Poll

Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations?

He is totally exceeding expectations.
11 (11.1%)
He is meeting expectations.
42 (42.4%)
He is not meeting expectations but he's within range.
38 (38.4%)
He is nowhere near meeting expectations.
8 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Author Topic: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.  (Read 21042 times)

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Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2017, 08:55:42 AM »

Offline mctyson

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I dont think he met the expectations of 6th pick we tanked for in a "loaded draft". That expectation, or at least hope, was that he would turn into a borderline all-star point guard of the future type.

So in that sense he has not met expectations.

THat said, was he a good pick? Id say absolutely.

He was in a tier of players with Gordon, Exum, Randle, and Vonleh.

I get picking Gordon or Randle over him, but I for one, think Marcus is the best of the bunch. I think he was a good pick. The expectations for that whole draft were higher than they ever should have been.

Also, I think Smart is the best 6th man in the league, which isnt bad as a 23 year old kid.
You think Smart is better than Aaron Gordon and J Randle? 

He's not as good as Elfrid Payton (picked 10th) either.  I definitely take him over Vonleh and Exum.

It is a meaningless exercise to look at a draft class and "re-draft" them after 3 years of experience. 

Players are picked on draft night at slots based on scouting, projections, team needs, and competitive intel.  Everything that happens after that is up to the player and his development. 

Many times teams get the projection part wrong, but it is not like they are the only team rating players.  You can criticize busts like Anthony Bennet, but then realize that nearly all the other franchises would have likely selected him #1 as well.  What does that say about the hindsight analysis?  Nothing, just that drafting players is always a risk and it is largely up to them to hit their projections.

As for Marcus Smart,  I would point to the fact that Smart is playing 30+ min for one of the best teams in the NBA as the only evidence you need that he is meeting his projections.  This doesn't matter to his detractors, and I understand that.  But that is also why you guys don't run basketball teams.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 09:01:20 AM by mctyson »

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2017, 09:11:54 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I dont think he met the expectations of 6th pick we tanked for in a "loaded draft". That expectation, or at least hope, was that he would turn into a borderline all-star point guard of the future type.

So in that sense he has not met expectations.

THat said, was he a good pick? Id say absolutely.

He was in a tier of players with Gordon, Exum, Randle, and Vonleh.

I get picking Gordon or Randle over him, but I for one, think Marcus is the best of the bunch. I think he was a good pick. The expectations for that whole draft were higher than they ever should have been.

Also, I think Smart is the best 6th man in the league, which isnt bad as a 23 year old kid.
You think Smart is better than Aaron Gordon and J Randle? 

He's not as good as Elfrid Payton (picked 10th) either.  I definitely take him over Vonleh and Exum.

It is a meaningless exercise to look at a draft class and "re-draft" them after 3 years of experience. 

Players are picked on draft night at slots based on scouting, projections, team needs, and competitive intel.  Everything that happens after that is up to the player and his development. 

Many times teams get the projection part wrong, but it is not like they are the only team rating players.  You can criticize busts like Anthony Bennet, but then realize that nearly all the other franchises would have likely selected him #1 as well.  What does that say about the hindsight analysis?  Nothing, just that drafting players is always a risk and it is largely up to them to hit their projections.

As for Marcus Smart,  I would point to the fact that Smart is playing 30+ min for one of the best teams in the NBA as the only evidence you need that he is meeting his projections.  This doesn't matter to his detractors, and I understand that.  But that is also why you guys don't run basketball teams.
There are a bunch of people on this blog I'd feel more comfortable with drafting than Ainge.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2017, 10:15:43 AM »

Offline chambers

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.
 
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2017, 10:36:46 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Rozier who would essentially replace everything Smart does except scowl and flip people off.
lol

you dont watch the games I see.
No no. I do. I think that's the issue here.
doing so with a blindfold on doesn't count.

your premise is faulty. 
you personally had specific expectations of whatever player was taken at a #6 spot in a draft.  your commentary indicates that you feel that type of player is always available at that slot and that because Marcus doesn't have the skills you adamantly believe should be present in all players taken at that slot that he then must be a failure.

each draft is different.  there are different players of differing skillsets and each draft has a different depth of quality players.  this is unescapable.  thinking every draft has a player available at #6 who is going to be a surefire starter isn't realistic and that's on you, not Marcus or any other player taken at that slot.  even in terms of the other players taken in the draft with Marcus, they're not world beaters.  none of them. 

you mention Randle as a starter and use him as a measuring stick but he's on a crap team with no one ahead of him on the depth roster.  that's not a tribute to how good Randle is but how bad that roster is.  I wouldn't trade Smart for Randle nor any of the other players taken in the couple of slots ahead of him to anywhere after him. 

Do I wish Smart was a better shooter?  absolutely.  do I think he's a disappointment or failure?  no.
You do realize an entire draft can bust right? Only his entire draft isn't a bust. Several players picked right around him are just better for him and would be better fits for us. I get people have an emotional attachment to him. I don't.
the draft isn't a bust, YOU are just disappointed based on your PERSONAL expectations.

Who exactly drafted around Marcus is better?  please enlighten.  Isn't Gordon, Exum, Randle or Vonleh.  who's even close?

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2017, 10:45:52 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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Rozier who would essentially replace everything Smart does except scowl and flip people off.
lol

you dont watch the games I see.
No no. I do. I think that's the issue here.
doing so with a blindfold on doesn't count.

your premise is faulty. 
you personally had specific expectations of whatever player was taken at a #6 spot in a draft.  your commentary indicates that you feel that type of player is always available at that slot and that because Marcus doesn't have the skills you adamantly believe should be present in all players taken at that slot that he then must be a failure.

each draft is different.  there are different players of differing skillsets and each draft has a different depth of quality players.  this is unescapable.  thinking every draft has a player available at #6 who is going to be a surefire starter isn't realistic and that's on you, not Marcus or any other player taken at that slot.  even in terms of the other players taken in the draft with Marcus, they're not world beaters.  none of them. 

you mention Randle as a starter and use him as a measuring stick but he's on a crap team with no one ahead of him on the depth roster.  that's not a tribute to how good Randle is but how bad that roster is.  I wouldn't trade Smart for Randle nor any of the other players taken in the couple of slots ahead of him to anywhere after him. 

Do I wish Smart was a better shooter?  absolutely.  do I think he's a disappointment or failure?  no.
You do realize an entire draft can bust right? Only his entire draft isn't a bust. Several players picked right around him are just better for him and would be better fits for us. I get people have an emotional attachment to him. I don't.
the draft isn't a bust, YOU are just disappointed based on your PERSONAL expectations.

Who exactly drafted around Marcus is better?  please enlighten.  Isn't Gordon, Exum, Randle or Vonleh.  who's even close?

Who are you tell whether somebody is better? Back up the statements you make.

You please explain.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2017, 11:23:49 AM »

Offline LilRip

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

The FT% is encouraging. I sincerely hope he improves significantly. If he does, I'd be real comfortable starting him and including Bradley in a bigger trade (maybe for PG13?)

- LilRip

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2017, 11:27:50 AM »

Offline bdm860

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The expectation with drafting in the top 10 is probably a lot like being on a game show.

If you went on Family Feud or Price is Right or Wheel of Fortune, and if you don't come home with at least $20k and/or a new car and/or a great all expenses paid vacation, you'd be disappointed, and so would most people you told.

"Oh you were on Price is Right?  Did you win a new car?  Did you win the showcase showdown?"
Actually I didn't make it that far, but I won a new set of golf clubs.

"Wow, I heard you and your family were on Family Feud and actually won! That's awesome, how much did you win?  Did you win the $20k all 5 days?"
Actually, we didn't win Fast Money, and then got beaten by the other family the next day, so we only ended up winning $500 (split 5 ways).

Statistically, the majority of the contestants don't advance or win anything.  They lose.  You won something, so you're already doing better than most, but you went in hoping for a lot more than you got, even though what you're hoping for wasn't statistically likely.

I didn't have to fly all the way to Hollywood and appear on a nationally televised game show to win Marcus Smart, I could have stayed home a won a local raffle or radio call in and won just as much.

That's kind of how I feel about Smart.  I love him. Probably my favorite player on the team, but I was hoping he'd turn into more than he is currently.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2017, 11:32:42 AM »

Offline ederson

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The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2017, 11:33:44 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Marcus Smart is the only guy on this team that could've been in the rotation from the 2008-12 Celtics teams with KG, PP and Rondo. He IS the closet thing we have to KG but just not as vocal. I bet he clearly understood KGs video. He's just not the vet leader on the team but in time he will be.

Let's bring that dog again today fellas.


Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2017, 11:42:12 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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Marcus Smart is the only guy on this team that could've been in the rotation from the 2008-12 Celtics teams with KG, PP and Rondo. He IS the closet thing we have to KG but just not as vocal. I bet he clearly understood KGs video. He's just not the vet leader on the team but in time he will be.

Let's bring that dog again today fellas.

I mean then you wonder why I just cannot speak to some of these Celticbloggers.

Closest thing to KG ? Not even close to as valuable. I don't care If they talk the same or have a fiery attitude.

Crowder could easily have been in the rotation and man he would have been amazing in that role.

You are telling that Horford would not have been a rotation player?

You are delusional bro.

We did not need defense on those teams. Marcus was not needed.


Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2017, 11:46:16 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Rozier who would essentially replace everything Smart does except scowl and flip people off.
lol

you dont watch the games I see.
No no. I do. I think that's the issue here.
doing so with a blindfold on doesn't count.

your premise is faulty. 
you personally had specific expectations of whatever player was taken at a #6 spot in a draft.  your commentary indicates that you feel that type of player is always available at that slot and that because Marcus doesn't have the skills you adamantly believe should be present in all players taken at that slot that he then must be a failure.

each draft is different.  there are different players of differing skillsets and each draft has a different depth of quality players.  this is unescapable.  thinking every draft has a player available at #6 who is going to be a surefire starter isn't realistic and that's on you, not Marcus or any other player taken at that slot.  even in terms of the other players taken in the draft with Marcus, they're not world beaters.  none of them. 

you mention Randle as a starter and use him as a measuring stick but he's on a crap team with no one ahead of him on the depth roster.  that's not a tribute to how good Randle is but how bad that roster is.  I wouldn't trade Smart for Randle nor any of the other players taken in the couple of slots ahead of him to anywhere after him. 

Do I wish Smart was a better shooter?  absolutely.  do I think he's a disappointment or failure?  no.
You do realize an entire draft can bust right? Only his entire draft isn't a bust. Several players picked right around him are just better for him and would be better fits for us. I get people have an emotional attachment to him. I don't.
the draft isn't a bust, YOU are just disappointed based on your PERSONAL expectations.

Who exactly drafted around Marcus is better?  please enlighten.  Isn't Gordon, Exum, Randle or Vonleh.  who's even close?

Who are you tell whether somebody is better? Back up the statements you make.

You please explain.
who am I?  just another observer but one that doesn't place expectations on a player just because of his draft slot.

As for why I think Smart is better, that's MY personal opinion based on the following:
Smart --> we've seen him play.  Top defender of his draft class.  I can't imagine that would get a lot of debate but if someone can make a case for anyone else, please do.  We've seen his offense --> outside shot is suspect.  FT shooting is improving.  Ball handling and passing are improving.
Career: 9.3 pts, 3.8 rbs, 3.7 asst, 3.6 VORP

His comparisons:
Aaron Gordon (#4)--> not the defender many expected.  9.7 pts, 5.3 rbs, 1.5 asst on a worse Orlando team.  2.4 VORP
Dante Exum (#5) --> hasn't accomplished a lot in the time he's been healthy.  5.4 pts, 1.8 rbs, 2.1 asst, -1.0 VORP
Julius Randle (#7) --> seems to get the most 'regret' posts in regards to Smart --> 12.2 pts, 9.4 rbs, 2.6 asst, 0.1 VORP.  Plays a lot of minutes on a crappy Laker team. D is nonexistent.  hasn't led the Lakers out of the their lottery misery.
Elfrid Payton (#10) --> worse 3pt and FT shooter than Smart -->10.8 pts, 4.2 rbs, 6.5 asst, 2.9 VORP.  Starter on bad Orlando team. 
Would anyone really consider Vonleh, Stauskas or Mcdermott as better players? 

Someone could make a case for Saric, Lavine and Nurkic as better selections but none of them were rated as highly for their draft class.   none of them fit the description of the type of player that the OP expected from a #6 pick (Saric's had one year in the league but if he turns out as good as Philly hopes, he'd have been the #4 player in this draft, not #6).

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2017, 11:49:48 AM »

Offline billysan

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Marcus Smart is the only guy on this team that could've been in the rotation from the 2008-12 Celtics teams with KG, PP and Rondo. He IS the closet thing we have to KG but just not as vocal. I bet he clearly understood KGs video. He's just not the vet leader on the team but in time he will be.

Let's bring that dog again today fellas.

I mean then you wonder why I just cannot speak to some of these Celticbloggers.

Closest thing to KG ? Not even close to as valuable. I don't care If they talk the same or have a fiery attitude.

Crowder could easily have been in the rotation and man he would have been amazing in that role.

You are telling that Horford would not have been a rotation player?

You are delusional bro.

We did not need defense on those teams. Marcus was not needed.


For me, Smart is the closest to KG on our current roster in intensity and lead by example with big effort type traits. He took that role from Jae Crowder.

In no way does he match KG in Any  category but afterall, who does?

Smart is a valuable asset and my only complaint is impatience with his development as a scorer.

How many games if we are honest has he pulled us back into with his effort off the bench?
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2017, 11:54:24 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2017, 12:10:55 PM »

Offline Dannys Chipotle Guy

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How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.
second half of the season stats from tanking teams is hardly terrific evidence.

Payton does have more "skills" but that doesnt mean he will impact winning as much as Marcus Smart does. I, in fact, dont think Payton will ever impact winning as much as Elfrid does, but it is certainly possible.

Re: Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2017, 12:23:37 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.
second half of the season stats from tanking teams is hardly terrific evidence.

Payton does have more "skills" but that doesnt mean he will impact winning as much as Marcus Smart does. I, in fact, dont think Payton will ever impact winning as much as Elfrid does, but it is certainly possible.

You can think that. Although that does not make you right. Fans seem to grasp at straws when facts and reality is pointed out to them, or some hypothetical thing that has no backing.

Of course you can think that Elfrid will never have an impact on winning. That is a fair opinion that could come from anybody. I can also say that I think Elfrid will. We are both not making any ground on that.

I am strictly talking ability and skill level.

Right now Smart is perfect for the Celtics team. I think his impact would probably be better than Payton , of course, because Smart is a better and tougher defender. Also Payton is a terrible 3 point shooter as well.

But to discredit the numbers that Payton puts up is a lousy cop out of non recognition. Smart puts up those numbers, Celtic fans would be anointing Smart a legend, even if it was done on a crappy Celtics team. You cannot tell me they would not. Maybe not you, but most would love to see Smart put up numbers like FG for a whole month of 50%, averaging 8 assists and 8 rebounds , as Elfrid did.

Of course you have to discredit him. But IF it was Smart doing those types of numbers on a crappy Celtics team , everyone including you would be praising his amazing game lol.