Is Marcus Smart meeting expectations? Grade him here.

[slamtheking]

How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.

you're overlooking the fact he's getting just as much time as the other players in his draft without having to start.  think about that -- he's getting as much time on the court as Gordon, Payton, Randle, etc... but he's taking that time from better players than those other guys.   the other players are getting their time because they're better options for their teams and those teams don't have a lot of choice in who they can put on the court.  Smart is getting that time because he's earned it and makes an impact when he's on the court.  This was the premise of the original post.  His shooting wasn't.  No one's arguing that his shooting is terrific but that he's a terrific player and in spite of that he can still improve.  I'd be skeptical of that he'll improve much but there have been a number of players whose shooting has improved during their careers.  our own AB and Crowder are examples of that.

[Phantom255x]

I hope Smart reads this and goes off in Game 4 

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.

second half of the season stats from tanking teams is hardly terrific evidence.

Payton does have more "skills" but that doesnt mean he will impact winning as much as Marcus Smart does. I, in fact, dont think Payton will ever impact winning as much as Elfrid does, but it is certainly possible.

You can think that. Although that does not make you right. Fans seem to grasp at straws when facts and reality is pointed out to them, or some hypothetical thing that has no backing.

Of course you can think that Elfrid will never have an impact on winning. That is a fair opinion that could come from anybody. I can also say that I think Elfrid will. We are both not making any ground on that.

I am strictly talking ability and skill level.

Right now Smart is perfect for the Celtics team. I think his impact would probably be better than Payton , of course, because Smart is a better and tougher defender. Also Payton is a terrible 3 point shooter as well.

But to discredit the numbers that Payton puts up is a lousy cop out of non recognition. Smart puts up those numbers, Celtic fans would be anointing Smart a legend, even if it was done on a crappy Celtics team. You cannot tell me they would not. Maybe not you, but most would love to see Smart put up numbers like FG for a whole month of 50%, averaging 8 assists and 8 rebounds , as Elfrid did.

Of course you have to discredit him. But IF it was Smart doing those types of numbers on a crappy Celtics team , everyone including you would be praising his amazing game lol.

Payton impacts winning, just not as much as Marcus.

Plus, while you cant completely discount the stats (and many Celtics fans would indeed be anointing him if he put them up here) second half stats on Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty teams are simply not that valuable.

[Eja117]

I hope Smart reads this and goes off in Game 4 

If it happens I'm taking the credit

[celtics2030]

How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.

second half of the season stats from tanking teams is hardly terrific evidence.

Payton does have more "skills" but that doesnt mean he will impact winning as much as Marcus Smart does. I, in fact, dont think Payton will ever impact winning as much as Elfrid does, but it is certainly possible.

You can think that. Although that does not make you right. Fans seem to grasp at straws when facts and reality is pointed out to them, or some hypothetical thing that has no backing.

Of course you can think that Elfrid will never have an impact on winning. That is a fair opinion that could come from anybody. I can also say that I think Elfrid will. We are both not making any ground on that.

I am strictly talking ability and skill level.

Right now Smart is perfect for the Celtics team. I think his impact would probably be better than Payton , of course, because Smart is a better and tougher defender. Also Payton is a terrible 3 point shooter as well.

But to discredit the numbers that Payton puts up is a lousy cop out of non recognition. Smart puts up those numbers, Celtic fans would be anointing Smart a legend, even if it was done on a crappy Celtics team. You cannot tell me they would not. Maybe not you, but most would love to see Smart put up numbers like FG for a whole month of 50%, averaging 8 assists and 8 rebounds , as Elfrid did.

Of course you have to discredit him. But IF it was Smart doing those types of numbers on a crappy Celtics team , everyone including you would be praising his amazing game lol.

Payton impacts winning, just not as much as Marcus.

Plus, while you cant completely discount the stats (and many Celtics fans would indeed be anointing him if he put them up here) second half stats on ****ty teams are simply not that valuable.

Obviously you can do that since the team stinks, but his numbers were not just normal average numbers.

The guy was killing it. You don't get 14, 11, 12, and 10 rebounds in 5 games if you are not talented

You don't get 3 triple doubles in a 5 game span and you are not talented

You do not average 8 rebounds and 8 asssits for a whole month

Also improving ft % , FG % every single month.

You just don't do that to a player by saying they are tanking. No question we can do a bit of doubt for the 2nd half of season.

But the fact was they did a line up change and finally gave Payton the starting to job indefinently.


When he played the Celtics and had 15 assists 9 rebounds and 12 points in a game where he drove by Smart and almost made the game winning layup. It is hard to argue that they were tanking or that the Celtics were not trying to win that game.

[max215]

I'd say that he's been successful in unexpected ways. Has he evolved into the point guard of the future, the heir to Rondo's throne? Unequivocally, no. Has he proven to be a positive presence, one who consistently contributes to winning basketball games? Absolutely. Ultimately, that likely means he's been slightly disappointing, yet still quite valuable and important.

Additionally, some of the declarative statements made by the OP are patently ridiculous. I think I'd rather have Gordon than Smart, which doesn't really reflect poorly on the C's given their draft slots, but the idea that Randle is clearly better (or better at all) than Smart is ludicrous. Randle has been consistently bad to meh on one of the worst teams in the league. And following that theme, I think it's very unfair to call Smart a "missed opportunity." Due to our need for increased scoring on the second unit, I would probably concede that we'd be better off with Zach Lavine than Smart. Gary Harris and Clint Capela are another two that I'd likely take over Smart. However, to draft any of these guys at #6 would have been considered certifiably insane at the time.

Let me get this straight.....you say if we traded Smart for Randle straight up we get worse and they get better? The Lakers trade us a starter (Randle would absolutely start here) and they get a 6th man (at best). We insert Rozier who would essentially replace everything Smart does except scowl and flip people off. We get better. They get worse.  Randle is better. And not by a little bit.

Absolutely. Randle is truly terrible. His On-Off was -7 on arguably the worst team in the league.

Ah yes. I'm sure those on/off stats for Smart and Randle wouldn't change if they changed teams.   If we're gonna go by on/off stats then Tyler Ennis and Tarick Black are two of the best Lakers. Heck Ennis is a +15 and Smart is -.01. We found our trade.

You're right, they probably would change. Seeing as the players starting in front of Randle here would be even better than his backups in LA, his On-Off numbers would probably look even worse. And with Smart no longer backing up one of the best PG's in the league, his would probably improve.

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.

second half of the season stats from tanking teams is hardly terrific evidence.

Payton does have more "skills" but that doesnt mean he will impact winning as much as Marcus Smart does. I, in fact, dont think Payton will ever impact winning as much as Elfrid does, but it is certainly possible.

You can think that. Although that does not make you right. Fans seem to grasp at straws when facts and reality is pointed out to them, or some hypothetical thing that has no backing.

Of course you can think that Elfrid will never have an impact on winning. That is a fair opinion that could come from anybody. I can also say that I think Elfrid will. We are both not making any ground on that.

I am strictly talking ability and skill level.

Right now Smart is perfect for the Celtics team. I think his impact would probably be better than Payton , of course, because Smart is a better and tougher defender. Also Payton is a terrible 3 point shooter as well.

But to discredit the numbers that Payton puts up is a lousy cop out of non recognition. Smart puts up those numbers, Celtic fans would be anointing Smart a legend, even if it was done on a crappy Celtics team. You cannot tell me they would not. Maybe not you, but most would love to see Smart put up numbers like FG for a whole month of 50%, averaging 8 assists and 8 rebounds , as Elfrid did.

Of course you have to discredit him. But IF it was Smart doing those types of numbers on a crappy Celtics team , everyone including you would be praising his amazing game lol.

Payton impacts winning, just not as much as Marcus.

Plus, while you cant completely discount the stats (and many Celtics fans would indeed be anointing him if he put them up here) second half stats on ****ty teams are simply not that valuable.

Obviously you can do that since the team stinks, but his numbers were not just normal average numbers.

The guy was killing it. You don't get 14, 11, 12, and 10 rebounds in 5 games if you are not talented

You don't get 3 triple doubles in a 5 game span and you are not talented

You do not average 8 rebounds and 8 asssits for a whole month

Also improving ft % , FG % every single month.

You just don't do that to a player by saying they are tanking. No question we can do a bit of doubt for the 2nd half of season.

But the fact was they did a line up change and finally gave Payton the starting to job indefinently.


When he played the Celtics and had 15 assists 9 rebounds and 12 points in a game where he drove by Smart and almost made the game winning layup. It is hard to argue that they were tanking or that the Celtics were not trying to win that game.

I mean the fact that it took him this long to win the starting job for a trash magic team over DJ Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing Augustin is far from encouraging.

Second, he didnt play Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. for defense, youve admitted that.

third, I dont care that he was able to rack up a lot of rebounds down the stretch for a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty team. That is exactly the kind of stat I really dont care about. I dont even care about Avery Bradley's 7 rebounds a game he put up first half of this season and I certainly dont care that Elfrid Payton matched those numbers down the stretch for a trash magic team.

His a/to ratio was impressive and the positive progression on fg% and ft% is good. He is obviously talented. He has the athletic ability to create things on offense that Smart never will have.

Payton is more talented. Marcus helps basketball teams win more games.

also, this whole discussion is kinda moot because Payton wasnt ever in discussion for the #6 pick, that would have been a huge reach at the time and Ive been on this blog long enough to know that you arent about to budge on Elfrid Payton. Please dont accuse Celtics fans of being biased towards Marcus tho, because you like Payton more than most people here like the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing Celtics.

[celtics2030]

How about stop blaming players for being on bad teams

It can just as bad of a detriment to them as being on a good team. Smart might have lucked out on being on the Celtics. If Randle was on the Celtics and making a difference , I doubt Celtic fans would be wanting to trade him for Smart if he was on another team.


You also included statistics from 3 season averages?

You don't want to see who is improving or not do you ?

If we take out love for Smart on emotional levels. Its easy to see that fans love him.

But if you want to talk about skillset and potential abilities , you have other players, who have all the abilities that he doesn't

the players you listed all have a better NBA skillset than Smart. No question about it.

And if you post season 3 , Marcus Smart's numbers are not better than the last.

You look at Elfrid Payton and even if his 3 point percentage sucks, he shot like 1 percent worse, but didn't take nowhere as near as many as Smart did.

Why because Elfrid can actually drive to the basket and finish.

I get that Smart is important. He plays 30 minutes a game for a reason. I love his type of player because they want to win in any way possible.

But I know for a fact he just doesn't have the NBA body or athleticism or "gifts" to be a good offensive player. He just does not.

second half of the season stats from tanking teams is hardly terrific evidence.

Payton does have more "skills" but that doesnt mean he will impact winning as much as Marcus Smart does. I, in fact, dont think Payton will ever impact winning as much as Elfrid does, but it is certainly possible.

You can think that. Although that does not make you right. Fans seem to grasp at straws when facts and reality is pointed out to them, or some hypothetical thing that has no backing.

Of course you can think that Elfrid will never have an impact on winning. That is a fair opinion that could come from anybody. I can also say that I think Elfrid will. We are both not making any ground on that.

I am strictly talking ability and skill level.

Right now Smart is perfect for the Celtics team. I think his impact would probably be better than Payton , of course, because Smart is a better and tougher defender. Also Payton is a terrible 3 point shooter as well.

But to discredit the numbers that Payton puts up is a lousy cop out of non recognition. Smart puts up those numbers, Celtic fans would be anointing Smart a legend, even if it was done on a crappy Celtics team. You cannot tell me they would not. Maybe not you, but most would love to see Smart put up numbers like FG for a whole month of 50%, averaging 8 assists and 8 rebounds , as Elfrid did.

Of course you have to discredit him. But IF it was Smart doing those types of numbers on a crappy Celtics team , everyone including you would be praising his amazing game lol.

Payton impacts winning, just not as much as Marcus.

Plus, while you cant completely discount the stats (and many Celtics fans would indeed be anointing him if he put them up here) second half stats on ****ty teams are simply not that valuable.

Obviously you can do that since the team stinks, but his numbers were not just normal average numbers.

The guy was killing it. You don't get 14, 11, 12, and 10 rebounds in 5 games if you are not talented

You don't get 3 triple doubles in a 5 game span and you are not talented

You do not average 8 rebounds and 8 asssits for a whole month

Also improving ft % , FG % every single month.

You just don't do that to a player by saying they are tanking. No question we can do a bit of doubt for the 2nd half of season.

But the fact was they did a line up change and finally gave Payton the starting to job indefinently.


When he played the Celtics and had 15 assists 9 rebounds and 12 points in a game where he drove by Smart and almost made the game winning layup. It is hard to argue that they were tanking or that the Celtics were not trying to win that game.

I mean the fact that it took him this long to win the starting job for a trash magic team over DJ ****ing Augustin is far from encouraging.

Second, he didnt play **** for defense, youve admitted that.

third, I dont care that he was able to rack up a lot of rebounds down the stretch for a ****ty team. That is exactly the kind of stat I really dont care about. I dont even care about Avery Bradley's 7 rebounds a game he put up first half of this season and I certainly dont care that Elfrid Payton matched those numbers down the stretch for a trash magic team.

His a/to ratio was impressive and the positive progression on fg% and ft% is good. He is obviously talented. He has the athletic ability to create things on offense that Smart never will have.

Payton is more talented. Marcus helps basketball teams win more games.

also, this whole discussion is kinda moot because Payton wasnt ever in discussion for the #6 pick, that would have been a huge reach at the time and Ive been on this blog long enough to know that you arent about to budge on Elfrid Payton. Please dont accuse Celtics fans of being biased towards Marcus tho, because you like Payton more than most people here like the ****ing Celtics.

lol I cannot argue with you with this post. You are correct. Do I like Payton like you said I do......probably in a sense of basketball, since I watch/play/played/coach a lot and dealing with kids that play today who are talented but just do not have it in the mind to be a good team basketball player, I really love how a young kid like Elfrid is more concerned with getting the ball to his teammates and when without the flash, without the dumb flashy passes. Just simple basketball plays to get his teammates the ball where they score easily. I freaking love that about him because young ballers usually think that if they score they justified in what they are doing. I like old school point guards who get teammates involved and more engaged. Its why Rondo is so important to a team like the Bulls.

The same can be said for Smart too, I like players like Smart too, because they do all the things needed to be done to win. Other players are concverned about scoring , they think that is the end all be all. Smart is about winning.

So in essence I like players that do things that help the team , help everybody feel involved.


When I talk about players it is strictly about talent level, skill level, because I like evaluating talent.

I have already mentioned how I love Smarts play, when I talk about Smart's failure, its about his lack of skill , in reality I am not blaming Smart for being a lazy loser, I just think that he doesn't have it in his current make up.....who knows, if he loses weight he might be that drive and finish guy, or maybe if he sadly gives up a bit of defensive effort so he can become a better offensive player, maybe that makes him more dangerous.

[chambers]

The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Well actually Rondo has been excellent from deep as he's matured and his injury took some of his freakish athleticism. He shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.

[Eja117]

The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.

But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

[celtics2030]

Smart backers waiting for Smart to get a big rebound or a drawn offensive charge to declare him future all start


Not one peep about Smart 1st half looking invisible

meanwhile Olynyk getting ripped apart.

[celtics2030]

The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.

But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.

[Eja117]

Smart backers waiting for Smart to get a big rebound or a drawn offensive charge to declare him future all start


Not one peep about Smart 1st half looking invisible

meanwhile Olynyk getting ripped apart.

At the end of the half I think when he was under the hoop alone against 4 Bulls trying to get a rebound I absolutely admired him. I am not saying he's worthless or that he doesn't have great moments or that he is a lost cause. I am saying he hasn't met expectations (fair expectations), that he is a liability on offense, that there are other players not picked in the top 3 in his draft class that are better than him, and that his progress has been slow. He has progressed but it's like two steps forward, one back.

[Eja117]

The beauty of Marcus is that he is only going to get better at pretty much every thing.

 In his 3rd year in the league he'd be a serious consideration for the All NBA defensive team. That's an amazing accomplishment.

He's going to get better at shooting because he's willing to put the work in. Similarly to AB.

He will certainly improve his shooting with experience, time will tell if he becomes an average shooter or a good shooter.

I don't mean to be a downer and i actually like players like Smart but he MAY get better  and not he IS ONLY GOING TO get better

The same was said numerous times about Rondo and his shooting and it never actually happened.

Rondo has shot 36.5%+ from 3 last season on 2 attempts a game and 37.5% this year on 2 attempts a game. That's after never shooting better than 28.5% from 3 in the previous 9 seasons in the NBA.

When someone is willing to work as hard as Smart is, you are going to improve. Now he may not become a 35% 3 pt shooter or improve his FG% to 45%+, but he will improve over his current horrid numbers.

But his fg% and 3pt % is worse than his rookie year. His ft% went from bad to good but a guy who shoots like Marcus shouldn't really be shooting the ball in the first place.

Wishful thinking. Don't tell them Randle can't improve lol , he's done for lol.

Kelly is having an exceptionally efficient game tonight, but instead of being some tough dude with tatts and a scowl who should be shooting underhand he's a goofy looking short armed white dude from Canada with a man bun on a good day. So people go "Oooohhh aaahhh Marccccuusss."  It's like reverse racism.

[celtics2030]

Crazy thing is

we need smart right now bad vs Cannan

IT is in trouble