Author Topic: Ainge grilled on Rich and Toucher - no blame on himself/Stevens. But players..  (Read 4074 times)

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Offline triboy16f

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1)danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade

 http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade


2)danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game

http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game

Offline Rida

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1)danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade

 http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade


2)danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game

http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game

I don't think its fair to say that he put the blame on the players. He said no one has stepped up in the playoffs which is 100% true. Remember in 2010 when Nate Robinson and Big Baby stepped up in the finals, or in 2008 when Leon Powe, Posey and Eddie House had big games, we haven't seen anything like that this season from any role players or starters yet.

Whereas we have seen Lopez, Rondo, Zipster and Portis elevate their games in this matchup so I don't take offense to anything he said about the players.

Where I do take the opposite side of Ainge is where he defends his record at the trade deadline. You can't tell me that Gibson or Noel couldn't have been had for the Celtics 2018 first rounder, that deal was there for sure and was squandered.

Playing devils advocate though, Noel and Gibson are both free agents, so trading for them takes you out the running for Hayward on July 1st. Thinking about it logically for the long term if you know you can't beat the Cavs this year he did do the right thing.

Just because those deals help you win a series this year doesn't mean they are the right decisions in the long term.

One thing that sucks though is that if/when the Bulls beat the Celtics, Jimmy Butler will be off the market at the draft, the Bulls will feel like they beat the one seed and will continue to build with a core of Rondo, Wade and Butler. Thats a big time loss if we drop out of the 1 or 2 spot and will look to trade the pick if its number 3 or 4 which I feel is Ainge's plan.

Offline SparzWizard

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Yes, BIG blame on himself. Again, could've given up scratch for Ibaka and/or maybe Cousins. Instantly solves our rebounding woes and added scoring.

I'm about to blame Stevens for blowing Games 1 and 2 too for poor adjustments, not firing up his team, lack of standards etc.

And of course, all the players NEED TO STEP UP. Everyone not named Wyc Grousbeck is damaging the Celtics' playoff run right now!!

Offline wdleehi

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Do we really want him telling the players that "oops, our players are not good enough and we should have added someone" in the middle of a playoff series where they are down?


That's something for him to work on and discuss after the season. 

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Offline MBunge

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Yes, BIG blame on himself. Again, could've given up scratch for Ibaka and/or maybe Cousins. Instantly solves our rebounding woes and added scoring.

I'm about to blame Stevens for blowing Games 1 and 2 too for poor adjustments, not firing up his team, lack of standards etc.

And of course, all the players NEED TO STEP UP. Everyone not named Wyc Grousbeck is damaging the Celtics' playoff run right now!!

Ainge doesn't deserve criticism for not getting anyone like Ibaka or Noel.  Those guys aren't winning us a title, will only complicate salary cap issues and would mean giving up draft picks and the cost-controlled rookie deals that will be like gold for teams being forced to overpay their veterans.

Passing on Cousins is something else.  If this team loses in the first round and we don't add a 1st tier free agent this offseason, Ainge will deserve every bit of venom directed his way.  Cousins is as talented as anyone else we could get and wasn't going to cost very much.  Turning  your nose up at him when and then getting your butts kicked in the first round is not acceptable.

Mike

Offline PhoSita

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Playing devils advocate though, Noel and Gibson are both free agents, so trading for them takes you out the running for Hayward on July 1st. Thinking about it logically for the long term if you know you can't beat the Cavs this year he did do the right thing.

Of course, getting smacked around by the Bulls in round one probably takes us out of the running, too.
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Offline tankcity!

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Playing devils advocate though, Noel and Gibson are both free agents, so trading for them takes you out the running for Hayward on July 1st. Thinking about it logically for the long term if you know you can't beat the Cavs this year he did do the right thing.

Of course, getting smacked around by the Bulls in round one probably takes us out of the running, too.

Could've said the same thing last year before Durant met with us and we signed Horford. In fact, I recall everyone was saying the same thing.

Disappointed in you Pho. I didn't think you would get emotional. The only GM's who ever make mistakes are the ones who get emotional in this league. For example, negotiating trades takes time. The only leverage a team like the Celtics has in these talks is time. You really think Hayward won't sign here when he sees us draft a Brooklyn pick? And then we could flip Crowder for something....

Offline eja117

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To me a big part of the question is "Ok. No player has elevated their game. Not enough to get out of round one. What will you do about it? Do you plan to keep around a lot of players that didn't elevate their game in the playoffs? Do you plan to keep around a coach that can't get a single player to elevate their games in the playoffs? I agree with you not a single player has elevated their game. Now what do you plan to do about that?"

Offline triboy16f

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To me a big part of the question is "Ok. No player has elevated their game. Not enough to get out of round one. What will you do about it? Do you plan to keep around a lot of players that didn't elevate their game in the playoffs? Do you plan to keep around a coach that can't get a single player to elevate their games in the playoffs? I agree with you not a single player has elevated their game. Now what do you plan to do about that?"

Good questions

Offline PhoSita

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Could've said the same thing last year before Durant met with us and we signed Horford. In fact, I recall everyone was saying the same thing.

Disappointed in you Pho. I didn't think you would get emotional. The only GM's who ever make mistakes are the ones who get emotional in this league. For example, negotiating trades takes time. The only leverage a team like the Celtics has in these talks is time. You really think Hayward won't sign here when he sees us draft a Brooklyn pick? And then we could flip Crowder for something....


I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season.   I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.

You're right that the best GMs do not make emotional decisions (there is a reason I am a fan and not a GM ... OK, there are MANY reasons why that is the case).

I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year.  I didn't expect it.  At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.  Utah won't be making the same mistake with Hayward.

With all of that said, I don't think the comparison to last year is apt here.  Last year, the Celts played an opponent that had more experience and arguably more talent, home court advantage, and that won the same number of games in the regular season.  They were generally overmatched in that series but managed to push it to 6 games despite losing Avery Bradley early in the series.

This year, the Celts are the #1 seed playing a first round series against an opponent with a deeply flawed roster that won 12 fewer games than they did in the regular season.  They are getting their butts kicked so far.


I don't think that FAs necessarily make decisions based on what just happened in the playoffs ... not entirely, anyway.  But I think it will definitely play a role.

If Danny had the chance to add a player like Noel, Mason Plumlee, Nurkic, or even Tucker at the halfway point for the price of, say, Jerebko or Rozier and a lesser pick, I think there was probably a strong argument to be made that he should have done it.

Back then, I felt that this team could win a playoff series and push a second round opponent to the brink whether or not they made a move.  That now appears to have been a deeply mistaken impression of how good this team is.


If Hayward is coming off a first round loss with the Jazz, wherein they pushed the Clippers to 6 or 7 games despite losing Rudy Gobert at the very beginning of Game 1, how would you expect him to feel about the Celts, by comparison, if they get smoked by the Bulls in 4 or 5 games (which is where this appears to be headed)?

Not to mention that the cap situation is going to make getting Hayward pretty difficult regardless.  Though on the other hand, at this point I really wouldn't mind jettisoning all of our FAs and trading Avery Bradley or Jae Crowder for cap space and a pick or something like that.
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Offline Future Celtics Owner

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I acknowledge for the past 2 years ( and probably longer)I have been in the minority of CB for the process/direction I'd like to see DA take this team. DA has been out-drafted and outperformed as a GM the last couple years and it really became noticeable right after the trade deadline in 2015. Most, not everything, since then has been sub-par and at times even negligent.


-Keeping Bass, Jonas, Gigi after the trade deadline cost us the 9th-11th pick in the 2015 draft. We were 3 wins away from the 10th/11th pick. I know he was trying to trade ET and the rest of the players I listed but after the deadline he should have waived all of them and let the younger guys develop. He underestimated how bad other teams were going to tank and just how crappy the EAST was that year.
-Remember the treasure of picks he offered for his fetish Justise Winslow....That was literally 1 hair away from Jordans "stache" to being accepted....and had Ainge done the responsible thing and waived Bass, Jonas, and Gigi THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUR PICK!
-He loves using players that have no future with our team, and eventually walk for nothing, to: USURP all the minutes, take development time away from younger players, and worst of all inflate our record.
-Besides Brown and Zizic he drafted horribly in 2016. He had plenty of time to consolidate the picks but even then he made horrible moves and selections with all but 2 of our picks.


Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Lots of blame to go around...but it all comes down to LOUSY Drafting by Danny Ainge.
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Offline BE-Celtic

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Now that I take a step back, I'm thinkng this :

Right now we are in the emotion of the series that is going wrong. But who thought we were actual contenders this year ?

And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough? The banner counts and that's all.

Maybe there were a few cheap centers to find this year but if he thinks he can get better this summer and/or he believes in his young players (Zizic / Yabusele ), why rush it ?

I don't mean Ainge is perfect but seriously, I believe in him and I firmly believes he has a vision. A long term one not just a "1 or 2 years contenters at max" deal. Because he knows the C's are more than that.

I really want to give him credit, hoping this summer will finally bring big moves for us, unlike the 2 previous years when it was always the "don't move for now" story.

Of course it's a shame that our players might not get a lot of play-off experience but at least ,we start to see who is shaped for play-off, and who can let us some cap space this summer...

Offline kozlodoev

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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.

Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.

This series is neither of the two so far, so...
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Offline BE-Celtic

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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.

Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.

This series is neither of the two so far, so...

Yes of course pride takes a hit. But again, I think we're letting the emotions talk and we're not taking a step back to look the bigger picture. It's my point. But I won't say seing the Bulls give us a lesson doens't pain me A LOT.

If it makes the future better (for reason Ainge knows and we don't, because we see all this from a spectator seat), then so be it.

 

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