Poll

Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations?

He is totally exceeding expectations.
11 (11.1%)
He is meeting expectations.
42 (42.4%)
He is not meeting expectations but he's within range.
38 (38.4%)
He is nowhere near meeting expectations.
8 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Author Topic: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.  (Read 21169 times)

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Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2017, 08:30:45 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.
But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.
Kelly is having an exceptionally efficient game tonight, but instead of being some tough dude with tatts and a scowl who should be shooting underhand he's a goofy looking short armed white dude from Canada with a man bun on a good day. So people go "Oooohhh aaahhh Marccccuusss."  It's like reverse racism.

Sadly, there's a substantial amount of truth in this.

Kelly's relative awkwardness too often conceals his effectiveness and gets him way more grief around here than he deserves.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2017, 08:33:07 PM »

Offline Eja117

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.
But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.
Kelly is having an exceptionally efficient game tonight, but instead of being some tough dude with tatts and a scowl who should be shooting underhand he's a goofy looking short armed white dude from Canada with a man bun on a good day. So people go "Oooohhh aaahhh Marccccuusss."  It's like reverse racism.

Sadly, there's a substantial amount of truth in this.

Kelly's relative awkwardness too often conceals his effectiveness and gets him way more grief around here than he deserves.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think they should bring KO back.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2017, 08:52:01 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.
But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.
Kelly is having an exceptionally efficient game tonight, but instead of being some tough dude with tatts and a scowl who should be shooting underhand he's a goofy looking short armed white dude from Canada with a man bun on a good day. So people go "Oooohhh aaahhh Marccccuusss."  It's like reverse racism.

Sadly, there's a substantial amount of truth in this.

Kelly's relative awkwardness too often conceals his effectiveness and gets him way more grief around here than he deserves.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think they should bring KO back.

I go back and forth on this, as several of us do.

I don't think Brad has managed him particularly well. I also think he can get a lot better if handled properly and can definitely learn to be consistently consistent, so to speak. I hope they keep him on a team-friendly deal, if possible, and he realizes what appears to be his potential in Boston. One thing's for sure, when Kelly plays well, the Celtics are a different beast and really difficult to beat.

I also think the the Cs are not only gonna win the series with the Bulls but win the NBA title this year so you prolly oughtta take what I think with a grain of salt. :laugh:

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #78 on: April 23, 2017, 08:55:49 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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He's meeting expectations though he can still elevate his game a bit to a higher level. (scary thought for the league)

Next question..
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2017, 09:07:26 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Marcus has that elusive "it".  I never expected him to be so clutch.  He can shoot 2-7 and still make a major impact on a must win playoff game.  I don't know how to grade what he does but I like it.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2017, 09:09:57 PM »

Offline chambers

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Even if you don't think Smart can get any better, you've gotta love him for the little things he does every night.

He's arguably the hardest playing dude in the NBA.

True Celtic heart.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2017, 09:14:54 PM »

Online liam

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Smart vs Randle, so far Smart is much better in the playoffs!

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #82 on: April 23, 2017, 09:19:06 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Even if you don't think Smart can get any better, you've gotta love him for the little things he does every night.

He's arguably the hardest playing dude in the NBA.

True Celtic heart.
When you shoot like him you should be the hardest playing dude in the NBA. Luckily he is.

Now let's see if he's the hardest practicing.

The great thing about Marcus is that if he works hard enough on his shot that he becomes a merely bad shooter he'll be a very very good player. Probably.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2017, 09:25:26 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Marcus again fills up the stat sheet.  Tony Allen was 23 (Marcus' age) when he came into the NBA.  It took him about 6-8 years to become a valued NBA player who you could rely on not to give up the ball every time he touched it.  Marcus is already as good as the prime Tony Allen in my opinion. If that's all Marcus is, I am OK with that, but I expect him to become a more consistent shooter and an increasingly smart offensive player.  He's a guy who will be a 4th/5th offensive option who will win playoff games for his team with grit, defense and clutch offensive performances.   I hope he stay a Celtic.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2017, 09:30:56 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Marcus again fills up the stat sheet.  Tony Allen was 23 (Marcus' age) when he came into the NBA.  It took him about 6-8 years to become a valued NBA player who you could rely on not to give up the ball every time he touched it.  Marcus is already as good as the prime Tony Allen in my opinion. If that's all Marcus is, I am OK with that, but I expect him to become a more consistent shooter and an increasingly smart offensive player.  He's a guy who will be a 4th/5th offensive option who will win playoff games for his team with grit, defense and clutch offensive performances.   I hope he stay a Celtic.
I can't agree to Marcus being better than T Allen prime.  For one thing T Allen was a far better shooter. That said I agree with all the rest of this.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2017, 09:59:50 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Without various cop out answers like "The expectations have always been unfair" or something like that where do you rank Marcus Smart?

To me he's a sixth man via his tough play and defense. Yes he tries very hard all the time, but that's not good enough. He wasn't drafted 6th to be a 6th man. He as supposed to be beating out Avery Bradley by now and it's not even close.

He's a great defender and that's all he is. You don't try to draft Bruce Bowen or something with the 6th pick.

I think the expectations were...by the third year....a solid starter in this league. A good offensive player. A good passer/playmaker.

He's nothing like that. He's just a  try hard intense player who has a knack for showing up big in tough spots. Not good enough.

I respect him but I think he's a pick that is a missed opportunity.

I agree on all counts.

There are four points about Smart that I would consider positives.

* He's the ultimate energy / effort guy - plays hard and with passion every night, and I respect that (even if his on court antics become too much sometimes)
* He's a good defensive player - I don't for a second consider him elite (like many here do) but he is consistently good on defense
* He's a very good rebounder for a combo guard
* He's become must better at drawing fouls, and has improved a lot as a free throw shooter - this is really the only consistent positive to his offensive game, but it's something

Unfortunately though, with those positives come a lot of negatives...

* He's a poor ballhandler for a guard - he lacks advanced dribble moves and often struggles to control the ball under intense defensive pressure
* He lacks any consistency as a shooter - He'll have games here and there where he shoots well, but more often the not his shot charts reads "1-8", "2-9" or similar
* He lacks disipline as a shooter - Often will force contested threes early in the shot clock, when a teammate has a better look, leading to an opponent rebound/possession
* He lacks discipline as a passer - Contrary, he often passes up WIDE open threes to instead try and force dangerous passes to teammates, often leading to an opponent steal/possession
* He lacks discipline as a person - We've seen him make gestures at fans, argue with officials, attempt stupid flops, punch walls in locker rooms...if he keeps this up he'll soon build up a Demarcus Cousins type reputation, and officials will show him zero love on calls.

But my biggest concern of all is that he's now had three seasons of starter-like minutes on NBA Playoff teams, and yet in those three seasons he hasn't really shown any obvious signs of progression.  He's gotten better at drawing fouls and has improved as a free throw shooter, but that's really the only improvement he has shown in three years.  He's still basically the same player he was when he came out of college. 

I concur with your assessment. 

Before the draft I loved Smart's upside, and I thought he could be a special player and a core component of this team moving forward.  I expected him to be, at worst, a Victor Oladipo caliber of player.  A quality two-way starter who could give you aroud 14/5/5.  If he were to become that, then I would consider that a pretty solid return for a guy taken in the #6 - #10 range.   

The reality is that he's so far nowhere near that point.  He's currently a 6th man at best, defensive role player at worst.  I'd say he's leaning more towards the "role player" side of things, because I just don't feel he is consistent enough to be depended on as a 6th man.  Additionally he's failed to show the type of develpment that would convince me that he might one day take that extra step to the guy I hoped he would be.

All of that said, he is still only 24 years old, and if you at other guys on our team (Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, etc) it's clear that a lot of guys out there really don't show what they are truly capable of until they reach that 27 - 28 age range.  So we may well find that Smart remains this guy for another 2 or 3 years and then breaks out.  I'm just not sure if I'm willing to wait that long to see some progression, and at this stage I'm not sure if I'd be willing to offer Smart a contract extension in such a money-heavy cap environment.  Im afraid I'd probably allow him to go the way of the Sully.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2017, 10:10:17 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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Marcus, unfortunately, is held to a different standard than Jaylen and most anyone else on this team for 1 reason - he was the "answer" to our entire tanking year.  We suffered through an entire year hoping to land Embiid or Wiggins (and to some degree Parker), and were left with Marcus Smart. 

But compared to those around him in the draft (Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Julius Randle, and Nik Stauskus), I am very glad that we have Marcus on this team in the playoffs.  I was okay with the draft pick, and even thought he was kind of a bust last year, but these playoffs he really grew on me.  The guy is a winner and makes 10 plays a game that make a meaningful impact.  If he can develop a better 3-point shot then he'll be really valuable.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2017, 10:12:45 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Marcus, unfortunately, is held to a different standard than Jaylen and most anyone else on this team for 1 reason - he was the "answer" to our entire tanking year.  We suffered through an entire year hoping to land Embiid or Wiggins (and to some degree Parker), and were left with Marcus Smart. 

But compared to those around him in the draft (Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Julius Randle, and Nik Stauskus), I am very glad that we have Marcus on this team in the playoffs.  I was okay with the draft pick, and even thought he was kind of a bust last year, but these playoffs he really grew on me.  The guy is a winner and makes 10 plays a game that make a meaningful impact.  If he can develop a better 3-point shot then he'll be really valuable.

TP ...good post

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2017, 10:23:08 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Where would a 23 year old defensive point guard be taken in this years draft?

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2017, 10:29:18 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.
But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.
Kelly is having an exceptionally efficient game tonight, but instead of being some tough dude with tatts and a scowl who should be shooting underhand he's a goofy looking short armed white dude from Canada with a man bun on a good day. So people go "Oooohhh aaahhh Marccccuusss."  It's like reverse racism.

Sadly, there's a substantial amount of truth in this.

Kelly's relative awkwardness too often conceals his effectiveness and gets him way more grief around here than he deserves.

Absolutely.

Kelly Olynyk has been quietly efficient and effective all season long on both ends of the court, as he always is. 

Olynyk has never averaged more than 22.2 MPG - yet for his career he's averaging approximately:

* 10 Pts
* 5 rebounds
* 1.5 assists
* 48% FG
* 37% 3PT
* 74% FT

He has also ranked near the top of his position in advanced stats (on offense and defense) for three straight seasons now.   

Then as the cherry on top he's also a nice kid.  He seems like a great locker room guys, super coachable.  Never complains, argue or causes any dramas of any kind.

He might not have the killer instict or the physical talent to ever be a star in this league...but he is a Greg Popovich special.  He's the type of fundamentally sound, quietly effective two-way big that every team would love to have on it's roster.  He does a little bit of everything, and when he's not contributing in one way (e.g. scoring) he's almost always finds other ways to contribute (like playmaking, rebounding or defense).  If Boston can retain Olynyk on a reasonable deal ($7M or $8M a year, in todays cap environmen) that I think it would be a big mistake to let him go.  He still has upside and he has the potential to develop into a Robin Lopez caliber starting big man (not a flashy guy, but a solid contributer who can help a team on both ends) or a very good 6th man.

Better yet re-signing him is also a very low risk move, since his numbers have been so consistent over his first 3-4 seasons...you kinda know the bare minimum of what he's going to give you.