Poll

Would you make this trade

Yes
42 (47.7%)
No
43 (48.9%)
It is what it Is.
3 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 88

Author Topic: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George  (Read 7345 times)

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Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2017, 09:40:28 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Hasn't our pathetic showing against the 8th seeded 41 wins Bulls demonstrated the limited value of role players like Bradley and Crowder? We need a massive infusion of star quality talent. Bring in both Hayward and George. Crowder, Bradley, and Brooklyn '17 for George? No problem, even without any kind of guarantee from George.

That's pretty dumb. The whole point of not making that kind of trade for George this year, was because Bird believe he could upgrade the roster enough to make George stay. Now that a year has passed, and George is even more stressed. Bird will really not have much leeway in negoitiations, so color me surprised if he gets even anywhere near that from us...

Yeah, that's a terrible trade... Especially for a one year rental, and no guarantee? Pfft.  ???

Thanks for your immature and insulting comments. The idea behind such a trade is that you have to trade guaranteed 2017-2018 salary in order to possibly bring in both George and Hayward, not expirings and a 2018 pick. All of our significant 2017-2018 guaranteed contracts  are core players or Brooklyn '17, so that will be the cost for George. Bird will simply demand it or just try to move him to the Lakers or possibly a contender or even keep him until the trade deadline. Once George is here and playing with Thomas, Horford, Hayward, and competing for the Eastern Conference Championship and possibly the NBA Championship, is he really going to sign on with the dumpster fire that is the Lakers franchise? That doesn't seem like logical behavior to me.

Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2017, 10:13:38 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Hasn't our pathetic showing against the 8th seeded 41 wins Bulls demonstrated the limited value of role players like Bradley and Crowder? We need a massive infusion of star quality talent. Bring in both Hayward and George. Crowder, Bradley, and Brooklyn '17 for George? No problem, even without any kind of guarantee from George.

That's pretty dumb. The whole point of not making that kind of trade for George this year, was because Bird believe he could upgrade the roster enough to make George stay. Now that a year has passed, and George is even more stressed. Bird will really not have much leeway in negoitiations, so color me surprised if he gets even anywhere near that from us...

Yeah, that's a terrible trade... Especially for a one year rental, and no guarantee? Pfft.  ???

Thanks for your immature and insulting comments. The idea behind such a trade is that you have to trade guaranteed 2017-2018 salary in order to possibly bring in both George and Hayward, not expirings and a 2018 pick. All of our significant 2017-2018 guaranteed contracts  are core players or Brooklyn '17, so that will be the cost for George. Bird will simply demand it or just try to move him to the Lakers or possibly a contender or even keep him until the trade deadline. Once George is here and playing with Thomas, Horford, Hayward, and competing for the Eastern Conference Championship and possibly the NBA Championship, is he really going to sign on with the dumpster fire that is the Lakers franchise? That doesn't seem like logical behavior to me.

I do apologize. I'm sorry I came off that way, I have a very sarcastic sense of humor.

I just can't see Ainge making that kind of a rash decision. I would love both Hayward and George, but it's a tough pill to swallow.
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Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2017, 10:13:41 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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All sorts of options if this went down. We could still sign Hayward and draft say Jackson.

 Horford
 George
 Hayward
 Jackson
 Thomas

 How's that for a big small ball lineup and that's still with  Smart and Brown in the mix.

 Or we could go

 Horford​
 Milsap
 George
 Fultz
 Thomas

 That team is a title contender year one. It's a shame Milsap is old but Hopefully Yabu is the next generation.

We can't sign Hayward - even as it stands, we don't have the cap space.  Given his experience level, a max deal for Hayward would be about $30.3M - we dill not have that much cap space unless we renounce half our team.

Trading Crowder and Bradley for George would mean taking on an additional $4M above what we are sending out, which means are even further away from having max money.

I'm also not convinced that adding George would be enough of a difference maker to justify giving up Bradley, George and a potential top 5 pick in 2018.  George can replace either Bradley or Crowder (at either SG or SF) but we have nobody good enough to replace the other.  Smart is not good enough to start, Jaylen Brown is still too inexperienced, and even if we do get Fultz/Ball in the draft (not a given) we have no idea how capable they will be of contributing from day one - we can only hope for the best.

Plus there's the simply factor of asset value.  Bradley an Crowder are excellent, young, two-way starters who still have upside, and they are on bargain contracts.  The 2018 pick could easily fall top 5.  That's too much to give up for Paul George - he's good, but I'm not convinced he's THAT good.  For a haul like that I'd be expecting a player more in the realm of Anthony Davis / Kevin Durant / Steph Curry. True, undebatable superstars.   

I'd give up Bradley OR Crowder and the 2018 pick, but not all three. 

Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2017, 10:21:44 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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How could we still sign Hayward in free agency after that trade? We will already struggle to open the necessary space, making a trade where we take on money makes it even harder. Milsap's max is higher than Hayward's as well.

So the teams wouldn't look like you describe. You'd have to send the Nets 17 in this trade instead of the Nets 18.

Would I make that trade? Tempting for the upgrade in talent but no not without George agreeing to an extension, which I doubt he does.

Paul George will make $19.3M

AB will make $8.8M
Crowder will make $6.8M
The #3 pick (for instance) will make $4.7

For a total of $20.3M

I am sure my numbers are off and I will be corrected, but a basic trade that KGLL has laid out, plus a signing of Hayward should be able to be completed later in the summer after the 30 days has gone by for our rookie signing. Trading for Butler in this scenario is actually a lot easier since he will only make $17.5M next year and, of course, is signed for an extra year.

Anyway, if trading for either George or Butler guaranteed us Hayward, then yes, of course I do the deal (although losing Crowder and our 2017 pick will absolutely obliterate our future cap).

KGLL is proposing that we trade the 2018 pick and keep the 2017 pick.  That is the problem with his numbers.

Oops - my bad and tp for the catch.

KGLL, you may want to start the poll over using the '17 pick instead of '18 so it is a deal that is actually allowable.

If the deal you are proposing 'guarantees' us signing Hayward, then people may look at it as a viable one. If we do however get the #1, then it may not be as palatable (I used #3 in my salary number).

By the time any deal was actually executed, we would already know where the pick landed (and who it was) and whether or not Hayward was signing here.

Unfortunately changing it from the 2018 to 2017 pick also means that I say no immediately. 

There is no way I'm giving up Bradley, Crowder and an almost certain top 3 pick for a rental of Paul George, plus the hope that Hayward MIGHT sign here.  Change it to Butler instead of George and I'd be more inclined to consider it - but even then I'd probably say not.  It's just too much to give up. 

As far as I'm aware Hayward isn't even a free agent.  Doesn't he have a player option?  If so, then why would he opt out of that and sign with Boston (who is struggling to get past the Bulls in the first round) when his own Utah team is up 3-2 on the Clippers?  In his position I'd want to see how I can go this year, and if I made it to the second round I'd want to stick out the rest of my contract and see what happens...rather then bail early on a team that is doing so well.

Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2017, 11:05:17 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I'm almost sure Ainge has Hayward in the bag. He was strangely quiet at the trade deadline, and I figured he had something up his sleeve. Woj seems to be thinking the same thing lately.

I think I'll leave George to Larry. He's got his hands full keeping him from the Lakers, where George would prefer to go unless he stays with the Pacers. George has some kind of a clause where he can be a FA next year? if he makes the all star team?  I don't know what the status of that is. Maybe it's covered in one of the posts here.

I see the Celts have come back tonite , and are well ahead with a few minutes left. Impressive comeback after a disappointing game until the 4Q. I think it's important for them to get deeper into the playoffs--it could make a difference on how FAs like Hayward view them.

Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #65 on: April 26, 2017, 11:13:27 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Bradley is going to be an expiring contract so unless you plan on paying him 20 million or so for 4 years he should absolutely be moved.  Plus he is a nice player but is no where near a difference making type player.  Crowder has a great contract and is a quality role player but he is a 5th starter on a title team type player at best.  I mean look at the Warriors and Cavs, Crowder is basically Thompson on the Cavs and is behind Iggy on the Warriors.  So the trade basically comes down to George for the pick and some expendable role players.  I can totally see why someone might rather keep the pick then risk George leaving in a year but Crowder or Bradley should never be the hang up on a clear upgrade trade especially when you expect Brown to eclipse both of them.
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Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2017, 11:21:01 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'm almost sure Ainge has Hayward in the bag. He was strangely quiet at the trade deadline, and I figured he had something up his sleeve. Woj seems to be thinking the same thing lately.

I think I'll leave George to Larry. He's got his hands full keeping him from the Lakers, where George would prefer to go unless he stays with the Pacers. George has some kind of a clause where he can be a FA next year? if he makes the all star team?  I don't know what the status of that is. Maybe it's covered in one of the posts here.

I see the Celts have come back tonite , and are well ahead with a few minutes left. Impressive comeback after a disappointing game until the 4Q. I think it's important for them to get deeper into the playoffs--it could make a difference on how FAs like Hayward view them.

If Utah advances (which they likely will), I'd kiss that dream good bye.

I think Griffin loves LA too and even if he did leave, his injury history certainly raises a red flag although he certainly would be a perfect fit here and great addition to the front court.
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Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2017, 11:22:34 PM »

Offline flybono

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Dump Brown who cannot play a kick of D..

Keep Bradley who can play D

Re: Poll: Avery, Jae, Nets 2018 for George
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2017, 12:39:33 AM »

Offline MattyIce

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I'm almost sure Ainge has Hayward in the bag. He was strangely quiet at the trade deadline, and I figured he had something up his sleeve. Woj seems to be thinking the same thing lately.

I think I'll leave George to Larry. He's got his hands full keeping him from the Lakers, where George would prefer to go unless he stays with the Pacers. George has some kind of a clause where he can be a FA next year? if he makes the all star team?  I don't know what the status of that is. Maybe it's covered in one of the posts here.

I see the Celts have come back tonite , and are well ahead with a few minutes left. Impressive comeback after a disappointing game until the 4Q. I think it's important for them to get deeper into the playoffs--it could make a difference on how FAs like Hayward view them.

If Utah advances (which they likely will), I'd kiss that dream good bye.

I think Griffin loves LA too and even if he did leave, his injury history certainly raises a red flag although he certainly would be a perfect fit here and great addition to the front court.

although i've had the same line of thinking , what if they get swept by gsw?