Author Topic: Stevens isn't the answer  (Read 2556 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2017, 10:56:11 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9778
  • Tommy Points: 773
Huh?  Stevens problem is that his teams overachieve during the regular season.

You can't have it both ways though.


Overachieve in the regular season = Brad Stevens is a great coach!

Look overmatched in the playoffs = The players just aren't good enough!


Yeah, no.  Doesn't work like that.  Either he makes the team better than their talent or he doesn't.
False. During the regular season, a considerable number of fans felt that despite our success, our team was not build for the playoffs.

In fact, basketball reporters didn't think much of us coming into this series with the Bulls.

The problem is that intensity isn't going to be enough in the playoffs because everyone is intense in the playoffs. You can out-intense people in the regular season, but roster is the C's problem. It is also the reason why most C's fans didn't want us to try to commit much to single additional pieces when they didn't think we would get far in the playoffs regardless. As we hear all the time, we still need that primary star.

And don't let the #1 seed fool you. We are one of the all time worst #1 seeds by record.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2017, 10:58:30 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

  • Marcus Smart
  • Posts: 200
  • Tommy Points: 12
I think part of the problem with this system is

A) Stevens likes bigs that can shoot 3s

B) Stevens likes players that can play multiple positions.

As for A...this doesn't win you titles. It only opens the floor for others to get to the lane.

As for B...it doesn't allow you to have one player that can dominate one position. He ends up being good at several things but not great at one thing. Tweeners don't win you titles. Get some dominate players at their positions. Stop trying to ask players to play above their skillset.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2017, 11:00:31 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9778
  • Tommy Points: 773
Huh?  Stevens problem is that his teams overachieve during the regular season.

You can't have it both ways though.


Overachieve in the regular season = Brad Stevens is a great coach!

Look overmatched in the playoffs = The players just aren't good enough!


Yeah, no.  Doesn't work like that.  Either he makes the team better than their talent or he doesn't.

 Exactly!

Stevens made two really disingenuous statements about the roster the season. The most recent one was that the team is not as good as  it's record. That's a really weasel comment for two reasons one, if the team doesn't do well in the playoffs they weren't that good, so it's not on him, and two because they did so well in the regular season because  he was such a great coach.

 Second comment he made was when someone was questioning him about the lack of rebounding, which she has time and again said that it wasn't that important. And then the comment he made was that he plays with the roster that was given to him. That's a bunch of crap.

 I have no doubt that Ainge  purposely did not go after certain guys because Stevens didn't want them, because they weren't Proto typical for his system, for example Bigs  that could shoot and stretch the floor like little Kelly.
I agree with you that the rebounding comment wasn't a good one.

He was correct on the first point. Our roster and the effort we put in makes for regular season heroics. Most of this board has expressed a lot of skepticism about the ability of this roster to do much in playoffs. What percentage of people on here are even surprised by these outcomes? I had high hopes, but low expectations.

That being said, we can still get it together. It will be hard to go 4-1, but we could.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2017, 11:01:58 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4435
  • Tommy Points: 505
    • Yahoo h2h roster
We don't need a thread devoted to making excuses for Ainge.  He made the bed, and now everyone has to sleep in it. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2017, 11:03:37 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5070
  • Tommy Points: 748
Huh?  Stevens problem is that his teams overachieve during the regular season.

You can't have it both ways though.


Overachieve in the regular season = Brad Stevens is a great coach!

Look overmatched in the playoffs = The players just aren't good enough!


Yeah, no.  Doesn't work like that.  Either he makes the team better than their talent or he doesn't.

 Exactly!

Stevens made two really disingenuous statements about the roster the season. The most recent one was that the team is not as good as  it's record. That's a really weasel comment for two reasons one, if the team doesn't do well in the playoffs they weren't that good, so it's not on him, and two because they did so well in the regular season because  he was such a great coach.

 Second comment he made was when someone was questioning him about the lack of rebounding, which she has time and again said that it wasn't that important. And then the comment he made was that he plays with the roster that was given to him. That's a bunch of crap.

 I have no doubt that Ainge  purposely did not go after certain guys because Stevens didn't want them, because they weren't Proto typical for his system, for example Bigs  that could shoot and stretch the floor like little Kelly.

We reportedly had opportunities for Cousins, Ibaka, Vucevic and Nurkic - and I am pretty confident we would have had a good shot at Monroe as well if we really made a push for him, since the Bucks don't seem all thatt high on him. 

All of those guys would have helped us in this series, by a significant margin.  Cousins obviously would have been a major game changer, but even adding Ibaka or Vucevic (alongside Horford) would have completely changed the look of this series.

But everybody was so big on maintaining max cap space...now they have announced that the Salary cap is going to be $6m lower then initially predicted, so after all that probably will not be capable of signing a max free agent without giving up half of our team anyway.  So now all of those "cap flexibility" secessionists suddenly aren't looking so bright.

That's why I always say, when a great opportunity comes up, then you take it.  You don't pass it up for the sake of keeping your options open later down the track, because you never know what is going to happen later down the track - any opportunities you have been holding out for may disappear, and then you've given up good opportunities for nothing. 

The ONLY good things to come out of this past season are the Brooklyn pick, and the explosion of Isaiah Thomas.   

Even holding the #1 seed (which I hoped would help with recruiting) might prove a moot point, since a lot of guys will be hesitant to join a team that seems incapable of winning a playoff series, and we may not have the cap space anyway.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2017, 11:06:48 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4435
  • Tommy Points: 505
    • Yahoo h2h roster
Huh?  Stevens problem is that his teams overachieve during the regular season.

You can't have it both ways though.


Overachieve in the regular season = Brad Stevens is a great coach!

Look overmatched in the playoffs = The players just aren't good enough!


Yeah, no.  Doesn't work like that.  Either he makes the team better than their talent or he doesn't.

 Exactly!

Stevens made two really disingenuous statements about the roster the season. The most recent one was that the team is not as good as  it's record. That's a really weasel comment for two reasons one, if the team doesn't do well in the playoffs they weren't that good, so it's not on him, and two because they did so well in the regular season because  he was such a great coach.

 Second comment he made was when someone was questioning him about the lack of rebounding, which she has time and again said that it wasn't that important. And then the comment he made was that he plays with the roster that was given to him. That's a bunch of crap.

 I have no doubt that Ainge  purposely did not go after certain guys because Stevens didn't want them, because they weren't Proto typical for his system, for example Bigs  that could shoot and stretch the floor like little Kelly.

We reportedly had opportunities for Cousins, Ibaka, Vucevic and Nurkic - and I am pretty confident we would have had a good shot at Monroe as well if we really made a push for him, since the Bucks don't seem all thatt high on him. 

All of those guys would have helped us in this series, by a significant margin.  Cousins obviously would have been a major game changer, but even adding Ibaka or Vucevic (alongside Horford) would have completely changed the look of this series.

But everybody was so big on maintaining max cap space...now they have announced that the Salary cap is going to be $6m lower then initially predicted, so after all that probably will not be capable of signing a max free agent without giving up half of our team anyway.  So now all of those "cap flexibility" secessionists suddenly aren't looking so bright.

That's why I always say, when a great opportunity comes up, then you take it.  You don't pass it up for the sake of keeping your options open later down the track, because you never know what is going to happen later down the track - any opportunities you have been holding out for may disappear, and then you've given up good opportunities for nothing. 

The ONLY good things to come out of this past season are the Brooklyn pick, and the explosion of Isaiah Thomas.   

Even holding the #1 seed (which I hoped would help with recruiting) might prove a moot point, since a lot of guys will be hesitant to join a team that seems incapable of winning a playoff series, and we may not have the cap space anyway.

Agreed.  Moreover, how was that cap space going to be used? On Griffin? Zero chance, and probably wouldn't want to.  Hayward?  Cool, doesn't move the needle.  Fact of the matter is the team has been built on undersized, one-trick guards.  Complete absence of a frontcourt is this team's problem, and it's entirely Ainge's. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2017, 11:10:38 PM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3453
  • Tommy Points: 269
This has always been a roster problem and the fact that Ainge did nothing at the deadline to improve the team and correct some of the deficiencies in the team he put together is the real travesty.

It's very clear that Danny sees this team as a transition one, thus not getting them a support they need. Brad and that team could have proven him wrong but they just rolled over. Getting a #1 seed only to be swept by the #8 seed doesn't look very good on his resume.

I see this year as another evaluation year for Danny. With that said, he have no excuse not to build a contender next season. Even if he flamed out of top tier FA this upcoming off season, he should get and at least develop solid pieces for the future. Crowder have dramatically regressed and KO just couldn't pull it together.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2017, 11:23:22 PM »

Offline GRADYCOLNON

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 165
  • Tommy Points: 19
this whole thread is a joke.  Blaming Stevens and Ainge because our players are not playing with intelligence is stupid.  The blame is on the players.  It was not Stevens or Ainge that lost both of those games.  Stevens and Ainge didn't take off plays off; they didn't lose focus. No, it was the players that allowed the 8-seed Bulls to beat them into submission on both sides of the ball. 

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2017, 11:29:19 PM »

Offline Rosco917

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3197
  • Tommy Points: 223
This entire roster is fools gold, not at all built for the playoffs. They surrender size, and shooting at just about every position. Not to mention rebounding and toughness.

What has me most worried is, Brad and Danny don't seem to be learning from this teams short comings. I'm afraid they still feel finesse, small ball is the way to go. They need to realize talented size and length is the ticket.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2017, 11:30:01 PM »

Offline Clench123

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3055
  • Tommy Points: 251
Danny Ainge isn't the answer

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2017, 11:37:24 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Tommy Points: 183
This entire roster is fools gold, not at all built for the playoffs. They surrender size, and shooting at just about every position. Not to mention rebounding and toughness.

What has me most worried is, Brad and Danny don't seem to be learning from this teams short comings. I'm afraid they still feel finesse, small ball is the way to go. They need to realize talented size and length is the ticket.

It's that there is no advantage to trade off when we give up size.

Give up more size then until it gets you something else. Quickness, passing, scoring...something.

KO's size might be made up for with a more aggressive offense, quickness, and scrappiness.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2017, 11:40:02 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9778
  • Tommy Points: 773
Huh?  Stevens problem is that his teams overachieve during the regular season.

You can't have it both ways though.


Overachieve in the regular season = Brad Stevens is a great coach!

Look overmatched in the playoffs = The players just aren't good enough!


Yeah, no.  Doesn't work like that.  Either he makes the team better than their talent or he doesn't.

 Exactly!

Stevens made two really disingenuous statements about the roster the season. The most recent one was that the team is not as good as  it's record. That's a really weasel comment for two reasons one, if the team doesn't do well in the playoffs they weren't that good, so it's not on him, and two because they did so well in the regular season because  he was such a great coach.

 Second comment he made was when someone was questioning him about the lack of rebounding, which she has time and again said that it wasn't that important. And then the comment he made was that he plays with the roster that was given to him. That's a bunch of crap.

 I have no doubt that Ainge  purposely did not go after certain guys because Stevens didn't want them, because they weren't Proto typical for his system, for example Bigs  that could shoot and stretch the floor like little Kelly.

We reportedly had opportunities for Cousins, Ibaka, Vucevic and Nurkic - and I am pretty confident we would have had a good shot at Monroe as well if we really made a push for him, since the Bucks don't seem all thatt high on him. 
...
There is no reason to believe we had an opportunity for Nurkic.

Cousins clearly is a difference maker, both good and bad. But the long term roles of the other guys aren't as obvious, and I am interested in long term moves. First round, second round -- all the same to me in the end because this roster is so limited. I definitely wasn't looking for a one year rental that would decrease assets for ramping up for upcoming years. These first two games are the downside of that approach.

On the other hand, if draft picks don't fall in our favor and we don't snag an elite FA, we could see all our assets result in a team no better than this one.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2017, 11:41:29 PM »

Offline ManUp

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8151
  • Tommy Points: 241
  • Rondo doesn't believe in easy buckets...
These losses are only surprising to Celtics fans who drank the cool-aid. Stevens told us the team isn't as good as its record. The experts labeled us the worst number one seed ever. Over confident fans and players took it as disrespect, but look at where we are now. The Bulls are an underachieving, but they're playing to their potential right now.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2017, 11:54:22 PM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Tommy Points: 183
Huh?  Stevens problem is that his teams overachieve during the regular season.

You can't have it both ways though.


Overachieve in the regular season = Brad Stevens is a great coach!

Look overmatched in the playoffs = The players just aren't good enough!


Yeah, no.  Doesn't work like that.  Either he makes the team better than their talent or he doesn't.

 Exactly!

Stevens made two really disingenuous statements about the roster the season. The most recent one was that the team is not as good as  it's record. That's a really weasel comment for two reasons one, if the team doesn't do well in the playoffs they weren't that good, so it's not on him, and two because they did so well in the regular season because  he was such a great coach.

 Second comment he made was when someone was questioning him about the lack of rebounding, which she has time and again said that it wasn't that important. And then the comment he made was that he plays with the roster that was given to him. That's a bunch of crap.

 I have no doubt that Ainge  purposely did not go after certain guys because Stevens didn't want them, because they weren't Proto typical for his system, for example Bigs  that could shoot and stretch the floor like little Kelly.

We reportedly had opportunities for Cousins, Ibaka, Vucevic and Nurkic - and I am pretty confident we would have had a good shot at Monroe as well if we really made a push for him, since the Bucks don't seem all thatt high on him. 
...
There is no reason to believe we had an opportunity for Nurkic.

Cousins clearly is a difference maker, both good and bad. But the long term roles of the other guys aren't as obvious, and I am interested in long term moves. First round, second round -- all the same to me in the end because this roster is so limited. I definitely wasn't looking for a one year rental that would decrease assets for ramping up for upcoming years. These first two games are the downside of that approach.

On the other hand, if draft picks don't fall in our favor and we don't snag an elite FA, we could see all our assets result in a team no better than this one.

+1

People are talking like we just lost a close ECF series and are only 1 player away.

We're not going to win a title by giving up assets for the cast-offs from other teams. Cousins is the only one from that bunch with elite talent, and he is so crazy that no-one but the Pelicans wanted him.

Ibaka plays like he is 5 years older than he is. Nurkic is decent but will never be a star or an elite defender. Same with Vucevic. Greg Monroe? There's a reason the bucks aren't that enamored with him, even after devoting so much cap space to him.

Bad teams give away cap space and picks for mediocrity. See the Knicks and the Blazers for reference.

Re: Stevens isn't the answer
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2017, 12:24:28 AM »

Offline CoachBS#1

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 567
  • Tommy Points: 30
Stevens is a good coach and the celtics will win this series, GO CELTICS!!!!