Author Topic: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)  (Read 7415 times)

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Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2017, 07:52:43 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2017, 07:59:39 PM »

Offline mahcussmaht

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.
You can't just waste a #3 pick.  That's a big investment.  You have to at least try to develop him.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen sucked this year and has a long way to go until he's even as good as Gerald Green.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen wasn't one of the Top 20 rookies in PER this season.  It doesn't change the fact that there were 20 players age 21 and under who outperformed Jaylen this season.   Karl Towns is only 11 months older than him and averaged 25 and 12 this season.   The age thing is a weak excuse.  Devin Booker is younger than him and scored 70 in a game.  The guys available in the Top 4 of this draft are younger than him and yet they are light years ahead of him already.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2017, 08:01:15 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.

That is a great point. Examine the difference between Young and Brown. Young hasn't even earned "given minutes" based on His pedigree or progression during a rebuild. Contrast that with Brown who has gotten significant minutes during the pinnacle of our short rebuild so far? That should speak volumes towards the confidence Stevens and Ainge have in Brown.
#JKJB

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2017, 08:01:52 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.
You can't just waste a #3 pick.  That's a big investment.  You have to at least try to develop him.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen sucked this year and has a long way to go until he's even as good as Gerald Green.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen wasn't one of the Top 20 rookies in PER this season.  It doesn't change the fact that there were 20 players age 21 and under who outperformed Jaylen this season.   Karl Towns is only 11 months older than him and averaged 25 and 12 this season.   The age thing is a weak excuse.  Devin Booker is younger than him and scored 70 in a game.  The guys available in the Top 4 of this draft are younger than him and yet they are light years ahead of him already.
PER is a really Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty way to evaluate a rookie on a 53 win team.

you are really making some horrible arguments here.

I would agree that the top 4 guys in this draft being better prospects than him, but thats more of a function of an elite top 4 than Jaylen brown being a lost cause.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2017, 08:13:15 PM »

Offline mahcussmaht

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.
You can't just waste a #3 pick.  That's a big investment.  You have to at least try to develop him.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen sucked this year and has a long way to go until he's even as good as Gerald Green.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen wasn't one of the Top 20 rookies in PER this season.  It doesn't change the fact that there were 20 players age 21 and under who outperformed Jaylen this season.   Karl Towns is only 11 months older than him and averaged 25 and 12 this season.   The age thing is a weak excuse.  Devin Booker is younger than him and scored 70 in a game.  The guys available in the Top 4 of this draft are younger than him and yet they are light years ahead of him already.
PER is a really ****ty way to evaluate a rookie on a 53 win team.

you are really making some horrible arguments here.

I would agree that the top 4 guys in this draft being better prospects than him, but thats more of a function of an elite top 4 than Jaylen brown being a lost cause.
You guys seem to use the logic that because Demetrius Jackson also happens to be young, he might be as good as Markelle Fultz in a few years.   

Jaylen Brown sucks.  Maybe 12 years from now he'll be as good as Gerald Green, but right now he sucks.  He's nowhere near as good as any player in the Top 4 of this draft.   Do you guys also see Marquese Chriss as equally valuable to the 2017 Suns pick?

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2017, 08:13:15 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Jaylen Brown isn't good.  The Brooklyn pick is 10x more valuable.
Not sure which Jaylen Brown you have been watching but he is loaded with talent and upside. I am not sure that Jackson and Tatum are going to be all that much better, if better at all, than Brown in 4-5 years when they are established pros.
I'm watching the Jaylen Brown that got back-to-back DNPs.  He's not good at basketball.  Earlier in the season many people were questioning if he eventually would be as good as Jeff Green.  Now I think we'll be lucky if he's ever as good as Gerald Green.  He sucked in College and he sucks in the pros.  He had a PER of 10.3 this season.  Only James Young, Jordan Mickey and Jonas Jerebko were worse.  Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Tatum are light years ahead of him already.  There is no debate here.  The Brooklyn pick is 10x more valuable.
Brooklyn pick is more valuable, but Jaylen Brown is gonna be way better than Gerald Green.

It's a little premature to say either that Brown sucks or that he's gonna be way better than The Immortal Gerald Green. Chuckle. Still laughing at that one.

He finished the season well, but his playoff performances have been nothing short of horrendous. Quite discouraging to see how he has reacted to the pressure of the different playoff style. So there's really no doubt which is more valuable, and it's not Jaylen Brown at this point.
The only reason Jaylen even played over Gerald this season was out of obligation to force feed developmental minutes to a player we wasted a #3 pick on.  Now that it's playoff time, it's clear Jaylen can't hold a candle to Gerald Green.  Had we given Gerald minutes next to our starters instead of Jaylen, he'd have shot much higher percentages.  Gerald is a better player than Jaylen right now.   Any player we take in the top 4 will be much better than both of them.

Brown filled in admirably when we were without Bradley. He averaged 10.5 and 4 on 49% shooting during the month of February when the Celtics were very good going 8-4. Maybe he has gotten tired or something, but you can't deny he proved he had legit potential during that stretch at 20 years old.
That reminded me of when Big Baby Davis "filled in admirably" for Kevin Garnett in 2009.  He averaged close to 20 and 10 playing with our starters taking all the attention.  Big Baby sucked too, though.   Jaylen had the 3rd lowest PER on our entire team.  He was a ghost out there on offense for most of the game and his defense was terrible.  He wasn't good.  We would have been better off giving those minutes to Gerald.  Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Pretty weird takes you got going here.
First off, if there was ever a month long stretch where Big Baby ever averaged 20-10 I really don't remember it all and would love to know what month that was. Do you mean a single game?

Furthermore, If you want to go with this Big Baby comparison there was a time that Big Baby was a very effective NBA player. He would have had a very solid career if he didn't eat himself out of the league. Unless you have some fear that Brown is going to follow a similar path of eating himself out, I don't understand your point.

Not really sure what else to say here other than he did solid as a raw 20 year old on a team that got the top seed in the east.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2017, 08:14:42 PM »

Offline mahcussmaht

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Jaylen Brown isn't good.  The Brooklyn pick is 10x more valuable.
Not sure which Jaylen Brown you have been watching but he is loaded with talent and upside. I am not sure that Jackson and Tatum are going to be all that much better, if better at all, than Brown in 4-5 years when they are established pros.
I'm watching the Jaylen Brown that got back-to-back DNPs.  He's not good at basketball.  Earlier in the season many people were questioning if he eventually would be as good as Jeff Green.  Now I think we'll be lucky if he's ever as good as Gerald Green.  He sucked in College and he sucks in the pros.  He had a PER of 10.3 this season.  Only James Young, Jordan Mickey and Jonas Jerebko were worse.  Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Tatum are light years ahead of him already.  There is no debate here.  The Brooklyn pick is 10x more valuable.
Brooklyn pick is more valuable, but Jaylen Brown is gonna be way better than Gerald Green.

It's a little premature to say either that Brown sucks or that he's gonna be way better than The Immortal Gerald Green. Chuckle. Still laughing at that one.

He finished the season well, but his playoff performances have been nothing short of horrendous. Quite discouraging to see how he has reacted to the pressure of the different playoff style. So there's really no doubt which is more valuable, and it's not Jaylen Brown at this point.
The only reason Jaylen even played over Gerald this season was out of obligation to force feed developmental minutes to a player we wasted a #3 pick on.  Now that it's playoff time, it's clear Jaylen can't hold a candle to Gerald Green.  Had we given Gerald minutes next to our starters instead of Jaylen, he'd have shot much higher percentages.  Gerald is a better player than Jaylen right now.   Any player we take in the top 4 will be much better than both of them.

Brown filled in admirably when we were without Bradley. He averaged 10.5 and 4 on 49% shooting during the month of February when the Celtics were very good going 8-4. Maybe he has gotten tired or something, but you can't deny he proved he had legit potential during that stretch at 20 years old.
That reminded me of when Big Baby Davis "filled in admirably" for Kevin Garnett in 2009.  He averaged close to 20 and 10 playing with our starters taking all the attention.  Big Baby sucked too, though.   Jaylen had the 3rd lowest PER on our entire team.  He was a ghost out there on offense for most of the game and his defense was terrible.  He wasn't good.  We would have been better off giving those minutes to Gerald.  Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Pretty weird takes you got going here.
First off, if there was ever a month long stretch where Big Baby ever averaged 20-10 I really don't remember it all and would love to know what month that was. Do you mean a single game?

Furthermore, If you want to go with this Big Baby comparison there was a time that Big Baby was a very effective NBA player. He would have had a very solid career if he didn't eat himself out of the league. Unless you have some fear that Brown is going to follow a similar path of eating himself out, I don't understand your point.

Not really sure what else to say here other than he did solid as a raw 20 year old on a team that got the top seed in the east.

The Debate:  Marquese Chriss or the Suns pick (not both).  Which do you take?

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2017, 08:54:07 PM »

Offline RGow8

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The rookie wall is a real thing,  And Brown has not exactly had the longest leash all year, esp now in playoffs. One thing if he was getting ton of minutes and constantly failing but not he case. Can't compare him to a consensus number 1 pick like Towns who has the keys to a bad franchise for two years now. Completely different situations, that said I would value the Brooklyn more if it's top 2 maybe 3. But saying Brown sucks and might be as good as Gerald Green( who I've always rooted for ever since we drafted him) in 12 years is crazy and almost think your trolling and don't actually watch the games.
 And if you wanna look at stats Brown has the exact same per 36 stats as Paul George as a rookie who didn't become what he is till years in when Granger went down. Raw Athletic wings can take time to develop, not saying he will be George but he has the tools and is way better skill wise then Green was as a rookie by far. Saying Brown sucks and will never be good seems asinine and just like you hated the pick from the start.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:10:27 PM by RGow8 »

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2017, 09:11:51 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.
You can't just waste a #3 pick.  That's a big investment.  You have to at least try to develop him.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen sucked this year and has a long way to go until he's even as good as Gerald Green.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen wasn't one of the Top 20 rookies in PER this season.  It doesn't change the fact that there were 20 players age 21 and under who outperformed Jaylen this season.   Karl Towns is only 11 months older than him and averaged 25 and 12 this season.   The age thing is a weak excuse.  Devin Booker is younger than him and scored 70 in a game.  The guys available in the Top 4 of this draft are younger than him and yet they are light years ahead of him already.
Please tell me all these players drafted after Brown that Ainge should have drafted that had such spectacular years. Btw, PER is a garbage stat. And as rookies its even worse, especially for rookies that like Brown that have to earn their time through defense and don't get tons of minutes or the opportunity to be a #1 or #2 offensive option which would propel his PER up higher.

Your instant stance on Brown's ability shows me whatever I have to say is pointless since you're only going to come back with he sucks. You obviously are stuck in stats and can't see his incredible athleticism, very good shooting form, explosion to the basket, desire to drive and create offense, above average passing ability, tremendous work ethic, very high BBIQ or great one on one potential on man defense. I guess he is only going to change your mind if he puts up a hollow  70 point game or can become 7 foot tall and average 20 and 10 next year.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2017, 09:13:44 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.
You can't just waste a #3 pick.  That's a big investment.  You have to at least try to develop him.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen sucked this year and has a long way to go until he's even as good as Gerald Green.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen wasn't one of the Top 20 rookies in PER this season.  It doesn't change the fact that there were 20 players age 21 and under who outperformed Jaylen this season.   Karl Towns is only 11 months older than him and averaged 25 and 12 this season.   The age thing is a weak excuse.  Devin Booker is younger than him and scored 70 in a game.  The guys available in the Top 4 of this draft are younger than him and yet they are light years ahead of him already.
PER is a really ****ty way to evaluate a rookie on a 53 win team.

you are really making some horrible arguments here.

I would agree that the top 4 guys in this draft being better prospects than him, but thats more of a function of an elite top 4 than Jaylen brown being a lost cause.
You guys seem to use the logic that because Demetrius Jackson also happens to be young, he might be as good as Markelle Fultz in a few years.   

Jaylen Brown sucks.  Maybe 12 years from now he'll be as good as Gerald Green, but right now he sucks.  He's nowhere near as good as any player in the Top 4 of this draft.   Do you guys also see Marquese Chriss as equally valuable to the 2017 Suns pick?

Jaylen Brown sucks?

As good as Gerald in 12 years?

Absolutely terrible.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours is trash, and frankly, seems  a lot like trolling to me.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2017, 09:26:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Also, I question whether Tatum or Jackson will be better players than Brown long term. I am not going to label them as being in a higher tier of talent just yet.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 09:34:50 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Look, Jaylen is my favorite current Celtic for what he COULD become, his attitude, and the huge flashes of potential he showed all the time (playoffs excluded, his defensive lapses have been Rozier-esque.) Yet even I can see that the BRK pick is more valuable than Brown. The BRK pick is literally gold. This draft is considered stacked and top heavy, and we own the top. Literally worst case scenario we end up with a tier 1/2 prospect.

Brown could become a great player once his mind catches up to his body and abilities, but it would take a lot of things going wrong for our brk pick to NOT be atleast a borderline all-star level talent.

I wonder if I should use my powers of invisibility for good or for evil 😂
#JKJB

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2017, 09:02:55 AM »

Offline SuddenFame

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Pacers aren't giving away PG13 for Jaylen Brown. An offer for him starts with the 2017 pick, & they'll want more than just the pick.

Pacers don't have the leverage they had 3 months ago.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2017, 10:20:08 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Jaylen got the minutes because we are trying to develop him.

Which means Ainge and CBS see some value in developing him.
You can't just waste a #3 pick.  That's a big investment.  You have to at least try to develop him.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen sucked this year and has a long way to go until he's even as good as Gerald Green.  It doesn't change the fact that Jaylen wasn't one of the Top 20 rookies in PER this season.  It doesn't change the fact that there were 20 players age 21 and under who outperformed Jaylen this season.   Karl Towns is only 11 months older than him and averaged 25 and 12 this season.   The age thing is a weak excuse.  Devin Booker is younger than him and scored 70 in a game.  The guys available in the Top 4 of this draft are younger than him and yet they are light years ahead of him already.
PER is a really ****ty way to evaluate a rookie on a 53 win team.

you are really making some horrible arguments here.

I would agree that the top 4 guys in this draft being better prospects than him, but thats more of a function of an elite top 4 than Jaylen brown being a lost cause.
You guys seem to use the logic that because Demetrius Jackson also happens to be young, he might be as good as Markelle Fultz in a few years.   

Jaylen Brown sucks.  Maybe 12 years from now he'll be as good as Gerald Green, but right now he sucks.  He's nowhere near as good as any player in the Top 4 of this draft.   Do you guys also see Marquese Chriss as equally valuable to the 2017 Suns pick?

I don't see how Jaylen Brown "sucks". He's inconsistent sure, so are most young guys. He's had games where he's gone toe to toe with Lebron and more than held his own. He had a stretch starting at the 2 spot where we went on a win streak. Throughout the year he visibly improved his jump shot and showed a wider repertoire of offensive moves. He shot 34.3% from 3 for the season, great for a rookie who was expected to struggle shooting before the season, he also has a TS% of 70%, which is fantastic for any player and just what you want from a role player.

Re: The Debate: Jaylen Brown or Brooklyn Pick (not both)
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2017, 10:22:41 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Pacers aren't giving away PG13 for Jaylen Brown. An offer for him starts with the 2017 pick, & they'll want more than just the pick.

Pacers don't have the leverage they had 3 months ago.

Yeah, and if we were able to come to an agreement with Hayward, they would likely be getting AB and Crowder, as well. That would be quite a haul for a player with one year left on his contract who has no real reason to stick around Indy (and has stated his desire to leave).

As for the Brown vs BKN pick, I agree with others that the pick is probably worth more since it is still an unknown and Jaylen didn't blow it out of the water this year. I do think it's close, though, as Jaylen still has shown major potential.