Author Topic: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice  (Read 4888 times)

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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2017, 09:03:24 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Let's just remember Oscar finished in 3rd in 61-62 with 135 points behind Wilt who had 152 points and averaged 50/23.  Of course Wilt only finished in  2nd to the defensive master on the league's best team who had a whopping 297 points in the MVP voting despite having lesser stats than either Wilt or Oscar.  Defense matters in this award which is why Bill was the runaway choice for the award despite the eye popping stats from Oscar and Wilt.
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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2017, 10:07:41 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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thunder's record when WB gets a TD  is something like 35-8(sorry can't find the correct record.

Without him dominating like he does Thunder is nets of the west....

That's what happens when you hog the ball. The entire team's success is correlated to you having a decent game.

Also, I'd love to see that juxtaposed against opponents record...

Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2017, 10:17:12 AM »

Online Ogaju

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Let's just remember Oscar finished in 3rd in 61-62 with 135 points behind Wilt who had 152 points and averaged 50/23.  Of course Wilt only finished in  2nd to the defensive master on the league's best team who had a whopping 297 points in the MVP voting despite having lesser stats than either Wilt or Oscar.  Defense matters in this award which is why Bill was the runaway choice for the award despite the eye popping stats from Oscar and Wilt.

Is this a vote for Smaht if the Cs get best record in the East? LOL.

Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2017, 10:20:06 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Let's just remember Oscar finished in 3rd in 61-62 with 135 points behind Wilt who had 152 points and averaged 50/23.  Of course Wilt only finished in  2nd to the defensive master on the league's best team who had a whopping 297 points in the MVP voting despite having lesser stats than either Wilt or Oscar.  Defense matters in this award which is why Bill was the runaway choice for the award despite the eye popping stats from Oscar and Wilt.

Give it to Kawhi. He checks all the boxes except self-promotion.


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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2017, 10:20:21 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I wouldn't be mad if Harden got it.

But what Westbrook has done this season is pretty amazing.
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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2017, 10:49:47 AM »

Online max215

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Russ is deserving of MVP. So are Harden and Kawhi. None is more deserving than LeBron, though.
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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2017, 10:54:29 AM »

Online bdm860

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I really like what Lowe said on this on one of his podcasts about Westbrook:

Quote
"If you don't think Russell Westbrook is stat padding his rebounds, you're just blindfully ignorant or not watching.  He is stat padding his rebounds. So if you really care enough about 2 defensive rebounds to make that the deciding factor in who you vote for, more power to you. If you vote for Westbrook, you should not do it because of the triple double. Period."

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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2017, 10:59:32 AM »

Offline jaketwice

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Who is the Thunder's best player in WB's absence? Oladipo? Taj Gibson? The Thunder are a poorly constructed team. 2/3rds of the roster are point guards or centers. For the rockets, Anderson shoots 40% 3pfg, Beverly shoots 38%, and Gordon shoots 37%. Double teaming Harden is a mistake. WB doesn't have anyone like that. He doesn't have Irving. He doesn't have Aldridge.

All of these other MVP guys have help. The Thunder are a playoff team. What more do you want? With. Terribly constructed roster, the team has made the playoffs. Taj Gibson gets you nowhere.

Without Westbrook the Thunder are the Nets, west. He's the clear MVP.

Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2017, 11:01:14 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Give it to Russ. He's having a historic year.
Harden 2nd place. Lebron/Kawhi 3rd or 4th.

You could make the argument that Lebron should win it every year. I think that would be boring.

Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2017, 11:05:49 AM »

Offline littleteapot

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Give it to Russ. He's having a historic year.
Harden 2nd place. Lebron/Kawhi 3rd or 4th.

You could make the argument that Lebron should win it every year. I think that would be boring.
It's not Lebron's fault he's better than everyone else. We shouldn't just deny him MVPs because it would be boring to admit to ourselves that he's been dominating the league for the past 10 years.

Though I would give it to Harden this year. Carrying a team that really shouldn't be in the playoffs without him, and 29 pts, 11 assists at much better efficiency than Westbrook.
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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2017, 11:47:03 AM »

Offline ederson

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It's not Lebron's fault he's better than everyone else. We shouldn't just deny him MVPs because it would be boring to admit to ourselves that he's been dominating the league for the past 10 years.

Though I would give it to Harden this year. Carrying a team that really shouldn't be in the playoffs without him, and 29 pts, 11 assists at much better efficiency than Westbrook.

The first part is true imho. Without being 100% focused and commited LBJ posts amazing stats and  gets easily 1st or 2nd seed. If he cared i`m sure he could have had a TD season.....

As far as the effiency argument goes.....
http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/order/true
Harden has lower PER and higher TO ratio .... and per sbnation is MIA in crunch time

Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 01:01:18 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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As far as the effiency argument goes.....
http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/order/true
Harden has lower PER and higher TO ratio .... and per sbnation is MIA in crunch time
PER is really a per minute production statistic. Though Harden does have a higher turnover %. I think the difference in TS% makes up for this personally, but I guess I could see the other side of it.
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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 01:53:47 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Who is the Thunder's best player in WB's absence? Oladipo? Taj Gibson?

The Thunder are a poorly constructed team.


Answer: Steven Adams


Are they "poorly constructed"?  Or are they actually quite well constructed?

I would argue they are built pretty much in an ideal fashion to play the way they've played this year, which is to let Westbrook do whatever he wants while the players around him defend their butts off and rebound all the misses.
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Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 02:29:15 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Who is the Thunder's best player in WB's absence? Oladipo? Taj Gibson?

The Thunder are a poorly constructed team.


Answer: Steven Adams


Are they "poorly constructed"?  Or are they actually quite well constructed?

I would argue they are built pretty much in an ideal fashion to play the way they've played this year, which is to let Westbrook do whatever he wants while the players around him defend their butts off and rebound all the misses.

Steven Adams - by point of reference, averages 11 points and 7 rebounds per game. He is about as good as Greg Monroe. And neither Adams nor Monroe are leading anyone to the playoffs.

I think you can make the argument that they were constructed for his benefit - but were they? Seems like they are lacking a small forward (KNOW WHAT I MEAN?). After Durant left, they signed Enes Kanter. Not exactly a comparable replacement. Did the Taj Gibson trade really put them over the top [?].

I think WB has done his best with the flotsam that was left after Durant's departure.

That said - accepting your premise as true. ...isn't it also true that no player is more valuable to his team than WB is to the Thunder? I don't give an F about the triple double season. I just think he is irreplaceable, as far as what he brings to their team. K. Leonard is awesome, no doubt. ...but he's playing with Danny Green, Aldridge, Gasol, Parker, Ginobli - a core of professionals who make his life easier.

While there is no doubt that Nazr Mohammed is a professional - I don't think he has the same skill set he had, oh, I don't know 2005/2006 when he was playing for the Spurs. Mohammed came into the league in 1998.

I think the only other real contender for MVP is Harden - so answer me this: who would be worse without their respective MVP Candidate: the Rockets? or the Thunder? I think if your answer is the Thunder, WB is the MVP. (Anderson and Trevor Ariza are, 11th and 14th on the present 3Pfg% chart for all players). Eric Gordon, his other teammate - is 4th, tied with IT.




Re: help prevent a crime: post here to support correct MVP choice
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2017, 02:32:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Steven Adams - by point of reference, averages 11 points and 7 rebounds per game. He is about as good as Greg Monroe. And neither Adams nor Monroe are leading anyone to the playoffs.


First of all, those guys are nothing alike as players except that they play the same position.

Second, you can't just look at counting stats when you evaluate players. 

Steven Adams is much, much better than Greg Monroe.


In general, your post indicates a lack of familiarity with the Thunder's roster, since you seemingly missed the fact that Enes Kanter was in OKC long before Durant left in free agency last summer.
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