Author Topic: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades  (Read 7554 times)

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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 03:35:55 PM »

Online jpotter33

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.


The question is -- what could we possibly get for Isaiah?

Surely he has some value.  He's an elite offensive player.

But on an expiring deal, who is going to give us a major haul for him?


Horford presents the opposite problem.  He's a savvy vet, a great character guy, and a solid all-around presence in any starting lineup.  But he's locked up for three more years at the max.  It's just not going to be easy to find a taker for that kind of contract, unless you're interested in trading for somebody even more flawed on a long deal, like Evan Turner or Enes Kanter.


Perhaps you could interest Utah in making a trade involving Derrick Favors.  Seems like Horford would be a much better fit next to Gobert.

I think we could get the Lakers pick for IT and some other assets if they keep it. They need to make themselves as attractive as possible for George next summer, and something like IT would go a long way toward that end. IT would also want to stay there long-term.

IT alone probably won't get the pick, but a package built around him could probably do the trick. Perhaps something like IT and Al for their pick, Zubac, and Deng could get a deal done, though I'm not sure if that'd give them the space they need for George next summer or not.

Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 03:36:58 PM »

Offline RJ87

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.

Lol.

Al might be untradeable.

1.) After building a rep of not being a max free agent destination for so many years, how will it look if we trade the guy who actually signed with us after 1 year?

2.) What team is taking on that financial responsibility right now? Yes, we signed him for what the market dictated last summer, but his production just hasn't lived up to max expectations. At age 30, that may not trend upward. I just don't know if his leadership, intangibles, and locker room presence is worth a max slot to other teams around the league.

I'm pretty sure both Washington and Houston would still love to have Al this summer.

It wouldn't shock me at this point if fireworks = Al to Washington for Ian Mahinmi and Jason Smith.

Houston can't match the contract, though, without giving up key guys.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 03:37:03 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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For the sake of the thread, I'm going back to my old favorite:

Isaiah Thomas and Al Horford for Kristaps Porzingis and the corpse of Joakim Noah.

Convince New York that Porzingis wants out and that they can compete for a few years with Melo, IT, Horford, and whoever else they can bring on board with the money they save on dumping Noah.

Next year, roll out Fultz, Bradley, Brown, Crowder, and Porzingis with Smart, Nader, Olynyk, and Zizic in the main rotation. That team takes a step back due to their youth but probably still makes the playoffs and they have 3 building blocks with real superstar potential.

But this is all just me lashing out because I feel embarrassed for the effort the C's put forth the last two games. I'll feel better when they beat the Bulls in 6.


That's an interesting one.

Noah is the worst contract in the league, but Porzingis is a legitimate perennial All-Star talent at the start of his career.

New York with Isaiah, Melo, Horford ... man their defense would be a trainwreck!

But I could see Phil thinking that was a good idea.


Perhaps he'd try swapping Melo for whatever pieces he could get from the Clips, or the Heat.


It's worth a try.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2017, 03:38:21 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Keep Smart and Brown.
Keep both Brooklyn picks.

Everyone and everything else can go.

Who would want Isaiah, Bradley, Crowder, Horford?

It'd put us in the position of the Lakers and Sixers, but we'd have more ammunition than they do to reload a reboot. Brown, Smart, this year's Brooklyn, next year's Brooklyn, but also our own pick next year begins to look like a quality lotto pick, PLUS whatever combination of 1sts and prospects the combination of Isaiah-Bradley-Crowder-Horford could bring back, plus Zizic, Yabusele, Rozier, Jackson, plus the Clippers and Memphis picks. Even if we cashed in all our win-now talent and kept only our win-later assets, we would still have a tanking headstart on the teams who've been tanking brutally for several years.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2017, 03:40:36 PM »

Online jpotter33

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.

Lol.

Al might be untradeable.

1.) After building a rep of not being a max free agent destination for so many years, how will it look if we trade the guy who actually signed with us after 1 year?

2.) What team is taking on that financial responsibility right now? Yes, we signed him for what the market dictated last summer, but his production just hasn't lived up to max expectations. At age 30, that may not trend upward. I just don't know if his leadership, intangibles, and locker room presence is worth a max slot to other teams around the league.

I'm pretty sure both Washington and Houston would still love to have Al this summer.

Perhaps.

After watching the Celts this year, do you think Al could play next to Ryan Anderson?  Markieff Morris?

Doubtful.

So who are they trading us?  I don't see what those teams would be willing to trade that the Celts would want.  Not clear how they'd match salary, in any case.

Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.

Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2017, 03:42:52 PM »

Offline RJ87

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.


The question is -- what could we possibly get for Isaiah?

Surely he has some value.  He's an elite offensive player.

But on an expiring deal, who is going to give us a major haul for him?


Horford presents the opposite problem.  He's a savvy vet, a great character guy, and a solid all-around presence in any starting lineup.  But he's locked up for three more years at the max.  It's just not going to be easy to find a taker for that kind of contract, unless you're interested in trading for somebody even more flawed on a long deal, like Evan Turner or Enes Kanter.


Perhaps you could interest Utah in making a trade involving Derrick Favors.  Seems like Horford would be a much better fit next to Gobert.

I think we could get the Lakers pick for IT and some other assets if they keep it. They need to make themselves as attractive as possible for George next summer, and something like IT would go a long way toward that end. IT would also want to stay there long-term.

IT alone probably won't get the pick, but a package built around him could probably do the trick. Perhaps something like IT and Al for their pick, Zubac, and Deng could get a deal done, though I'm not sure if that'd give them the space they need for George next summer or not.

If I'm the Lakers, I'm keeping the top 3 pick. Do they even need IT to sell George? If you believe the stuff that leaked around the trade deadline about him being hellbent on going there, Magic and the allure of the Lakers may be enough to sell him. Russell, Randle, Ingram, whichever one of the Ball/Fultz/Jackson trio just might be enticing enough.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2017, 03:44:01 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.

Lol.

Al might be untradeable.

1.) After building a rep of not being a max free agent destination for so many years, how will it look if we trade the guy who actually signed with us after 1 year?

2.) What team is taking on that financial responsibility right now? Yes, we signed him for what the market dictated last summer, but his production just hasn't lived up to max expectations. At age 30, that may not trend upward. I just don't know if his leadership, intangibles, and locker room presence is worth a max slot to other teams around the league.

I'm pretty sure both Washington and Houston would still love to have Al this summer.

Perhaps.

After watching the Celts this year, do you think Al could play next to Ryan Anderson?  Markieff Morris?

Doubtful.

So who are they trading us?  I don't see what those teams would be willing to trade that the Celts would want.  Not clear how they'd match salary, in any case.

Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.


If I'm Washington, no way am I trading Porter for Horford.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 03:45:35 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Perhaps.

After watching the Celts this year, do you think Al could play next to Ryan Anderson?  Markieff Morris?

Doubtful.

So who are they trading us?  I don't see what those teams would be willing to trade that the Celts would want.  Not clear how they'd match salary, in any case.

Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.


If I'm Washington, no way am I trading Porter for Horford.

And if I'm Houston, no way am I trading Capela for Horford.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 03:49:54 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.

Lol.

Al might be untradeable.

1.) After building a rep of not being a max free agent destination for so many years, how will it look if we trade the guy who actually signed with us after 1 year?

2.) What team is taking on that financial responsibility right now? Yes, we signed him for what the market dictated last summer, but his production just hasn't lived up to max expectations. At age 30, that may not trend upward. I just don't know if his leadership, intangibles, and locker room presence is worth a max slot to other teams around the league.
1 was something that had been a hangup for me in the past, but if you lose to an 8 seed in historically awful fashion, all that goes out the window.

No free agent can blame Boston for moving on after that.

2. I dont think you could get a ton of value for Al but some other teams would certainly take him on.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 03:50:19 PM »

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Perhaps.

After watching the Celts this year, do you think Al could play next to Ryan Anderson?  Markieff Morris?

Doubtful.

So who are they trading us?  I don't see what those teams would be willing to trade that the Celts would want.  Not clear how they'd match salary, in any case.

Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.


If I'm Washington, no way am I trading Porter for Horford.

And if I'm Houston, no way am I trading Capela for Horford.
Porter is a free agent so there is literally no way.
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2017, 03:55:07 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.


If I'm Washington, no way am I trading Porter for Horford.

And if I'm Houston, no way am I trading Capela for Horford.
Porter is a free agent so there is literally no way.

Sign and trade. But if Washington is going to pony up, why not just invest in Porter? Right now, Porter is the better, younger option: http://bkref.com/tiny/hmOcA
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2017, 03:57:18 PM »

Online jpotter33

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.

Lol.

Al might be untradeable.

1.) After building a rep of not being a max free agent destination for so many years, how will it look if we trade the guy who actually signed with us after 1 year?

2.) What team is taking on that financial responsibility right now? Yes, we signed him for what the market dictated last summer, but his production just hasn't lived up to max expectations. At age 30, that may not trend upward. I just don't know if his leadership, intangibles, and locker room presence is worth a max slot to other teams around the league.

I'm pretty sure both Washington and Houston would still love to have Al this summer.

Perhaps.

After watching the Celts this year, do you think Al could play next to Ryan Anderson?  Markieff Morris?

Doubtful.

So who are they trading us?  I don't see what those teams would be willing to trade that the Celts would want.  Not clear how they'd match salary, in any case.

Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.


If I'm Washington, no way am I trading Porter for Horford.

So you're saying you wouldn't trade Porter for Al and Jae? That seems like a homerun deal for Washington.

Jae can do 90% of what Porter does, and he'll be under contract for 1/3 of the price of Porter after this year. Gortat is only going to get worse, and Horford is still a major step up over him. That'd have a ridiculously dynamic offense, while probably getting better on defense, too.

I'd think that they'd be the favorites in the East after that trade, and the lesser offensive roles for Crowder and Horford would be perfect for them.

Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2017, 04:05:20 PM »

Online Moranis

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There is no point in selling off players if you are going to keep Thomas and Horford.

And there is no way you are getting 12 for Crowder let alone adding Ellenson and Johnson. Crowder is a bench player.  Those guys just don't have much value.

I don't think this is true, but I'm willing to admit Crowder might not fetch quite that much value.

Crowder is an average starter at a position that is fairly weak league-wide.  He's also locked into something like 30-40% of his open-market value for another 3 years after this season.

He's definitely got more value than a bench player.


As for Thomas / Horford, ideally if you're going youth movement you would trade away those guys for major assets, but realistically nobody is giving you the haul you want for Thomas, and nobody is trading you major pieces for Horford.


Moranis -- would you trade Horford, Jackson, and Mickey for Kanter, Singler, and McDermott?


I feel like OKC might consider that.  Horford and Adams could be a solid frontcourt.
Jeff Teague was traded for the 12th pick in a much weaker draft and Jeff Teague is better than Jae Crowder.  Now Teague had 1 year left whereas Crowder has 3, but there isn't that much value difference there. 

If Crowder is worth what you think, Boston wouldn't be down 0-2 as the 1 seed.  The simple reality is he is a role player best served coming off the bench as a 3 and D type player.  You don't get a lottery pick, a recent lottery pick, and a recent mid 1st for that type of player.

And no I wouldn't do that Horford trade.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 04:11:22 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2017, 04:10:04 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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if we lose in 4 or 5 games, Isaiah thomas and Al Horford simply must be on the trading block.

Lol.

Al might be untradeable.

1.) After building a rep of not being a max free agent destination for so many years, how will it look if we trade the guy who actually signed with us after 1 year?

2.) What team is taking on that financial responsibility right now? Yes, we signed him for what the market dictated last summer, but his production just hasn't lived up to max expectations. At age 30, that may not trend upward. I just don't know if his leadership, intangibles, and locker room presence is worth a max slot to other teams around the league.

I'm pretty sure both Washington and Houston would still love to have Al this summer.

Perhaps.

After watching the Celts this year, do you think Al could play next to Ryan Anderson?  Markieff Morris?

Doubtful.

So who are they trading us?  I don't see what those teams would be willing to trade that the Celts would want.  Not clear how they'd match salary, in any case.

Porter (and other assets) sign and trade for Al and Jae makes sense, depending upon how much you think of Porter's ceiling.

As for Houston, that's a bit tougher. It'd probably involve Capela, but I think they're sufficiently under the cap to make it work this summer with future draft picks.


If I'm Washington, no way am I trading Porter for Horford.
Maybe a team that would want to get rid of bad contracts and possibly start competing:
Lakers...if you are really high on Ingram
Deng
Mozgov
Ingram
4
Horford
Crowder

Both Deng and Mozgov signed four year deals, just like Horford. Since Horford is older idk if this even fits with their plans but if they get another top 3 pick and choose Tatum/Jackson it could free up Ingram in the case a team( the Celtics in this case) wants to take their 2 worst and longest contracts away and replace it with 1 great contract and another contract that is Horford...who is much better for them and will attract people over Deng and Mozgov


I'm not necessarily for this at all but this may be the type of trade we would have to make with Horford included in it.

Re: Catharsis: Brainstorming Summer Blow-up Trades
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2017, 04:15:01 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Bradley, Crowder, Thomas to the Lakers for the first overall pick. Draft Fultz and Ball. Giddy up!