Author Topic: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?  (Read 2755 times)

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How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« on: April 24, 2017, 02:57:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I was thinking about this based on the expectations thread, that is actually quite a lot. Some of these are debatable, but I do think most of them he would based on team need and who they currently start.

Cavs: Yes

Jr Smith at 32 is on the decline and defense has far and away been the biggest issue for the Cavs this season. They have plenty of offensive firepower with Lebron, Love and Irving and Smart would help cover for Irving's weakness on defense and allow Lebron to expend less effort on defense (this honestly seems like a no brainer)

Bucks : Yes

While Snell is a better shooter, I think that Smart's overall defensive game more than offsets that and think he would start. However, this is debatable.

Toronto: No.

He clearly would not start over Demar

Warriors: No
He clearly would not start over Klay

Blazers: No he clearly would not start over Mccollum

Memphis: Yes

He is clearly a better player than 40 year old Vince Carter or James Ennis. They would a much better team with Smart alongside Conley and Gasol in the starting lineup.

Utah: Yes

I think he is a much more complete player than Ingles and would slot along the offensive firepower of Hill and Hayward.

Spurs: Yes
Green has quietly not improved at all since his games in the finals years back and shooting 37 and 39% from the field the last two years is not enough to make up for the difference in defense and playmaking between the two.

Bulls: No (but maybe should)
It would probably actually make sense for them to not start Butler and Wade together given Wade's injuries and edge, but they would probably never do it over egos.

Wizards: No
He is not as good as Beal.

Atlanta: Maybe, probably not
Hardaway has certainly had a great second half of the season and Smart would probably fit worse alongside schroeder. That being said, I do think Smart is the better player and that would be a fearsome defense backcourt.

Celtics: No
Obviously

Pacers: Yes
He is a better player than CJ Miles and would help cover for the defensive weakness of Teague

Clippers:  Probably not
With Blake out they need the offensive firepower Reddick offers, but perhaps as next season the aging Reddick may slot in behind Smart and Crawford would further see his role reduced as he approaches 40 years old.

I know I am forgetting a few playoff teams but am running out of time and will come back and edit this.

So you make a case that Smart could start for at least 6 of the teams in the playoffs, including the defending champions, and maybe half of them. I think looking at it throw that lens maybe may make some appreciate Smart more.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 03:05:10 PM by celticsclay »

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 03:05:44 PM »

Offline positivitize

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Interesting thought experiment. I agree with your assessment. But I am a totally biased Smart-loving homer with the greenest of green goggles on, so my opinion doesn't count as much as those level-headed clear-eyed objectivist Smart-haters raters out there.
My biases, in order of fervor:
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Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Kemba, Grant Williams, Sleepy Williams, Edwards!

Anti:
Kanter, Semi, Theis, Poierier

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 03:28:52 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 03:44:06 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Should we also do this for Exum and Elfrid P and Gary Harris and LaVine and Aaron Gordon? You can say this about a lot of players, right? I mean Cory Joseph. The backup in Toronto. He starts for a bunch of these teams right?

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 03:47:42 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 03:55:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Ok first off guys. If you want to be constructive and have a good debate, why not actually add some sort of real argument to your point. I can make a pretty compelling case that Smart was an upgrade over Smith for example this season.

Smith, while bothered by injuries, averaged 8.5 points and shot 34% from the floor overall. The scoring average was his lowest in 11 years and the shooting percentage was the lowest of his career. He was little help on the boards averaging 2.8 and not much of a playmaker on offense averaging 1.5 assists.

You then take into the account that the Cavaliers how an absolutely amazing offense but where one of the worst defending teams in the league. Both of you somehow think they would want to add another shooter instead of working to improve their defensive and offsetting Smith's lousy offense and defense?

I mean honestly, if you actually took the time to think about this it is incredibly hard to argue that the Cavs would not have been a better team starting Smart over Smith in the games he started this year. Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Also before you go over the top and say every team wants shooters, realize there are elite defensive players that are bad shooters that are starting on playoff teams. Do you guys watch other teams at all? Roberson is a prime example of this starting for the Thunder. He shot 24% from 3 this year and was such a poor foul shooter he was intentionally fouled 5-6 times yesterday going 1-13 from the line or something close to that. He makes Smart look like Steph Curry. Yet there he is starting for the Thunder and making a positive impact with his defense. SMH at ignorance.

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 04:04:36 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Should we also do this for Exum and Elfrid P and Gary Harris and LaVine and Aaron Gordon? You can say this about a lot of players, right? I mean Cory Joseph. The backup in Toronto. He starts for a bunch of these teams right?

If you want to you are more than welcome to. I am not sure I understand what your point is. Gary Harris already starts every game for a team that almost made the playoffs. Elfrid starts the majority of his games, but plays at point guard where the talent in the playoffs is a lot higher than it is at shooting guard (curry, harden, thomas, it, wall, lowry, irving, conley, westbrook). Exum wouldn't start on a single team because he is not even a rotation player for the Jazz most of the time and has been DNP in 3 playoff games so far. Lavine would start for a lot of teams as he is a great offensive player. Joseph is a nice player, but has same issue for starting playing the point guard rich position. So what was the point of all of this?

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 04:06:42 PM »

Offline positivitize

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 Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Can't have an intelligent discussion with the enlightened totally objective Smart raters. They see things as they are and don't know how to convey their brilliant insight/access to the platonic truth of Marcus Smart to the rest of us.
My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Kemba, Grant Williams, Sleepy Williams, Edwards!

Anti:
Kanter, Semi, Theis, Poierier

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 04:10:59 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Ok first off guys. If you want to be constructive and have a good debate, why not actually add some sort of real argument to your point. I can make a pretty compelling case that Smart was an upgrade over Smith for example this season.

Smith, while bothered by injuries, averaged 8.5 points and shot 34% from the floor overall. The scoring average was his lowest in 11 years and the shooting percentage was the lowest of his career. He was little help on the boards averaging 2.8 and not much of a playmaker on offense averaging 1.5 assists.

You then take into the account that the Cavaliers how an absolutely amazing offense but where one of the worst defending teams in the league. Both of you somehow think they would want to add another shooter instead of working to improve their defensive and offsetting Smith's lousy offense and defense?

I mean honestly, if you actually took the time to think about this it is incredibly hard to argue that the Cavs would not have been a better team starting Smart over Smith in the games he started this year. Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Also before you go over the top and say every team wants shooters, realize there are elite defensive players that are bad shooters that are starting on playoff teams. Do you guys watch other teams at all? Roberson is a prime example of this starting for the Thunder. He shot 24% from 3 this year and was such a poor foul shooter he was intentionally fouled 5-6 times yesterday going 1-13 from the line or something close to that. He makes Smart look like Steph Curry. Yet there he is starting for the Thunder and making a positive impact with his defense. SMH at ignorance.

Dude, Smith has been injured this season. You really think Lebron would put his boy on the bench? Smith was pretty big for them for a few games last year in the playoffs actually. And you like Roberson? Have you not noticed how hard it's been for the Thunder to score? I mean that team is anemic talent wise. Westbrook has been carrying them. Using Roberson as an example doesn't help your arguement imo. Thunder are about to lose in 5 games lol. What a great player Roberson is. Same with your boy Oladipo.

Lol @ ignorance. Pretty sad you went there because we didn't agree with you. You sound like Smart from last night after he had the ball taking from him. He cried about it like a big baby losing candy and it resulted in a technical.

Also I've already explained my stance on Smart on numerous occasions. How many Smart threads are there? I don't even know why you made one when there are already two.

If you look at my history, I'm actually pretty good with predictions/assumptions. I wasn't going nuts when the Celtics were down 0-2? Like your response to me just made you look like a baby. Seriously, who responds like that?


Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 04:19:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Ok first off guys. If you want to be constructive and have a good debate, why not actually add some sort of real argument to your point. I can make a pretty compelling case that Smart was an upgrade over Smith for example this season.

Smith, while bothered by injuries, averaged 8.5 points and shot 34% from the floor overall. The scoring average was his lowest in 11 years and the shooting percentage was the lowest of his career. He was little help on the boards averaging 2.8 and not much of a playmaker on offense averaging 1.5 assists.

You then take into the account that the Cavaliers how an absolutely amazing offense but where one of the worst defending teams in the league. Both of you somehow think they would want to add another shooter instead of working to improve their defensive and offsetting Smith's lousy offense and defense?

I mean honestly, if you actually took the time to think about this it is incredibly hard to argue that the Cavs would not have been a better team starting Smart over Smith in the games he started this year. Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Also before you go over the top and say every team wants shooters, realize there are elite defensive players that are bad shooters that are starting on playoff teams. Do you guys watch other teams at all? Roberson is a prime example of this starting for the Thunder. He shot 24% from 3 this year and was such a poor foul shooter he was intentionally fouled 5-6 times yesterday going 1-13 from the line or something close to that. He makes Smart look like Steph Curry. Yet there he is starting for the Thunder and making a positive impact with his defense. SMH at ignorance.

Dude, Smith has been injured this season. You really think Lebron would put his boy on the bench? Smith was pretty big for them for a few games last year in the playoffs actually. And you like Roberson? Have you not noticed how hard it's been for the Thunder to score? I mean that team is anemic talent wise. Westbrook has been carrying them. Using Roberson as an example doesn't help your arguement imo. Thunder are about to lose in 5 games lol. What a great player Roberson is. Same with your boy Oladipo.

Lol @ ignorance. Pretty sad you went there because we didn't agree with you. You sound like Smart from last night after he had the ball taking from him. He cried about it like a big baby losing candy and it resulted in a technical.

I named/discussed a long list of players including Snell, Jr Smith, Ingles, Roberson, Danny Green, CJ Miles, 40 year old Vince Carter and Tim Hardaway Jr that are all starting at the same position/similar role to Smart. While these players all have their strengths. They also have their weaknesses. And if you look at the stats pretty close it is hard to argue that Smart wouldn't start all over them. Blindly coming in and not responding to that point at all with "He's simply not a starting calibar player" while offering no explanation of how those players are better than smart is ignorant/obnoxious. It is either ignorant of the role and skillset of those other players to think they are all superior to Smart, or it just obnoxiously hating for the sake of it. Either way it is not a strong post. 

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 04:25:02 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Ok first off guys. If you want to be constructive and have a good debate, why not actually add some sort of real argument to your point. I can make a pretty compelling case that Smart was an upgrade over Smith for example this season.

Smith, while bothered by injuries, averaged 8.5 points and shot 34% from the floor overall. The scoring average was his lowest in 11 years and the shooting percentage was the lowest of his career. He was little help on the boards averaging 2.8 and not much of a playmaker on offense averaging 1.5 assists.

You then take into the account that the Cavaliers how an absolutely amazing offense but where one of the worst defending teams in the league. Both of you somehow think they would want to add another shooter instead of working to improve their defensive and offsetting Smith's lousy offense and defense?

I mean honestly, if you actually took the time to think about this it is incredibly hard to argue that the Cavs would not have been a better team starting Smart over Smith in the games he started this year. Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Also before you go over the top and say every team wants shooters, realize there are elite defensive players that are bad shooters that are starting on playoff teams. Do you guys watch other teams at all? Roberson is a prime example of this starting for the Thunder. He shot 24% from 3 this year and was such a poor foul shooter he was intentionally fouled 5-6 times yesterday going 1-13 from the line or something close to that. He makes Smart look like Steph Curry. Yet there he is starting for the Thunder and making a positive impact with his defense. SMH at ignorance.

Dude, Smith has been injured this season. You really think Lebron would put his boy on the bench? Smith was pretty big for them for a few games last year in the playoffs actually. And you like Roberson? Have you not noticed how hard it's been for the Thunder to score? I mean that team is anemic talent wise. Westbrook has been carrying them. Using Roberson as an example doesn't help your arguement imo. Thunder are about to lose in 5 games lol. What a great player Roberson is. Same with your boy Oladipo.

Lol @ ignorance. Pretty sad you went there because we didn't agree with you. You sound like Smart from last night after he had the ball taking from him. He cried about it like a big baby losing candy and it resulted in a technical.

I named/discussed a long list of players including Snell, Jr Smith, Ingles, Roberson, Danny Green, CJ Miles, 40 year old Vince Carter and Tim Hardaway Jr that are all starting at the same position/similar role to Smart. While these players all have their strengths. They also have their weaknesses. And if you look at the stats pretty close it is hard to argue that Smart wouldn't start all over them. Blindly coming in and not responding to that point at all with "He's simply not a starting calibar player" while offering no explanation of how those players are better than smart is ignorant/obnoxious. It is either ignorant of the role and skillset of those other players to think they are all superior to Smart, or it just obnoxiously hating for the sake of it. Either way it is not a strong post.

I only mentioned the Cavs in my response and you acted like a baby. I don't know where all those other names came into play. I get it, you're feeling insecure about your post and need some reassurance. BUT I HAVE ALREADY SAID EVERYTHING I NEED TO SAY ABOUT SMART. I know you have read them, you even once agreed with me earlier this year in regards to Smart. So sorry for not posting a detailed retort.

Smart is better than Roberson. I disagree on Green because he is a good defender imo and can shoot the 3. Memphis yes, because he would be replacing an injured Tony Allen. Not because Carter is 40. But because their starter is injured. I like Smart over Hardaway as well.




Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2017, 04:31:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Ok first off guys. If you want to be constructive and have a good debate, why not actually add some sort of real argument to your point. I can make a pretty compelling case that Smart was an upgrade over Smith for example this season.

Smith, while bothered by injuries, averaged 8.5 points and shot 34% from the floor overall. The scoring average was his lowest in 11 years and the shooting percentage was the lowest of his career. He was little help on the boards averaging 2.8 and not much of a playmaker on offense averaging 1.5 assists.

You then take into the account that the Cavaliers how an absolutely amazing offense but where one of the worst defending teams in the league. Both of you somehow think they would want to add another shooter instead of working to improve their defensive and offsetting Smith's lousy offense and defense?

I mean honestly, if you actually took the time to think about this it is incredibly hard to argue that the Cavs would not have been a better team starting Smart over Smith in the games he started this year. Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Also before you go over the top and say every team wants shooters, realize there are elite defensive players that are bad shooters that are starting on playoff teams. Do you guys watch other teams at all? Roberson is a prime example of this starting for the Thunder. He shot 24% from 3 this year and was such a poor foul shooter he was intentionally fouled 5-6 times yesterday going 1-13 from the line or something close to that. He makes Smart look like Steph Curry. Yet there he is starting for the Thunder and making a positive impact with his defense. SMH at ignorance.

Dude, Smith has been injured this season. You really think Lebron would put his boy on the bench? Smith was pretty big for them for a few games last year in the playoffs actually. And you like Roberson? Have you not noticed how hard it's been for the Thunder to score? I mean that team is anemic talent wise. Westbrook has been carrying them. Using Roberson as an example doesn't help your arguement imo. Thunder are about to lose in 5 games lol. What a great player Roberson is. Same with your boy Oladipo.

Lol @ ignorance. Pretty sad you went there because we didn't agree with you. You sound like Smart from last night after he had the ball taking from him. He cried about it like a big baby losing candy and it resulted in a technical.

I named/discussed a long list of players including Snell, Jr Smith, Ingles, Roberson, Danny Green, CJ Miles, 40 year old Vince Carter and Tim Hardaway Jr that are all starting at the same position/similar role to Smart. While these players all have their strengths. They also have their weaknesses. And if you look at the stats pretty close it is hard to argue that Smart wouldn't start all over them. Blindly coming in and not responding to that point at all with "He's simply not a starting calibar player" while offering no explanation of how those players are better than smart is ignorant/obnoxious. It is either ignorant of the role and skillset of those other players to think they are all superior to Smart, or it just obnoxiously hating for the sake of it. Either way it is not a strong post.

I only mentioned the Cavs in my response and you acted like a baby. I don't know where all those other names came into play. I get it, you're feeling insecure about your post and need some reassurance. BUT I HAVE ALREADY SAID EVERYTHING I NEED TO SAY ABOUT SMART. I know you have read them, you even once agreed with me earlier this year in regards to Smart. So sorry for not posting a detailed retort.

Smart is better than Roberson. I disagree on Green because he is a good defender imo and can shoot the 3. Memphis yes, because he would be replacing an injured Tony Allen. Not because Carter is 40. But because their starter is injured. I like Smart over Hardaway as well.

How about CJ Miles and Joe Ingles? Also, is he not better than a 34 year old Tony Allen regardless?

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2017, 05:01:46 PM »

Online BitterJim

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I was thinking about this based on the expectations thread, that is actually quite a lot. Some of these are debatable, but I do think most of them he would based on team need and who they currently start.

Cavs: Yes

Jr Smith at 32 is on the decline and defense has far and away been the biggest issue for the Cavs this season. They have plenty of offensive firepower with Lebron, Love and Irving and Smart would help cover for Irving's weakness on defense and allow Lebron to expend less effort on defense (this honestly seems like a no brainer)

Bucks : Yes

While Snell is a better shooter, I think that Smart's overall defensive game more than offsets that and think he would start. However, this is debatable.

Toronto: No.

He clearly would not start over Demar

Warriors: No
He clearly would not start over Klay

Blazers: No he clearly would not start over Mccollum

Memphis: Yes

He is clearly a better player than 40 year old Vince Carter or James Ennis. They would a much better team with Smart alongside Conley and Gasol in the starting lineup.

Utah: Yes

I think he is a much more complete player than Ingles and would slot along the offensive firepower of Hill and Hayward.

Spurs: Yes
Green has quietly not improved at all since his games in the finals years back and shooting 37 and 39% from the field the last two years is not enough to make up for the difference in defense and playmaking between the two.

Bulls: No (but maybe should)
It would probably actually make sense for them to not start Butler and Wade together given Wade's injuries and edge, but they would probably never do it over egos.

Wizards: No
He is not as good as Beal.

Atlanta: Maybe, probably not
Hardaway has certainly had a great second half of the season and Smart would probably fit worse alongside schroeder. That being said, I do think Smart is the better player and that would be a fearsome defense backcourt.

Celtics: No
Obviously

Pacers: Yes
He is a better player than CJ Miles and would help cover for the defensive weakness of Teague

Clippers:  Probably not
With Blake out they need the offensive firepower Reddick offers, but perhaps as next season the aging Reddick may slot in behind Smart and Crawford would further see his role reduced as he approaches 40 years old.

I know I am forgetting a few playoff teams but am running out of time and will come back and edit this.

So you make a case that Smart could start for at least 6 of the teams in the playoffs, including the defending champions, and maybe half of them. I think looking at it throw that lens maybe may make some appreciate Smart more.

I disagree about the Cavs.  If they wanted more defense and less offense at the SG position, they would be starting Shumpert over Smith.  Plus, I don't think they could justify bringing Smith off the bench after giving him that 4/57 deal.

I also disagree about the Bucks.  That team is strapped for shooting (less so since Middleton returned, but still in need), and having Snell spreading the floor is more valuable than Smart's added defense.

Agreed on Toronto, Golden State, and the Blazers.

Memphis he would definitely start right now.  He would give the team a similar dynamic to when Tony Allen is healthy.  If Allen were healthy right now, then it's debatable, but TA would likely start due to his experience, both with the team/lineup and in general.

Jazz I can't see him starting on, but I also can't see Ingles starting on that team so who knows.  I'm not sure whether Smart would replace Ingles, but given that they are already a great defensive team I think they'd prefer Ingles' shooting.

He probably wouldn't start for the Spurs given Green's 38% 3p shooting.  Green's struggling from the field this year, but he's still a very good 3 and D player and pretty much perfect for his role on that team. 

Smart would start for the Bulls at PG right now, no questions asked.  MCW, Grant, and Canaan are undoubtedly worse than him (Canaan is a better shooter, but Smart blows him away in every other part of the game).  With a healthy Rondo, though, Smart comes off the bench.

Agreed on the Wizards.

For the Hawks, I don't think he would start.  With an inside guy like Dwight you need to spread the floor, and a little added defense means less when there's someone there to clean up a perimeter defender's mistakes.  It's possible he starts while playing a guard-heavy team like Washington, though, since he's the way better defender.

Agreed on the Pacers.  Miles is the better shooter, but that team can already stretch the floor so having a great defender to cover for Teague would be a huge help, especially in a series against an elite PG like Irving.

Clippers he wouldn't start for.  that team needs outside shooting, not another great guard defender.  When Chris Paul was out he might have, though.

Teams you didn't mention (yet):

Rockets: no, Beverly is the much better shooter while also being a very good defender.  This is a spot where AB would definitely start, but not Smart.

OKC: Smart would start over Roberson in a series against a team without a star scoring SF like the Rockets.  Smart would be able to cover Harden when needed and would be able to cover Ariza when it wasn't needed.  And say what you will about Smart, but his offense isn't so terrible that teams play "Hack-A-Smart" (and if they did for some reason, he's god enough to actually hit his FTs)

So I figure he definitely starts on 4/16 playoff teams right now, and is a maybe on 2 others (but keep in mind that 2 of the teams he definitely starts on, Bulls and Memphis, are due to injuries).  Not bad for our current 6th man
I'm bitter.

Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 05:10:17 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Wow, talk about alternative universe. I'm not really sure he starts for ANY other playoff team.  He's simply not a starting caliber player.  And most of those teams would take a shooter over smart any way.

Agreed lol. No way would he start on the Cavs, that's for sure. Teams value shooting over defense. It's literally 4 on 5 when he's out there.

Ok first off guys. If you want to be constructive and have a good debate, why not actually add some sort of real argument to your point. I can make a pretty compelling case that Smart was an upgrade over Smith for example this season.

Smith, while bothered by injuries, averaged 8.5 points and shot 34% from the floor overall. The scoring average was his lowest in 11 years and the shooting percentage was the lowest of his career. He was little help on the boards averaging 2.8 and not much of a playmaker on offense averaging 1.5 assists.

You then take into the account that the Cavaliers how an absolutely amazing offense but where one of the worst defending teams in the league. Both of you somehow think they would want to add another shooter instead of working to improve their defensive and offsetting Smith's lousy offense and defense?

I mean honestly, if you actually took the time to think about this it is incredibly hard to argue that the Cavs would not have been a better team starting Smart over Smith in the games he started this year. Your posts also are prime example of negativity without substance and I would truly love it if could try to refute the points i have made here with intelligent discourse.

Also before you go over the top and say every team wants shooters, realize there are elite defensive players that are bad shooters that are starting on playoff teams. Do you guys watch other teams at all? Roberson is a prime example of this starting for the Thunder. He shot 24% from 3 this year and was such a poor foul shooter he was intentionally fouled 5-6 times yesterday going 1-13 from the line or something close to that. He makes Smart look like Steph Curry. Yet there he is starting for the Thunder and making a positive impact with his defense. SMH at ignorance.

Dude, Smith has been injured this season. You really think Lebron would put his boy on the bench? Smith was pretty big for them for a few games last year in the playoffs actually. And you like Roberson? Have you not noticed how hard it's been for the Thunder to score? I mean that team is anemic talent wise. Westbrook has been carrying them. Using Roberson as an example doesn't help your arguement imo. Thunder are about to lose in 5 games lol. What a great player Roberson is. Same with your boy Oladipo.

Lol @ ignorance. Pretty sad you went there because we didn't agree with you. You sound like Smart from last night after he had the ball taking from him. He cried about it like a big baby losing candy and it resulted in a technical.

I named/discussed a long list of players including Snell, Jr Smith, Ingles, Roberson, Danny Green, CJ Miles, 40 year old Vince Carter and Tim Hardaway Jr that are all starting at the same position/similar role to Smart. While these players all have their strengths. They also have their weaknesses. And if you look at the stats pretty close it is hard to argue that Smart wouldn't start all over them. Blindly coming in and not responding to that point at all with "He's simply not a starting calibar player" while offering no explanation of how those players are better than smart is ignorant/obnoxious. It is either ignorant of the role and skillset of those other players to think they are all superior to Smart, or it just obnoxiously hating for the sake of it. Either way it is not a strong post.

I only mentioned the Cavs in my response and you acted like a baby. I don't know where all those other names came into play. I get it, you're feeling insecure about your post and need some reassurance. BUT I HAVE ALREADY SAID EVERYTHING I NEED TO SAY ABOUT SMART. I know you have read them, you even once agreed with me earlier this year in regards to Smart. So sorry for not posting a detailed retort.

Smart is better than Roberson. I disagree on Green because he is a good defender imo and can shoot the 3. Memphis yes, because he would be replacing an injured Tony Allen. Not because Carter is 40. But because their starter is injured. I like Smart over Hardaway as well.

How about CJ Miles and Joe Ingles? Also, is he not better than a 34 year old Tony Allen regardless?

Joe Ingles was balling last night haha. I mean this is hard for me to say. Ingles can shoot, and he's not terrible at D. He also plays SF right? I thought Hayward played SG? Ingles is also older than Smart. I think Smart will be a better player for sure, not sure he is there yet since Ingles has been good in the playoffs.

I haven't watched TA play this year tbh. I'll give you Smart on that one.

CJ Miles is worse than Smart. I agree.


Re: How many playoffs teams would Smart start for?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 05:11:35 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I was thinking about this based on the expectations thread, that is actually quite a lot. Some of these are debatable, but I do think most of them he would based on team need and who they currently start.

Cavs: Yes

Jr Smith at 32 is on the decline and defense has far and away been the biggest issue for the Cavs this season. They have plenty of offensive firepower with Lebron, Love and Irving and Smart would help cover for Irving's weakness on defense and allow Lebron to expend less effort on defense (this honestly seems like a no brainer)

Bucks : Yes

While Snell is a better shooter, I think that Smart's overall defensive game more than offsets that and think he would start. However, this is debatable.

Toronto: No.

He clearly would not start over Demar

Warriors: No
He clearly would not start over Klay

Blazers: No he clearly would not start over Mccollum

Memphis: Yes

He is clearly a better player than 40 year old Vince Carter or James Ennis. They would a much better team with Smart alongside Conley and Gasol in the starting lineup.

Utah: Yes

I think he is a much more complete player than Ingles and would slot along the offensive firepower of Hill and Hayward.

Spurs: Yes
Green has quietly not improved at all since his games in the finals years back and shooting 37 and 39% from the field the last two years is not enough to make up for the difference in defense and playmaking between the two.

Bulls: No (but maybe should)
It would probably actually make sense for them to not start Butler and Wade together given Wade's injuries and edge, but they would probably never do it over egos.

Wizards: No
He is not as good as Beal.

Atlanta: Maybe, probably not
Hardaway has certainly had a great second half of the season and Smart would probably fit worse alongside schroeder. That being said, I do think Smart is the better player and that would be a fearsome defense backcourt.

Celtics: No
Obviously

Pacers: Yes
He is a better player than CJ Miles and would help cover for the defensive weakness of Teague

Clippers:  Probably not
With Blake out they need the offensive firepower Reddick offers, but perhaps as next season the aging Reddick may slot in behind Smart and Crawford would further see his role reduced as he approaches 40 years old.

I know I am forgetting a few playoff teams but am running out of time and will come back and edit this.

So you make a case that Smart could start for at least 6 of the teams in the playoffs, including the defending champions, and maybe half of them. I think looking at it throw that lens maybe may make some appreciate Smart more.

I disagree about the Cavs.  If they wanted more defense and less offense at the SG position, they would be starting Shumpert over Smith.  Plus, I don't think they could justify bringing Smith off the bench after giving him that 4/57 deal.

I also disagree about the Bucks.  That team is strapped for shooting (less so since Middleton returned, but still in need), and having Snell spreading the floor is more valuable than Smart's added defense.

Agreed on Toronto, Golden State, and the Blazers.

Memphis he would definitely start right now.  He would give the team a similar dynamic to when Tony Allen is healthy.  If Allen were healthy right now, then it's debatable, but TA would likely start due to his experience, both with the team/lineup and in general.

Jazz I can't see him starting on, but I also can't see Ingles starting on that team so who knows.  I'm not sure whether Smart would replace Ingles, but given that they are already a great defensive team I think they'd prefer Ingles' shooting.

He probably wouldn't start for the Spurs given Green's 38% 3p shooting.  Green's struggling from the field this year, but he's still a very good 3 and D player and pretty much perfect for his role on that team. 

Smart would start for the Bulls at PG right now, no questions asked.  MCW, Grant, and Canaan are undoubtedly worse than him (Canaan is a better shooter, but Smart blows him away in every other part of the game).  With a healthy Rondo, though, Smart comes off the bench.

Agreed on the Wizards.

For the Hawks, I don't think he would start.  With an inside guy like Dwight you need to spread the floor, and a little added defense means less when there's someone there to clean up a perimeter defender's mistakes.  It's possible he starts while playing a guard-heavy team like Washington, though, since he's the way better defender.

Agreed on the Pacers.  Miles is the better shooter, but that team can already stretch the floor so having a great defender to cover for Teague would be a huge help, especially in a series against an elite PG like Irving.

Clippers he wouldn't start for.  that team needs outside shooting, not another great guard defender.  When Chris Paul was out he might have, though.

Teams you didn't mention (yet):

Rockets: no, Beverly is the much better shooter while also being a very good defender.  This is a spot where AB would definitely start, but not Smart.

OKC: Smart would start over Roberson in a series against a team without a star scoring SF like the Rockets.  Smart would be able to cover Harden when needed and would be able to cover Ariza when it wasn't needed.  And say what you will about Smart, but his offense isn't so terrible that teams play "Hack-A-Smart" (and if they did for some reason, he's god enough to actually hit his FTs)

So I figure he definitely starts on 4/16 playoff teams right now, and is a maybe on 2 others (but keep in mind that 2 of the teams he definitely starts on, Bulls and Memphis, are due to injuries).  Not bad for our current 6th man

Very nicely put. TP. I think you're spot on.