Author Topic: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health  (Read 2195 times)

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Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2017, 08:03:01 AM »

Offline LGC88

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Between game 1 and game 2, someone (Horford, Bradley, Stevens, Ainge, ANYBODY!!!!) has to gather everyone (let IT aside) and speak your mind and what needs to be done for IT's sake.
Someone has to remind what IT has done for them the entire season and that now IT needs YOU OFF and ON the court.
Remember how IT gave it all vs Hawks last playoff and how drained he felt at the end during the interview. Remember how he worked hard the summer and become a WAY better player. Remember how he makes everybody else better and shoot well during the season.
Remember all this and tell me how is it possible to go down that way in game 2.

NOBODY ????

Like I said, if they put up a big fight and they still lose, I'm ok with that.
What I'm not ok is poor fight.

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2017, 08:29:49 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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IT has every reason not to play right now.

His teammates and coaches do not.

When one of your coworkers has a personal tragedy, you'd be a real jerk to expect him or her to still work the same. You'd be a monster to give them crap about taking time off.

But you would still need to do your job.

In fact, you would be expected to step up to pick up the slack for your bereaved friend and coworker, thereby allowing your employer and your coworker to breathe easier during a difficult time.

It's not an excuse for the whole team. These guys are professionals.

That's not to say it's an easy thing to ask of them. It is not. But winning in the playoffs, as I said in another thread, always means overcoming some kind of adversity, whether mental or physical, on court or off court.

The Celts need to figure out how to respond to adversity, or they will be run off the court in an embarrassing loss. If that happens, the makeup of the team needs to change.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 08:47:09 AM by PhoSita »
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Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2017, 08:43:42 AM »

Offline BE-Celtic

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The thing is, IT played through his injury, and in Game 1 played really well. He 100% gets a pass here, no matter what happens, but I think it's tough to hang the losses on his mental state.

If the rest of the team is showing worse emotional trauma than IT, is it fair to question their ability to focus and overcome adversity? You would think the team would play harder as a means of honoring IT and his sister, wouldn't you?

I think it is a little more complicated than this. Let's throw out a hypothetical example. Bradley is very close to Thomas. Perhaps he even met the sister st one point. Perhaps  Bradley has had a a reaction where stress really throws off his ability to sleep. It is just his body's reaction to it (this is a problem I have had myself with trauma). I don't think we would say Bradley is less of a professional or weak for having this reaction even if it impacts his play. I just think it is really complicated and overall just sucks. I obviously hate to see if the season goes out with a whimper, but it is also hard for me to have the same frustration I have had other years.

If he can't sleep because of stress, he is not less professional or weak indeed, but he may not be made for playoff

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2017, 10:09:42 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Do I get excused from being an effective attorney because one of my co-workers is hurting? If I couldn't perform, I think many people would rightfully question whether I was too emotional to handle a high-pressure job.

IT has an excuse. Nobody else does. Part of their job description is blocking out emotions, at least to the extent reasonable. If you empathize with your teammate, follow his example and perform.


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Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2017, 10:28:32 AM »

Offline BE-Celtic

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IT has every reason not to play right now.

His teammates and coaches do not.

When one of your coworkers has a personal tragedy, you'd be a real jerk to expect him or her to still work the same. You'd be a monster to give them crap about taking time off.

But you would still need to do your job.

In fact, you would be expected to step up to pick up the slack for your bereaved friend and coworker, thereby allowing your employer and your coworker to breathe easier during a difficult time.

It's not an excuse for the whole team. These guys are professionals.

That's not to say it's an easy thing to ask of them. It is not. But winning in the playoffs, as I said in another thread, always means overcoming some kind of adversity, whether mental or physical, on court or off court.

The Celts need to figure out how to respond to adversity, or they will be run off the court in an embarrassing loss. If that happens, the makeup of the team needs to change.

Excatly my position. TP.

Also, I disapointed by Horford not stepping up as a leader. I really love him, but he disapointed me on this one.

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2017, 10:37:58 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Just adding to this. About 10 years ago I had a really bad tragedy in my life that was on par with what IT has gone through. It not only really screwed me up but everyone around me that didn't know how to act respond. Having gone through that experience I honestly think there is a very reasonable chance that this is playing A major role in the Celtics not being ready to play Celtics basketball. I know a lot of people just want a pound of flesh here and to say certain players are awful but it, and life, are a lot more complicated than that. It kind of makes it hard to read the forum right now although I do understand other's viewpoints on it.
Before game two, I forget who maybe Scal was talking about how the locker room had still been very quiet between game one and two. With IT in the locker room grieving the other players can't prepare their normal way because of your brother is grieving you are gonna feel like pretty bad if you are 10 feet away just messing around with your buddies. With how close you are with teammates when one guy is that emotionally low it is incredibly naive to think the other guys aren't affected, IT is able to use the game as his escape, hyper focus and avoid real life for a bit but for everyone else their pregame preparation is off which makes a huge difference in the playoffs.
Going off this, I can recall a friend in college telling me about a terrible thing that happened to her in her past and when I said I was sorry that happened to you, she responded that she had basically gotten over it and now felt bad talking about it because of how uncomfortable it seemed to make other people feel because there's just no good way to respond to real trauma/tragedy.

I think this is what we're seeing. The team isn't preparing the way they should be because they are all thinking about Isaiah and what he's going through and wrestling with what the right way is to handle the situation. Isaiah is going through something real but we can't discount how that affects the teammates around him who care about him and want to help. But then there really isn't any way to make this better so what do you do?

The irony is, if the teammates didn't care about Thomas, they would be able to just go about their business and probably play better.

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2017, 11:21:12 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Just adding to this. About 10 years ago I had a really bad tragedy in my life that was on par with what IT has gone through. It not only really screwed me up but everyone around me that didn't know how to act respond. Having gone through that experience I honestly think there is a very reasonable chance that this is playing A major role in the Celtics not being ready to play Celtics basketball. I know a lot of people just want a pound of flesh here and to say certain players are awful but it, and life, are a lot more complicated than that. It kind of makes it hard to read the forum right now although I do understand other's viewpoints on it.
Before game two, I forget who maybe Scal was talking about how the locker room had still been very quiet between game one and two. With IT in the locker room grieving the other players can't prepare their normal way because of your brother is grieving you are gonna feel like pretty bad if you are 10 feet away just messing around with your buddies. With how close you are with teammates when one guy is that emotionally low it is incredibly naive to think the other guys aren't affected, IT is able to use the game as his escape, hyper focus and avoid real life for a bit but for everyone else their pregame preparation is off which makes a huge difference in the playoffs.
Going off this, I can recall a friend in college telling me about a terrible thing that happened to her in her past and when I said I was sorry that happened to you, she responded that she had basically gotten over it and now felt bad talking about it because of how uncomfortable it seemed to make other people feel because there's just no good way to respond to real trauma/tragedy.

I think this is what we're seeing. The team isn't preparing the way they should be because they are all thinking about Isaiah and what he's going through and wrestling with what the right way is to handle the situation. Isaiah is going through something real but we can't discount how that affects the teammates around him who care about him and want to help. But then there really isn't any way to make this better so what do you do?

The irony is, if the teammates didn't care about Thomas, they would be able to just go about their business and probably play better.

You actually get it. Those who think they should just suck it up should ask themselves whether they would say the same if the teamwas afflicted with real physical trauma that disabled all members including coaches.

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2017, 11:23:51 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Do I get excused from being an effective attorney because one of my co-workers is hurting? If I couldn't perform, I think many people would rightfully question whether I was too emotional to handle a high-pressure job.

IT has an excuse. Nobody else does. Part of their job description is blocking out emotions, at least to the extent reasonable. If you empathize with your teammate, follow his example and perform.

Indeed.

I think this whole discussion is being offered up as an alibi for the inadequacies of this group on the floor.

Thomas gets a pass. The emotional health nonsense is an excuse, rather than an explanation, for bad basketball.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2017, 11:33:04 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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You call it nonsense because you choose to deny the mental aspect of life. I remember all star players that got thrown off a whole playoff series because of girlfriend issues, that is emotional trauma. The best player in game got thrown off because of rumors his team mate dated his mother, that is emotional trauma, but you think this is nonsense?

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 11:35:06 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Just adding to this. About 10 years ago I had a really bad tragedy in my life that was on par with what IT has gone through. It not only really screwed me up but everyone around me that didn't know how to act respond. Having gone through that experience I honestly think there is a very reasonable chance that this is playing A major role in the Celtics not being ready to play Celtics basketball. I know a lot of people just want a pound of flesh here and to say certain players are awful but it, and life, are a lot more complicated than that. It kind of makes it hard to read the forum right now although I do understand other's viewpoints on it.
Before game two, I forget who maybe Scal was talking about how the locker room had still been very quiet between game one and two. With IT in the locker room grieving the other players can't prepare their normal way because of your brother is grieving you are gonna feel like pretty bad if you are 10 feet away just messing around with your buddies. With how close you are with teammates when one guy is that emotionally low it is incredibly naive to think the other guys aren't affected, IT is able to use the game as his escape, hyper focus and avoid real life for a bit but for everyone else their pregame preparation is off which makes a huge difference in the playoffs.
Going off this, I can recall a friend in college telling me about a terrible thing that happened to her in her past and when I said I was sorry that happened to you, she responded that she had basically gotten over it and now felt bad talking about it because of how uncomfortable it seemed to make other people feel because there's just no good way to respond to real trauma/tragedy.

I think this is what we're seeing. The team isn't preparing the way they should be because they are all thinking about Isaiah and what he's going through and wrestling with what the right way is to handle the situation. Isaiah is going through something real but we can't discount how that affects the teammates around him who care about him and want to help. But then there really isn't any way to make this better so what do you do?

The irony is, if the teammates didn't care about Thomas, they would be able to just go about their business and probably play better.

You actually get it. Those who think they should just suck it up should ask themselves whether they would say the same if the teamwas afflicted with real physical trauma that disabled all members including coaches.

If NBA players are so emotionally fragile that their empathy for a teammate is akin to a disabling physical injury, they should find new occupations, or at least jobs on teams that won't be playing meaningful games.

There are plenty of jobs where empaths are highly valued and successful. A key skill of being an NBA basketball player, however, is to perform under emotional pressure.



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Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2017, 11:40:01 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Just adding to this. About 10 years ago I had a really bad tragedy in my life that was on par with what IT has gone through. It not only really screwed me up but everyone around me that didn't know how to act respond. Having gone through that experience I honestly think there is a very reasonable chance that this is playing A major role in the Celtics not being ready to play Celtics basketball. I know a lot of people just want a pound of flesh here and to say certain players are awful but it, and life, are a lot more complicated than that. It kind of makes it hard to read the forum right now although I do understand other's viewpoints on it.
Before game two, I forget who maybe Scal was talking about how the locker room had still been very quiet between game one and two. With IT in the locker room grieving the other players can't prepare their normal way because of your brother is grieving you are gonna feel like pretty bad if you are 10 feet away just messing around with your buddies. With how close you are with teammates when one guy is that emotionally low it is incredibly naive to think the other guys aren't affected, IT is able to use the game as his escape, hyper focus and avoid real life for a bit but for everyone else their pregame preparation is off which makes a huge difference in the playoffs.
Going off this, I can recall a friend in college telling me about a terrible thing that happened to her in her past and when I said I was sorry that happened to you, she responded that she had basically gotten over it and now felt bad talking about it because of how uncomfortable it seemed to make other people feel because there's just no good way to respond to real trauma/tragedy.

I think this is what we're seeing. The team isn't preparing the way they should be because they are all thinking about Isaiah and what he's going through and wrestling with what the right way is to handle the situation. Isaiah is going through something real but we can't discount how that affects the teammates around him who care about him and want to help. But then there really isn't any way to make this better so what do you do?

The irony is, if the teammates didn't care about Thomas, they would be able to just go about their business and probably play better.

You actually get it. Those who think they should just suck it up should ask themselves whether they would say the same if the teamwas afflicted with real physical trauma that disabled all members including coaches.

If NBA players are so emotionally fragile that their empathy for a teammate is akin to a disabling physical injury, they should find new occupations, or at least jobs on teams that won't be playing meaningful games.

There are plenty of jobs where empaths are highly valued and successful. A key skill of being an NBA basketball player, however, is to perform under emotional pressure.

Exactly. TP.

Trying to alibi away poor performance by this club on Thomas' tragedy is a blatant example of a straw man, an attempt to deny the reality that we are a reliable second scorer and a rebounder/rim protecter away from actually being good, and immune to being exposed as we have been by the Bulls.

Were there any truth to this silliness, which there isn't a shred, all the exercise would prove is who should be eliminated - immediately - from this roster as too weak to aid in building a champion.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2017, 11:50:54 AM »

Offline LilRip

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You call it nonsense because you choose to deny the mental aspect of life. I remember all star players that got thrown off a whole playoff series because of girlfriend issues, that is emotional trauma. The best player in game got thrown off because of rumors his team mate dated his mother, that is emotional trauma, but you think this is nonsense?

I don't think anyone would question it if IT didn't feel fit enough to play. I actually think IT could still play better, which just goes to show how good he is. But his teammates have to step up. Not IT. His teammates.

To use your example, I can't imagine a team that would be playing with lackluster effort because their teammate broke up with his girlfriend.
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Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2017, 11:57:25 AM »

Offline mainevent

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There's only FOUR reasons why we're down 2-0:
1) We've been horribly outplayed.
2) We've been horribly outplayed.
3) We've been horribly outplayed.
4) We've been horribly outplayed.

End of story.
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Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2017, 12:06:00 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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This attitude pervades our entire system, how can you even address an issue when society does not believe there is one. Since there is no issue, everyone thinks they are experts. Has there even been an attempt to have a mental health professional intervene with the team, or is the therapy limited to 'suck it up' posts on the internet?

Re: there is still an under-appreciation of emotional health
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2017, 12:08:07 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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There's only FOUR reasons why we're down 2-0:
1) We've been horribly outplayed.
2) We've been horribly outplayed.
3) We've been horribly outplayed.
4) We've been horribly outplayed.

End of story.

Why?