Chicago Bull fans. Why would you trade the Brooklyn #1 for anyone not named Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant?

I don't think the player we select with that draft pick will play a pivotal role in us winning our next championship. I think Butler could. So in that sense it's a no brainer for me.

Butler can't even set an example on his team, completely disappear in game 5 and drop his teammates under the bus when in dire situation. He's a fake tough guy. Smart and Bradley completely got into his head and it was evident in game 5.

I'll take him if we can get him for bargain. But for the 2017 BKN first? Hell no. That prospect have way more higher ceiling than Butler. I'd rather invest with the kids than cripple our cap flexibility while competing for a championship.

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2017, 06:22:19 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Stats for the series to ponder

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/bos

Re: Butler sucking it up this series
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2017, 07:39:03 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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He is an all-star talent individual that's for sure,but as far as carrying his team he isn't on PG/GH's level
That said he clearly isn't worth 17Nets pick

I think I would Brooklyn 17, Crowder, and a future protected 1st for him if that's all it took.

Can franchises trade fans? Celtics should trade you for a couple of Chicago Bull fans. Why would you trade the Brooklyn #1 for anyone not named Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant?

I don't think the player we select with that draft pick will play a pivotal role in us winning our next championship. I think Butler could. So in that sense it's a no brainer for me.

Butler can't even set an example on his team, completely disappear in game 5 and drop his teammates under the bus when in dire situation. He's a fake tough guy. Smart and Bradley completely got into his head and it was evident in game 5.

I'll take him if we can get him for bargain. But for the 2017 BKN first? Hell no. That prospect have way more higher ceiling than Butler. I'd rather invest with the kids than cripple our cap flexibility while competing for a championship.
This.  It's amazing to me that we are having this debate after Butler's lousy game and Bradley's STELLAR game.

Butler top-10 in the NBA?  Hmmm...maybe but definitely not top-5 (which IMO is Harden, Westbrook, Leonard, James, Durant).  I also put Paul George and Steph Curry ahead of him, so he is #8, at best.