Author Topic: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip  (Read 8850 times)

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Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2017, 12:55:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2017, 01:01:02 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.

Yes and no. In reality, I do end up tipping 20% on all my meals unless something horrific or truly amazing happens. However, I don't think that is how it is really intended. I think in theory a tip should have greater variation than than probably ranging from 15-23% or something like that based on the quality of service and quality of the experience. However, it is harder for people to do math in their head that is not a flat number like 20%, it is tough to come up with a system that you base your variation on etc. So it doesn't really work as intended.

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2017, 01:13:54 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Pop is amazing.

That said, what about the cooks who work just as hard and don't get paid as much as the waitresses?

Tipping is a problematic institution. :P

But yeah, Pop is the best.
well, the cooks and other staff outside of the wait staff make a higher wage.  Wait staff do not get the minimum wage applicable to other jobs but a different minimum wage, which when I worked as a waiter in the mid-80's was $2.01.   I don't think it's gone up much from there.  I had a lot of nights where my tips didn't amount to enough to match minimum wage no matter how good I was at my job.

fully agree that this should be a system of pay that is sunset.
The minimum wage for tipped positions is $2.13 right now, for the curious. However, the employer is obliged to compensate the difference to the federal minimum if it is not made up by tips. If they didn't do that on a weekly basis, they were likely breaking the law.
Really?  [dang] statute of limitations!!!   howard Johnson's owes me a lot of money!!
Well, have in mind that the requirement is that weekly earnings / weekly hours >= min wage, so if your bad days were offset by good days within the same week that was probably fine.
not usually.  I wish I could say otherwise. 

working the graveyard shift 11-7 with several very pretty waitresses didn't generate a lot of tips from the drunks who were p---ed they got me instead of one of the waitresses.  my tips tended to reflect their dissatisfaction with that situation.

lol I was just about to say, that the large tip news invariably involves waitresses and not waiters. Are you saying there is sexual discrimination in the hospitality industry?
sadly.  I liked the waitresses - very nice people - but have to admit I didn't appreciate them counting out their haul at the end of the night and regularly having between $80-100 and I was lucky to make $20 for doing as good (or often better) at serving customers.   

pooling tips would have been a much fairer system.  we didn't have any really bad wait staff so it's not like others would be splitting with someone not pulling their weight. 

fortunately we didn't have to split with the guys in the back - cook, dishwasher/busboy.  would have made for even poorer nights.  off course in our restaurant the busboy didn't work the tables, just kitchen work, so that would have been an issue to split with him

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2017, 01:23:16 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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why dont we strive for equity in pay rather than reduce the country to a welfare economy where poor folks depend on 'charity' from rich people who make obscene amounts of money?

This.

Says it all.

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2017, 01:41:28 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2017, 01:47:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.

Yes and no. In reality, I do end up tipping 20% on all my meals unless something horrific or truly amazing happens. However, I don't think that is how it is really intended. I think in theory a tip should have greater variation than than probably ranging from 15-23% or something like that based on the quality of service and quality of the experience. However, it is harder for people to do math in their head that is not a flat number like 20%, it is tough to come up with a system that you base your variation on etc. So it doesn't really work as intended.
If you have no problem calculating 20%, then you should not have a problem calculating 20% and adding/taking off however many dollars you feel is appropriate. It's an arbitrary amount either way -- it's not like you've mathematically determined that the appropriate tip is exactly 17.85%.

Then again, if you own a smartphone, this entire point is moot. Smartphones have calculators.
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Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2017, 02:14:58 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.

Yes and no. In reality, I do end up tipping 20% on all my meals unless something horrific or truly amazing happens. However, I don't think that is how it is really intended. I think in theory a tip should have greater variation than than probably ranging from 15-23% or something like that based on the quality of service and quality of the experience. However, it is harder for people to do math in their head that is not a flat number like 20%, it is tough to come up with a system that you base your variation on etc. So it doesn't really work as intended.
If you have no problem calculating 20%, then you should not have a problem calculating 20% and adding/taking off however many dollars you feel is appropriate. It's an arbitrary amount either way -- it's not like you've mathematically determined that the appropriate tip is exactly 17.85%.

Then again, if you own a smartphone, this entire point is moot. Smartphones have calculators.

So is this a way you think saying you think our system is not worse than the European system? While I can do 20% in my head, a lot of people probably can't. Also when someone is looking at their menu ordering two drinks and a meal are you suggesting it makes sense everyone should be doing math either in their head or with a calculator on their phone with each item to realize the true cost of everything? I don't really understand how anyone can feel like this system makes sense.

System 1: You order what you want see the prices and add on a few dollars if you think you got good service.

System 2: You go to a restaurant, look on the menu to see whether the restaurants pay their servers a liveable wage and tipping is still expected (probably 5-10% of the restaurants in the bay area are doing this tied to the increase in minimum wage). If they do not pay them a living wage you should add 20% to each menu item you order. If the service is bad, you start deducting an arbritary amount from your bill based on your need and what makes sense. If the service is great you add additional money. You should pay the full 20% if it is a full service restaurant and you order from your table. If it is in between, and you order at the counter, but then food is dropped off at your table, you should tip something, but not 20%. It should be a little more or less depending on whether you are expected to bus your own table and get your own beverages. If it is a buffet, you should tip some, but even less than a restaurant with some level of service.

Which system do you prefer?

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2017, 02:23:41 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.

Yes and no. In reality, I do end up tipping 20% on all my meals unless something horrific or truly amazing happens. However, I don't think that is how it is really intended. I think in theory a tip should have greater variation than than probably ranging from 15-23% or something like that based on the quality of service and quality of the experience. However, it is harder for people to do math in their head that is not a flat number like 20%, it is tough to come up with a system that you base your variation on etc. So it doesn't really work as intended.
If you have no problem calculating 20%, then you should not have a problem calculating 20% and adding/taking off however many dollars you feel is appropriate. It's an arbitrary amount either way -- it's not like you've mathematically determined that the appropriate tip is exactly 17.85%.

Then again, if you own a smartphone, this entire point is moot. Smartphones have calculators.

So is this a way you think saying you think our system is not worse than the European system? While I can do 20% in my head, a lot of people probably can't. Also when someone is looking at their menu ordering two drinks and a meal are you suggesting it makes sense everyone should be doing math either in their head or with a calculator on their phone with each item to realize the true cost of everything? I don't really understand how anyone can feel like this system makes sense.

System 1: You order what you want see the prices and add on a few dollars if you think you got good service.

System 2: You go to a restaurant, look on the menu to see whether the restaurants pay their servers a liveable wage and tipping is still expected (probably 5-10% of the restaurants in the bay area are doing this tied to the increase in minimum wage). If they do not pay them a living wage you should add 20% to each menu item you order. If the service is bad, you start deducting an arbritary amount from your bill based on your need and what makes sense. If the service is great you add additional money. You should pay the full 20% if it is a full service restaurant and you order from your table. If it is in between, and you order at the counter, but then food is dropped off at your table, you should tip something, but not 20%. It should be a little more or less depending on whether you are expected to bus your own table and get your own beverages. If it is a buffet, you should tip some, but even less than a restaurant with some level of service.

Which system do you prefer?
I hope that's just speculation and not some actual provable fact.  would say a lot about the American education system that the average person wouldn't/couldn't be able to double the total and move the decimal point 1 position to the left. 

Calculating 15% (the 'standard' when I waited tables) shouldn't be that difficult either --> take 10% and then add half that to the 10%. 

would also like to add on a side note, I think it's pretty slick of some restaurants to provide the 15/18/20 or 18/20/25 tipping amounts because they're always basing the amounts on the post-tax total which is inappropriate.  the tip is supposed to be based on the bill pre-tax.  most people don't seem to know/realize that.

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2017, 02:33:12 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.

Yes and no. In reality, I do end up tipping 20% on all my meals unless something horrific or truly amazing happens. However, I don't think that is how it is really intended. I think in theory a tip should have greater variation than than probably ranging from 15-23% or something like that based on the quality of service and quality of the experience. However, it is harder for people to do math in their head that is not a flat number like 20%, it is tough to come up with a system that you base your variation on etc. So it doesn't really work as intended.
If you have no problem calculating 20%, then you should not have a problem calculating 20% and adding/taking off however many dollars you feel is appropriate. It's an arbitrary amount either way -- it's not like you've mathematically determined that the appropriate tip is exactly 17.85%.

Then again, if you own a smartphone, this entire point is moot. Smartphones have calculators.

So is this a way you think saying you think our system is not worse than the European system? While I can do 20% in my head, a lot of people probably can't. Also when someone is looking at their menu ordering two drinks and a meal are you suggesting it makes sense everyone should be doing math either in their head or with a calculator on their phone with each item to realize the true cost of everything? I don't really understand how anyone can feel like this system makes sense.

System 1: You order what you want see the prices and add on a few dollars if you think you got good service.

System 2: You go to a restaurant, look on the menu to see whether the restaurants pay their servers a liveable wage and tipping is still expected (probably 5-10% of the restaurants in the bay area are doing this tied to the increase in minimum wage). If they do not pay them a living wage you should add 20% to each menu item you order. If the service is bad, you start deducting an arbritary amount from your bill based on your need and what makes sense. If the service is great you add additional money. You should pay the full 20% if it is a full service restaurant and you order from your table. If it is in between, and you order at the counter, but then food is dropped off at your table, you should tip something, but not 20%. It should be a little more or less depending on whether you are expected to bus your own table and get your own beverages. If it is a buffet, you should tip some, but even less than a restaurant with some level of service.

Which system do you prefer?
I hope that's just speculation and not some actual provable fact.  would say a lot about the American education system that the average person wouldn't/couldn't be able to double the total and move the decimal point 1 position to the left. 

Calculating 15% (the 'standard' when I waited tables) shouldn't be that difficult either --> take 10% and then add half that to the 10%. 

would also like to add on a side note, I think it's pretty slick of some restaurants to provide the 15/18/20 or 18/20/25 tipping amounts because they're always basing the amounts on the post-tax total which is inappropriate.  the tip is supposed to be based on the bill pre-tax.  most people don't seem to know/realize that.

for a long time I did not know that.... there were even times when I tipped after the gratuity had been added to the bill. Just pay the staff, and stop this system that is sometimes mishandled by restaurants. By the way, when did standard tips become 20%?

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2017, 02:35:38 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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As someone that just traveled for a few weeks I must say the European tipping system worked a lot better for me. You put a few euros out and maybe one more if the service is really good (which it frequently wasn't, particularly in Paris, but it wasn't unbearable either). It just felt a lot more comfortable having the exact cost of my meal and feeling like I could be nice and add a little extra if I desire.

In the US I constantly find myself just adding the same amount of money whether a server was mediocre to good and it is not longer really an incentive or actually a tip, but more of a hospitality tax. I have to imagine the servers would also generally prefer a stable salary because a bartender was just talking to me yesterday about how his income is entirely dependent on factors outside his control. For example, the Warriors were probably going to have a game 5 yesterday and he would have made hundreds of dollars etc (the bars get really packed for that). Cause the warriors swept his income goes way down for the week/month.
That's not fundamentally different, though. The cost in the US is what you see on the bill + 20% and you can shave off of that however much you'd like if you didn't like the service.

Yes and no. In reality, I do end up tipping 20% on all my meals unless something horrific or truly amazing happens. However, I don't think that is how it is really intended. I think in theory a tip should have greater variation than than probably ranging from 15-23% or something like that based on the quality of service and quality of the experience. However, it is harder for people to do math in their head that is not a flat number like 20%, it is tough to come up with a system that you base your variation on etc. So it doesn't really work as intended.
If you have no problem calculating 20%, then you should not have a problem calculating 20% and adding/taking off however many dollars you feel is appropriate. It's an arbitrary amount either way -- it's not like you've mathematically determined that the appropriate tip is exactly 17.85%.

Then again, if you own a smartphone, this entire point is moot. Smartphones have calculators.

So is this a way you think saying you think our system is not worse than the European system? While I can do 20% in my head, a lot of people probably can't. Also when someone is looking at their menu ordering two drinks and a meal are you suggesting it makes sense everyone should be doing math either in their head or with a calculator on their phone with each item to realize the true cost of everything? I don't really understand how anyone can feel like this system makes sense.

System 1: You order what you want see the prices and add on a few dollars if you think you got good service.

System 2: You go to a restaurant, look on the menu to see whether the restaurants pay their servers a liveable wage and tipping is still expected (probably 5-10% of the restaurants in the bay area are doing this tied to the increase in minimum wage). If they do not pay them a living wage you should add 20% to each menu item you order. If the service is bad, you start deducting an arbritary amount from your bill based on your need and what makes sense. If the service is great you add additional money. You should pay the full 20% if it is a full service restaurant and you order from your table. If it is in between, and you order at the counter, but then food is dropped off at your table, you should tip something, but not 20%. It should be a little more or less depending on whether you are expected to bus your own table and get your own beverages. If it is a buffet, you should tip some, but even less than a restaurant with some level of service.

Which system do you prefer?
I hope that's just speculation and not some actual provable fact. would say a lot about the American education system that the average person wouldn't/couldn't be able to double the total and move the decimal point 1 position to the left. 

Calculating 15% (the 'standard' when I waited tables) shouldn't be that difficult either --> take 10% and then add half that to the 10%. 

would also like to add on a side note, I think it's pretty slick of some restaurants to provide the 15/18/20 or 18/20/25 tipping amounts because they're always basing the amounts on the post-tax total which is inappropriate.  the tip is supposed to be based on the bill pre-tax.  most people don't seem to know/realize that.

Sadly, you would be shocked at the people that really struggle with basic math like this.

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2017, 02:48:32 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Do servers even want a "living wage"?

I know when I waited tables, $15 per hour with no tips would have been a pretty drastic pay cut.


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Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2017, 03:24:39 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Do servers even want a "living wage"?

I know when I waited tables, $15 per hour with no tips would have been a pretty drastic pay cut.

It is mixed I think. If you are a low end place and it is consistent, it is not a bad thing. That is also really the minimum they will pay. They can make more than that.

Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2017, 04:56:17 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Do servers even want a "living wage"?

I know when I waited tables, $15 per hour with no tips would have been a pretty drastic pay cut.

It is mixed I think. If you are a low end place and it is consistent, it is not a bad thing. That is also really the minimum they will pay. They can make more than that.
I imagine a system where servers all have to be paid minimum wage, at least, they would still make some tips, just less than the standard 20% now. It would probably even out in most places.
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Re: Gregg Popovich may have given a Memphis server a $5,000 tip
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2017, 05:28:53 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Do servers even want a "living wage"?

I know when I waited tables, $15 per hour with no tips would have been a pretty drastic pay cut.

It is mixed I think. If you are a low end place and it is consistent, it is not a bad thing. That is also really the minimum they will pay. They can make more than that.
I imagine a system where servers all have to be paid minimum wage, at least, they would still make some tips, just less than the standard 20% now. It would probably even out in most places.
the restaurants doing this in the bay really discourage tipping. If you pay with card there is not even a spot to add a tip