Poll

Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations?

He is totally exceeding expectations.
11 (11.1%)
He is meeting expectations.
42 (42.4%)
He is not meeting expectations but he's within range.
38 (38.4%)
He is nowhere near meeting expectations.
8 (8.1%)

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Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #135 on: April 24, 2017, 09:14:10 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out.

This thread is about expectations. So looking back at Smart's draft profile, strengths/weaknesses, of your favorite draft site you will find your answer. Coming out of college Smart was labeled a poor shooter but good finisher around the rim that got to the free throw line a lot. An average playmaker with relatively low bball iq, that didn't have as much pick and roll experience as one would like but good at posting up and did so at a rate higher than most small forwards. Defensively he had good anticipation skills for streals and blocks and his strength allowed him to guard multiple positions. His intangibles rated highly, i.e. hustle and timely plays though tends to flop and get over emotional with opposing players.

This sounds like almost the same player he is today. Shooting still bad, finishing at rim and free throw attempts worse as he isn't able to bully his way to the rim like he did in college. I'd argue his playmaking skills, passing and ball handling have improved to the point where he is servicable running the point on pick and roll and getting the ball to others in scoring position. His defense and intangibles are probably better than advertised. He makes some ridiculus steals and hustle plays. He still flops but seems to be starting to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs. Still is overly emotional and has a tendency to get in bouts of machismo with opposing players, but not usually to the detriment of the team. Actually, this might bring more fire to the team.

So has he met expectations?

 I'd say mostly. His strengths are greater than advertised (defense,intangibles)his weakness are a mixed bag. Scoring is still bad, probably worse, but his passing is better and his flops and outburst are positives not negatives. People probably want to see more growth from a high lottery pick but sometimes you get exactly what you bought. And if you highly value offense, like the OP, well... then you're probably disappointed but given his skill set coming out of college, shouldn't have had high expectations to begin with.

You are right ,and I think Smart haters also understand this.


At this moment Smart is fine, he is playing 30 minutes on a good team

But I think what Smart pessimists are trying to convey is that he cannot be a starter .......he is not that type of player

Of course we all love high octane energy guys who do the dirty work.

We all know he can do that, but at his current style , no way he is a starter where as guys like Randle, Gordon, Payton, even though they might to be as important as Smart is to a contender , they can eventually be no doubt starters because they can score or they can be efficient offensive players.

No doubt Smart is a fantastic player to have on the team.....but at this moment that is what he is,

If he starts, the team you have will most likely suffer or is suffering to the point where he needs to be a starter.

On the flip side, I think he can start on this Celtics team as well along side IT. Although if a better one dimensional shooter comes along, he can easily be thrown back  to the bench.

Its all on Smart to improve his shooting and become better at driving to the rim.

He doesnt do both well at all right now.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #136 on: April 24, 2017, 09:15:19 PM »

Offline Denis998

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Aside from not being able to shoot, he has improved every other aspect to his game.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #137 on: April 24, 2017, 09:28:20 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Without various cop out answers like "The expectations have always been unfair" or something like that where do you rank Marcus Smart?

To me he's a sixth man via his tough play and defense. Yes he tries very hard all the time, but that's not good enough. He wasn't drafted 6th to be a 6th man. He as supposed to be beating out Avery Bradley by now and it's not even close.

He's a great defender and that's all he is. You don't try to draft Bruce Bowen or something with the 6th pick.

I think the expectations were...by the third year....a solid starter in this league. A good offensive player. A good passer/playmaker.

He's nothing like that. He's just a  try hard intense player who has a knack for showing up big in tough spots. Not good enough.

I respect him but I think he's a pick that is a missed opportunity.

Smart is better than Bradley.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #138 on: April 25, 2017, 05:54:26 AM »

Offline chambers

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Smart didn't win back to back State Championships in High School by being a dominant point guard, scorer. He won by hustle, defense, rebounds, shutting down opponents stars, taking charges, and changing the complexity of the game without scoring.

He was hands down the MVP of those championship games and this is what you're seeing now. He won't unleash until the 4th quarter when he his foul count is low and he can go all out. He'll get in your head, out hustle anyone on either team, he's a man amongst men. Just watch as this thing goes on, he's undeniable.

There are different ways to be a star, which at times goes unrealized, unnoticed or just undervalued around these parts. The kind you describe in describing Marcus is maybe the rarest. Players like him are in short supply and difficult to acquire. Every truly great team has had at least one and needs at least one to be truly great.

The 4th quarter angle is key. Looking at it from the perspective of a teammate, is there anyone else you want out there fighting by your side in the waning minutes of a close game for all the little and big basketball things he is capable of doing than Marcus?

It's not a coincidence that the Celtics' steadily improving fortunes have coincided with his arrival.

So he's Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen, or Robert Horry? James Posey, lol. Delladova? These players aren't as hard to find as you're making them out to be.

No, those guys aren't easy to find.  They are certainly not as hard to find as perennial all-stars or MVPs, but the Celtics never replaced Tony Allen after they lost him and they paid for it.

I am not sure what Marcus' ceiling is.  He is a very unique player, to say the least.  There haven't been many PGs in the NBA with his size and strength who can legitimately defend 4s and 5s in the post.  He is a 23-year old Swiss Army Knife with a linebacker body logging 30+ minutes for a top-7 NBA team.  There is no doubt in my mind that every team in the league wants him on the roster.  The guy plays his a$$ off every game, no matter what the score.

Salute. TP
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #139 on: April 25, 2017, 08:00:10 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Without various cop out answers like "The expectations have always been unfair" or something like that where do you rank Marcus Smart?

To me he's a sixth man via his tough play and defense. Yes he tries very hard all the time, but that's not good enough. He wasn't drafted 6th to be a 6th man. He as supposed to be beating out Avery Bradley by now and it's not even close.

He's a great defender and that's all he is. You don't try to draft Bruce Bowen or something with the 6th pick.

I think the expectations were...by the third year....a solid starter in this league. A good offensive player. A good passer/playmaker.

He's nothing like that. He's just a  try hard intense player who has a knack for showing up big in tough spots. Not good enough.

I respect him but I think he's a pick that is a missed opportunity.

Smart is better than Bradley.
Not at basketball though

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #140 on: April 25, 2017, 01:50:01 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Looks like Smart is still working on his game even though all his teammates have left. We could expect a big game for him Wed. Link is below

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/856926935557046272

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #141 on: April 25, 2017, 01:57:42 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out.

This thread is about expectations. So looking back at Smart's draft profile, strengths/weaknesses, of your favorite draft site you will find your answer. Coming out of college Smart was labeled a poor shooter but good finisher around the rim that got to the free throw line a lot. An average playmaker with relatively low bball iq, that didn't have as much pick and roll experience as one would like but good at posting up and did so at a rate higher than most small forwards. Defensively he had good anticipation skills for streals and blocks and his strength allowed him to guard multiple positions. His intangibles rated highly, i.e. hustle and timely plays though tends to flop and get over emotional with opposing players.

This sounds like almost the same player he is today. Shooting still bad, finishing at rim and free throw attempts worse as he isn't able to bully his way to the rim like he did in college. I'd argue his playmaking skills, passing and ball handling have improved to the point where he is servicable running the point on pick and roll and getting the ball to others in scoring position. His defense and intangibles are probably better than advertised. He makes some ridiculus steals and hustle plays. He still flops but seems to be starting to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs. Still is overly emotional and has a tendency to get in bouts of machismo with opposing players, but not usually to the detriment of the team. Actually, this might bring more fire to the team.

So has he met expectations?

 I'd say mostly. His strengths are greater than advertised (defense,intangibles)his weakness are a mixed bag. Scoring is still bad, probably worse, but his passing is better and his flops and outburst are positives not negatives. People probably want to see more growth from a high lottery pick but sometimes you get exactly what you bought. And if you highly value offense, like the OP, well... then you're probably disappointed but given his skill set coming out of college, shouldn't have had high expectations to begin with.

You are right ,and I think Smart haters also understand this.


At this moment Smart is fine, he is playing 30 minutes on a good team

But I think what Smart pessimists are trying to convey is that he cannot be a starter .......he is not that type of player

Of course we all love high octane energy guys who do the dirty work.

We all know he can do that, but at his current style , no way he is a starter where as guys like Randle, Gordon, Payton, even though they might to be as important as Smart is to a contender , they can eventually be no doubt starters because they can score or they can be efficient offensive players.

No doubt Smart is a fantastic player to have on the team.....but at this moment that is what he is,

If he starts, the team you have will most likely suffer or is suffering to the point where he needs to be a starter.

On the flip side, I think he can start on this Celtics team as well along side IT. Although if a better one dimensional shooter comes along, he can easily be thrown back  to the bench.

Its all on Smart to improve his shooting and become better at driving to the rim.

He doesnt do both well at all right now.

Do you have a link? Cause I have one from Draft Express. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2xqmw8NHco

It literally says he can attack the rim, Size and Strength, Passing Instincts, Defense, and Competitiveness. Those are his strengths. It also mentions he's pretty decent on isolations.

He was a tier 2 prospect on Chad Ford's board, which is based on Front Office Exec's assumptions on a player. I really don't appreciate people rewriting history on Smart's expectation. I can even post old threads to show what people truly thought of Marcus Smart. I think it's really unfair that people just make stuff up to suit their argument.

I love Smart. We really really need him for the future. I hope he improves because it will hurt us if he doesn't. He has been a disappointment thus far in terms on progress for me. But what do I know. I mean I created a thread saying we would beat the Bulls in 7 games after we were down 0-2. If you guys think that I'm bias or emotional, then you just don't read what I usually say.




Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #142 on: April 25, 2017, 02:20:06 PM »

Offline showtime

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  He's met mine, because mine weren't very high for him. He's a 6th, 7th, or 8 guy on a good team who tries hard, but can't shoot. His man is always helping out on someone else, making it harder for them to score. 

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #143 on: April 25, 2017, 02:29:13 PM »

Offline mahcussmaht

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Mahcus has been amazing.  He's far exceeded any reasonable expectations I had of him.  Most young players never pan out.  With the #6 pick in a draft like 2014, I expected to get a player who would shoot below 30% and end up playing in Mongolia in a few years, but instead we got an above average defensive role player off the bench who exceeds 30% from the field and 20% from three.  He's also an NBA-level passer which is more than can be said about some of the guys taken after him like Noah Vonleh and James Young.  Mahcus makes winning plays.  He's aggressive.  I give him an A++ for effort.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #144 on: April 25, 2017, 02:57:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out.

This thread is about expectations. So looking back at Smart's draft profile, strengths/weaknesses, of your favorite draft site you will find your answer. Coming out of college Smart was labeled a poor shooter but good finisher around the rim that got to the free throw line a lot. An average playmaker with relatively low bball iq, that didn't have as much pick and roll experience as one would like but good at posting up and did so at a rate higher than most small forwards. Defensively he had good anticipation skills for streals and blocks and his strength allowed him to guard multiple positions. His intangibles rated highly, i.e. hustle and timely plays though tends to flop and get over emotional with opposing players.

This sounds like almost the same player he is today. Shooting still bad, finishing at rim and free throw attempts worse as he isn't able to bully his way to the rim like he did in college. I'd argue his playmaking skills, passing and ball handling have improved to the point where he is servicable running the point on pick and roll and getting the ball to others in scoring position. His defense and intangibles are probably better than advertised. He makes some ridiculus steals and hustle plays. He still flops but seems to be starting to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs. Still is overly emotional and has a tendency to get in bouts of machismo with opposing players, but not usually to the detriment of the team. Actually, this might bring more fire to the team.

So has he met expectations?

 I'd say mostly. His strengths are greater than advertised (defense,intangibles)his weakness are a mixed bag. Scoring is still bad, probably worse, but his passing is better and his flops and outburst are positives not negatives. People probably want to see more growth from a high lottery pick but sometimes you get exactly what you bought. And if you highly value offense, like the OP, well... then you're probably disappointed but given his skill set coming out of college, shouldn't have had high expectations to begin with.

You are right ,and I think Smart haters also understand this.


At this moment Smart is fine, he is playing 30 minutes on a good team

But I think what Smart pessimists are trying to convey is that he cannot be a starter .......he is not that type of player

Of course we all love high octane energy guys who do the dirty work.

We all know he can do that, but at his current style , no way he is a starter where as guys like Randle, Gordon, Payton, even though they might to be as important as Smart is to a contender , they can eventually be no doubt starters because they can score or they can be efficient offensive players.

No doubt Smart is a fantastic player to have on the team.....but at this moment that is what he is,

If he starts, the team you have will most likely suffer or is suffering to the point where he needs to be a starter.

On the flip side, I think he can start on this Celtics team as well along side IT. Although if a better one dimensional shooter comes along, he can easily be thrown back  to the bench.

Its all on Smart to improve his shooting and become better at driving to the rim.

He doesnt do both well at all right now.
Pretty hard to say Randle, Payton and Gordon are starters and Smart isn't when Randle, Gordon, and Payton start on horrible teams and wouldn't start on this team either.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #145 on: April 25, 2017, 03:03:38 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out.

This thread is about expectations. So looking back at Smart's draft profile, strengths/weaknesses, of your favorite draft site you will find your answer. Coming out of college Smart was labeled a poor shooter but good finisher around the rim that got to the free throw line a lot. An average playmaker with relatively low bball iq, that didn't have as much pick and roll experience as one would like but good at posting up and did so at a rate higher than most small forwards. Defensively he had good anticipation skills for streals and blocks and his strength allowed him to guard multiple positions. His intangibles rated highly, i.e. hustle and timely plays though tends to flop and get over emotional with opposing players.

This sounds like almost the same player he is today. Shooting still bad, finishing at rim and free throw attempts worse as he isn't able to bully his way to the rim like he did in college. I'd argue his playmaking skills, passing and ball handling have improved to the point where he is servicable running the point on pick and roll and getting the ball to others in scoring position. His defense and intangibles are probably better than advertised. He makes some ridiculus steals and hustle plays. He still flops but seems to be starting to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs. Still is overly emotional and has a tendency to get in bouts of machismo with opposing players, but not usually to the detriment of the team. Actually, this might bring more fire to the team.

So has he met expectations?

 I'd say mostly. His strengths are greater than advertised (defense,intangibles)his weakness are a mixed bag. Scoring is still bad, probably worse, but his passing is better and his flops and outburst are positives not negatives. People probably want to see more growth from a high lottery pick but sometimes you get exactly what you bought. And if you highly value offense, like the OP, well... then you're probably disappointed but given his skill set coming out of college, shouldn't have had high expectations to begin with.

You are right ,and I think Smart haters also understand this.


At this moment Smart is fine, he is playing 30 minutes on a good team

But I think what Smart pessimists are trying to convey is that he cannot be a starter .......he is not that type of player

Of course we all love high octane energy guys who do the dirty work.

We all know he can do that, but at his current style , no way he is a starter where as guys like Randle, Gordon, Payton, even though they might to be as important as Smart is to a contender , they can eventually be no doubt starters because they can score or they can be efficient offensive players.

No doubt Smart is a fantastic player to have on the team.....but at this moment that is what he is,

If he starts, the team you have will most likely suffer or is suffering to the point where he needs to be a starter.

On the flip side, I think he can start on this Celtics team as well along side IT. Although if a better one dimensional shooter comes along, he can easily be thrown back  to the bench.

Its all on Smart to improve his shooting and become better at driving to the rim.

He doesnt do both well at all right now.
Pretty hard to say Randle, Payton and Gordon are starters and Smart isn't when Randle, Gordon, and Payton start on horrible teams and wouldn't start on this team either.

I didn't even categorize them as current starters, even though they are starting.

I think they are potential starters because they have upside in the skills department.

If Smart somehow develops a great drive and finish game, I think he can also become a starter.

That is why I lost Elfrid as one potentially because besides his amazing passing game , he can drive to the rim and finish, if when his shot is way below average.

Marcus's problem is his inability to do things that most point guards can do. Drive to the rim and get it done

Marcus not only has trouble when he gets there , but he barely creates opportunities to do that.

The improvements Marcus has made is being able to run P&R , and also his aility to now slow the game down and make good decisions in half court. Other than that he is still a disaster offensively.



Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #146 on: April 25, 2017, 03:23:53 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out.

This thread is about expectations. So looking back at Smart's draft profile, strengths/weaknesses, of your favorite draft site you will find your answer. Coming out of college Smart was labeled a poor shooter but good finisher around the rim that got to the free throw line a lot. An average playmaker with relatively low bball iq, that didn't have as much pick and roll experience as one would like but good at posting up and did so at a rate higher than most small forwards. Defensively he had good anticipation skills for streals and blocks and his strength allowed him to guard multiple positions. His intangibles rated highly, i.e. hustle and timely plays though tends to flop and get over emotional with opposing players.

This sounds like almost the same player he is today. Shooting still bad, finishing at rim and free throw attempts worse as he isn't able to bully his way to the rim like he did in college. I'd argue his playmaking skills, passing and ball handling have improved to the point where he is servicable running the point on pick and roll and getting the ball to others in scoring position. His defense and intangibles are probably better than advertised. He makes some ridiculus steals and hustle plays. He still flops but seems to be starting to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs. Still is overly emotional and has a tendency to get in bouts of machismo with opposing players, but not usually to the detriment of the team. Actually, this might bring more fire to the team.

So has he met expectations?

 I'd say mostly. His strengths are greater than advertised (defense,intangibles)his weakness are a mixed bag. Scoring is still bad, probably worse, but his passing is better and his flops and outburst are positives not negatives. People probably want to see more growth from a high lottery pick but sometimes you get exactly what you bought. And if you highly value offense, like the OP, well... then you're probably disappointed but given his skill set coming out of college, shouldn't have had high expectations to begin with.

You are right ,and I think Smart haters also understand this.


At this moment Smart is fine, he is playing 30 minutes on a good team

But I think what Smart pessimists are trying to convey is that he cannot be a starter .......he is not that type of player

Of course we all love high octane energy guys who do the dirty work.

We all know he can do that, but at his current style , no way he is a starter where as guys like Randle, Gordon, Payton, even though they might to be as important as Smart is to a contender , they can eventually be no doubt starters because they can score or they can be efficient offensive players.

No doubt Smart is a fantastic player to have on the team.....but at this moment that is what he is,

If he starts, the team you have will most likely suffer or is suffering to the point where he needs to be a starter.

On the flip side, I think he can start on this Celtics team as well along side IT. Although if a better one dimensional shooter comes along, he can easily be thrown back  to the bench.

Its all on Smart to improve his shooting and become better at driving to the rim.

He doesnt do both well at all right now.
Pretty hard to say Randle, Payton and Gordon are starters and Smart isn't when Randle, Gordon, and Payton start on horrible teams and wouldn't start on this team either.

I didn't even categorize them as current starters, even though they are starting.

I think they are potential starters because they have upside in the skills department.

If Smart somehow develops a great drive and finish game, I think he can also become a starter.

That is why I lost Elfrid as one potentially because besides his amazing passing game , he can drive to the rim and finish, if when his shot is way below average.

Marcus's problem is his inability to do things that most point guards can do. Drive to the rim and get it done

Marcus not only has trouble when he gets there , but he barely creates opportunities to do that.

The improvements Marcus has made is being able to run P&R , and also his aility to now slow the game down and make good decisions in half court. Other than that he is still a disaster offensively.
Smart wont develop a drive and finish game.

However, if he learns to consistently knock down open catch and shoot threes, and wisens up his shot selection, I really dont see Payton or Randle ever being more valuable to a winning team than him.

Gordon's got skyhigh potential still, but I wouldnt exactly bet on him reaching it. 
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #147 on: April 25, 2017, 03:34:50 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Marcus was compared to Wade and Westbrook out of college. He has far from met those expectations, but looking back those were some really stupid expectations.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #148 on: April 25, 2017, 03:41:47 PM »

Offline mahcussmaht

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Marcus was compared to Wade and Westbrook out of college. He has far from met those expectations, but looking back those were some really stupid expectations.
I agree.  #6 picks are usually busts.  Guys like Jonny Flynn and Ekpe Udoh.  We are lucky we even got a player who is getting NBA playoff minutes.  Some of the guys taken in his draft like Noah Vonleh and Nik Stauskas are already on their 3rd teams.  Mahcus is even better than some of the bad players taken with picks higher than that.  Dante Exum was taken above him and that guy is a total bust.  Jaylen Brown went 3rd and that guy sucks.  Jahlil Okafor went 3rd a year ago and that guy is the worst player I've ever seen.   You never know what you're going to get with a draft pick.  We are gifted to have a guy who can shoot over 30% and make winning plays off the bench.  Most draft picks actively make teams worse.  You can make a reasonable argument that Mahcus makes us better and that's all you can really ever hope for.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #149 on: April 25, 2017, 04:13:41 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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No where near for me.

His elite defense was expected and he provides that but thought his offense would be a lot better by now. I'd still say in a typical redo of average drafts he would still go in a top 10s so he isn't a bust. A player with his physical tools and instinct should be better on offense with work.