Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.

[Dino Pitino]

I'm just not sure if I'm willing to wait that long to see some progression, and at this stage I'm not sure if I'd be willing to offer Smart a contract extension in such a money-heavy cap environment.  Im afraid I'd probably allow him to go the way of the Sully.

Not that your scouting report makes a difference to the team, thankfully, but...you might want to update it. When was the last time Marcus Smart forced a contested three early in the clock? "Often", lol wut? What games are you watching? DVR'd games from 2 years ago?

[crimson_stallion]

Marcus, unfortunately, is held to a different standard than Jaylen and most anyone else on this team for 1 reason - he was the "answer" to our entire tanking year.  We suffered through an entire year hoping to land Embiid or Wiggins (and to some degree Parker), and were left with Marcus Smart. 

I don't agree with that at all.

Smart has been held to a different standard than Jaylen Brown because:

1.  Smart was a seasoned college player who was supposed to be one of the most NBA ready players in the draft.  Brown was a 19 year old freshman who was recognised universally as a raw athletic wing, and was seen by most as a high risk, high upside pick.  I don't think anybody expected much at all from him this year, and I would say he's exceeded those expectations by actually contributing on a fairly consistent basis.

2. Smart is now in his third season.  He's played in 207 regular season games, 13 playoff games, and has never averaged less than 27 MPG for a season.  Point here is that he has has logged a LOT of playing time and gained a LOT more experience then most third year players do.  Yet to this point, he has still not shown any major signs of progression. 

When Smart entered the league, his biggest knocks were his ball handling ability, his shooting ability, his decision making, and his lack of great athleticism.  That hasn't changed, three years in.  He still struggles handling the ball, he is still one of the worst shooters in the league (statistically), he still makes poor decisions far too often, and I still see quicker guards blow by him pretty regularly. 

He's largely still 90% the same player he was on draft day - same strengths, same limitations. We all know he has the reputation of a tireless worker, so if the guy is putting in that much effort and his game isn't really progressing, then what does that say? To me this indicates clear warning signs that Marcus Smart just doesn't have that much raw talent, doesn't have a whole lot of upside, and pretty much is who he is. 

By comparison, Jaylen Brown has only played 78 games (at 17 MPG) as a rookie, and already we have seen him progress significantly on both ends of the court.  He finished his rookie season averaging Per 36 stats of 13.8 points, 5.9 rebounds and 1.7 assists per 36 minutes on 45% / 34% / 69% shooting - he wasn't playing at anything close to that level in the two months of the season, so the progression is there.  Progression aside, those numbers are very respectable for a rookie - especially a rookie who was drafted as a 19 year old freshman, with the reputation of being a raw athlete who can't shoot.

So this is why Smart held to a different standard to guys like Brown, Rozier, etc.  He's been given all the opportunity in the world to play major minutes on a competitive team - those minutes are so much more valuable (from a learning perspective) than the type of minutes a guy like Wiggins or Embiid is getting on their respective teams.  Yet despite that, he's just not showing that his making any real progression.

[Smokeeye123]

If Marcus was good offensively he'd be Lebron Jr. But since he's dreadful at creating his own shot/shooting we are left with intangibles and good defense.

Id probably give him a B- this series.

[Future Celtics Owner]

trade him for Jahlil Okafor.

[Dino Pitino]

How anyone can say that Smart is a poor ballhandler and bad decision-maker with the ball...I mean, you're kidding us, right? This is a joke, yes?

[mr. dee]

trade him for Jahlil Okafor.

I prefer Randle

[trickybilly]

How anyone can say that Smart is a poor ballhandler and bad decision-maker with the ball...I mean, you're kidding us, right? This is a joke, yes?

Best just to sit this conversation out entirely

[crimson_stallion]

I'm just not sure if I'm willing to wait that long to see some progression, and at this stage I'm not sure if I'd be willing to offer Smart a contract extension in such a money-heavy cap environment.  Im afraid I'd probably allow him to go the way of the Sully.

Not that your scouting report makes a difference to the team, thankfully, but...you might want to update it. When was the last time Marcus Smart forced a contested three early in the clock? "Often", lol wut? What games are you watching? DVR'd games from 2 years ago?

If that is what you think, then you must not watch many games. He's done it countless times in these playoffs alone (especially game 1). 

I don't get why, but when Smart takes those shots half the fans give him a free pass on it.  When Evan Turner or Avery Bradley took that shot last season, people wanted their heads. 

People on this forum clearly allow their respect for Smart (for his work ethic, hustle, etc) to blind their judgment of all the incredibly poor decisions he makes on the court.  Watch game one of these playoffs, and keep an eye on Smart.  Look at the shots he takes, the passes he attempts, the dribble moves he tries. 

The game is absolutely littered with Marcus Smart forcing ill advised shots, making dangerous passes, loosing control of his dribble, etc.  People ignore it when he does these things, and I can't fathom why.

Granted, I'm not saying he is the only guy who made mistakes of that nature - Olynyk and Bradley had a few mishaps of their own. But Smart does stuff like that ALL THE TIME and people just let it go.

Take a look at Smart's shooting numbers on a game by game bases, through the regular season.  How many times do you see shooting nights of "1-9", "2-12", etc.  It's almost every single night that he's putting up numbers like hat.  You don't put up shooting numbers like that on a near nightly basis if you are taking wise shots.

Now go back to those games, watch them, look at the shots he takes. At least half of them are terrible, and yes - a lot of them are contested, early in the shot clock, before the offence is properly set. 

If you can't see that, then all I can suggest is that you need to watch these Celtics games with a much higher degree of objectivity, because you are clearly only seeing what you want to see.

Now I won't deny, his overall play in these playoffs has been pretty solid.  He's gone through stretches of terrible play where he hurt the team in a major way, but then he's also gone through stretches where he's made a huge positive impact. Game one it was 50/50.  Game 2 and Game 3 he was more consistent.  Today he was again 50/50, with stretches where he was turning the ball over like a machine. 

I totally understand why people love him (his attitude, effort, etc) - and you absolutely should acknowledge the great things he does and the moments where he really impacts the game in a positive way.  But you also need to acknowledge the frequent occasions in which he really hurts the team with poor decisions and costly mistakes. 

You can't just ignore all the problems he creates, and praise all the good things he adds.

[wayupnorth]

How anyone can say that Smart is a poor ballhandler and bad decision-maker with the ball...I mean, you're kidding us, right? This is a joke, yes?

I am wondering the same thing....

[kraidstar]

Marcus, unfortunately, is held to a different standard than Jaylen and most anyone else on this team for 1 reason - he was the "answer" to our entire tanking year.  We suffered through an entire year hoping to land Embiid or Wiggins (and to some degree Parker), and were left with Marcus Smart. 

I don't agree with that at all.

Smart has been held to a different standard than Jaylen Brown because:

1.  Smart was a seasoned college player who was supposed to be one of the most NBA ready players in the draft.  Brown was a 19 year old freshman who was recognised universally as a raw athletic wing, and was seen by most as a high risk, high upside pick.  I don't think anybody expected much at all from him this year, and I would say he's exceeded those expectations by actually contributing on a fairly consistent basis.

2. Smart is now in his third season.  He's played in 207 regular season games, 13 playoff games, and has never averaged less than 27 MPG for a season.  Point here is that he has has logged a LOT of playing time and gained a LOT more experience then most third year players do.  Yet to this point, he has still not shown any major signs of progression. 

When Smart entered the league, his biggest knocks were his ball handling ability, his shooting ability, his decision making, and his lack of great athleticism.  That hasn't changed, three years in.  He still struggles handling the ball, he is still one of the worst shooters in the league (statistically), he still makes poor decisions far too often, and I still see quicker guards blow by him pretty regularly. 

He's largely still 90% the same player he was on draft day - same strengths, same limitations. We all know he has the reputation of a tireless worker, so if the guy is putting in that much effort and his game isn't really progressing, then what does that say? To me this indicates clear warning signs that Marcus Smart just doesn't have that much raw talent, doesn't have a whole lot of upside, and pretty much is who he is. 

By comparison, Jaylen Brown has only played 78 games (at 17 MPG) as a rookie, and already we have seen him progress significantly on both ends of the court.  He finished his rookie season averaging Per 36 stats of 13.8 points, 5.9 rebounds and 1.7 assists per 36 minutes on 45% / 34% / 69% shooting - he wasn't playing at anything close to that level in the two months of the season, so the progression is there.  Progression aside, those numbers are very respectable for a rookie - especially a rookie who was drafted as a 19 year old freshman, with the reputation of being a raw athlete who can't shoot.

So this is why Smart held to a different standard to guys like Brown, Rozier, etc.  He's been given all the opportunity in the world to play major minutes on a competitive team - those minutes are so much more valuable (from a learning perspective) than the type of minutes a guy like Wiggins or Embiid is getting on their respective teams.  Yet despite that, he's just not showing that his making any real progression.

I honestly don't get the "Marcus isn't a great athlete" thing.

He makes plays on defense I've literally never seen before. He is heavy and rugged, and yet he still shifts and readjusts his weight with remarkable agility and quickness.

Yes, he is exceptionally intelligent, but he also has good physical tools.

[cousytoheinsohn]

The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.

But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.

Kelly is having an exceptionally efficient game tonight, but instead of being some tough dude with tatts and a scowl who should be shooting underhand he's a goofy looking short armed white dude from Canada with a man bun on a good day. So people go "Oooohhh aaahhh Marccccuusss."  It's like reverse racism.

Sadly, there's a substantial amount of truth in this.

Kelly's relative awkwardness too often conceals his effectiveness and gets him way more grief around here than he deserves.

Absolutely.

Kelly Olynyk has been quietly efficient and effective all season long on both ends of the court, as he always is. 

Olynyk has never averaged more than 22.2 MPG - yet for his career he's averaging approximately:

* 10 Pts
* 5 rebounds
* 1.5 assists
* 48% FG
* 37% 3PT
* 74% FT

He has also ranked near the top of his position in advanced stats (on offense and defense) for three straight seasons now.   

Then as the cherry on top he's also a nice kid.  He seems like a great locker room guys, super coachable.  Never complains, argue or causes any dramas of any kind.

He might not have the killer instict or the physical talent to ever be a star in this league...but he is a Greg Popovich special.  He's the type of fundamentally sound, quietly effective two-way big that every team would love to have on it's roster.  He does a little bit of everything, and when he's not contributing in one way (e.g. scoring) he's almost always finds other ways to contribute (like playmaking, rebounding or defense).  If Boston can retain Olynyk on a reasonable deal ($7M or $8M a year, in todays cap environmen) that I think it would be a big mistake to let him go.  He still has upside and he has the potential to develop into a Robin Lopez caliber starting big man (not a flashy guy, but a solid contributer who can help a team on both ends) or a very good 6th man.

Better yet re-signing him is also a very low risk move, since his numbers have been so consistent over his first 3-4 seasons...you kinda know the bare minimum of what he's going to give you.

Really well-stated, outstanding stuff. It's good to see the nuance and the context rather than demogoguery insofar as Kelly is concerned. As you mention, the son of a hoops coach is a good kid and an excellent team guy, perhaps a little too much so for his own good. You could see where his teammates probably love him.

That's a really apt scenario as far as Pop and the Spurs. We can be certain that the august, gray-bearded master would appreciate Kelly's considerable and uniquely packaged skill-set and durn sure figure out the optimal way to put it to good use in the process of developing him properly. I don't believe Brad has distinguished himself in this regard, at all, which goes a long way toward explaining why he hasn't made more progress than we had expected.

Hopefully, it's all upside from here and he has a ton of good, steadily-improving ball ahead of him, ideally in a Celtics' uniform. When Kelly plays well, the Cs are a different team in a very good way. He could be a key the rest of the way in the playoffs.

[Dino Pitino]

...you are clearly only seeing what you want to see.

Ohhhhh-kay.

[backs away slowly]

[crimson_stallion]

How anyone can say that Smart is a poor ballhandler and bad decision-maker with the ball...I mean, you're kidding us, right? This is a joke, yes?

I will reiterate - if you disagree, then you obviously are not watching him with an open / objective mind.

Go back.  Watch game one.  Watch it objectively.

Smart made a lot of very costly errors.  A couple of possessions where he over-dribbled and held the ball too long (Rondo style) only to eventually lose his dribble - he was very lucky that one of those occasions the ball hit the defender's foot an was called a kick ball, and on the other occasion I believe a Celtics player ended up getting the loose ball and saving his butt - and so they managed to luckily avoid a turnover  Probably the reason why people choose to ignore it.

Another play where Smart had a wide open three.  Chose not to take it.  Instead tried to get closer by dribbling directly into multiple defenders - I believe that play led to a lost ball, a lucky recovery by another Boston player, who was then forced to take an unplanned shot that missed, and the opponent got the ball.

Another play Smart brought the ball up on offence, had one or two defenders right in front of him.  Before the offence even had a chance to initiate anything, he pulled up for three with two defenders nearby, and obviously missed the shot. Opponent got the rebound.

Two other plays later in the game (second half, from memory) Smart caught the ball and fired up contested threes when there was still plenty of time on the shot clock.  Lucky for him he made both shots - but they were poor decisions and he should not have taken them, regardless of whether they went in or not. 

Another possession (cant remember if this was Game 1 or Game 3) he was inbounding the ball, Rozier was driving, and Smart through a bad pass behind Rozier and out of bounds - turnover.  I believe that Chicago scored on the next possession too.

Another possession Smart made an incredibly dangerous pass into the paint to Al Horford.  There were three defenders in the path of the ball, and by pure luck the ball went between those defenders, and Horford managed (barely) to catch the ball and put it in.  A dangerous pass that Smart should not have made, but he got off because Horford saved his butt by making a heroic catch and finish.

On another play I believe he through a very dangerous cross court pass from one side of the court, past multiple defenders, to the other side of the court.  Almost got picked off - somehow by fluke it got to a Boston player's hands. 

A couple of ill advised fouls that were completely unecessary.

Multiple possessions where he was stopping the ball - standing around dribbling the ball aimlessly for way too long, with no apparent goal or action in mind. 

As I said, watch the game objectively, count the number of poor decisions Smart makes.  You won't be able to count them on one hand. You'll struggle to count them on two hands. On at least half of them he got bailed out by teammates, lazy opponents, or by sheer luck.

You can to ignore all of these mistakes if you so choose, but it's doing the Celtics no favours when everybody gets on the Smart hype train and ignores all of the major mistakes he makes on a consistent basis.

[fantankerous]

B+

[Dino Pitino]

How anyone can say that Smart is a poor ballhandler and bad decision-maker with the ball...I mean, you're kidding us, right? This is a joke, yes?

I will reiterate - if you disagree, then you obviously are not watching him with an open / objective mind.

Go back.  Watch game one.  Watch it objectively.

Smart made a lot of very costly errors.  A couple of possessions where he over-dribbled and held the ball too long (Rondo style) only to eventually lose his dribble - he was very lucky that one of those occasions the ball hit the defender's foot an was called a kick ball, and on the other occasion I believe a Celtics player ended up getting the loose ball and saving his butt - and so they managed to luckily avoid a turnover  Probably the reason why people choose to ignore it.

Another play where Smart had a wide open three.  Chose not to take it.  Instead tried to get closer by dribbling directly into multiple defenders - I believe that play led to a lost ball, a lucky recovery by another Boston player, who was then forced to take an unplanned shot that missed, and the opponent got the ball.

Another play Smart brought the ball up on offence, had one or two defenders right in front of him.  Before the offence even had a chance to initiate anything, he pulled up for three with two defenders nearby, and obviously missed the shot. Opponent got the rebound.

Two other plays later in the game (second half, from memory) Smart caught the ball and fired up contested threes when there was still plenty of time on the shot clock.  Lucky for him he made both shots - but they were poor decisions and he should not have taken them, regardless of whether they went in or not. 

Another possession (cant remember if this was Game 1 or Game 3) he was inbounding the ball, Rozier was driving, and Smart through a bad pass behind Rozier and out of bounds - turnover.  I believe that Chicago scored on the next possession too.

Another possession Smart made an incredibly dangerous pass into the paint to Al Horford.  There were three defenders in the path of the ball, and by pure luck the ball went between those defenders, and Horford managed (barely) to catch the ball and put it in.  A dangerous pass that Smart should not have made, but he got off because Horford saved his butt by making a heroic catch and finish.

On another play I believe he through a very dangerous cross court pass from one side of the court, past multiple defenders, to the other side of the court.  Almost got picked off - somehow by fluke it got to a Boston player's hands. 

A couple of ill advised fouls that were completely unecessary.

Multiple possessions where he was stopping the ball - standing around dribbling the ball aimlessly for way too long, with no apparent goal or action in mind. 

As I said, watch the game objectively, count the number of poor decisions Smart makes.  You won't be able to count them on one hand. You'll struggle to count them on two hands. On at least half of them he got bailed out by teammates, lazy opponents, or by sheer luck.

You can to ignore all of these mistakes if you so choose, but it's doing the Celtics no favours when everybody gets on the Smart hype train and ignores all of the major mistakes he makes on a consistent basis.

 

You might need a therapist.
Or, a better therapist.