Author Topic: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?  (Read 6082 times)

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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2017, 03:47:33 AM »

Offline Somebody

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If we're giving up IT we're most likely getting the deal done with him+17 brk pick and some salary filler like Zeller and Anir to match salaries. Westbrook is amazing but guys forget IT is currently an MVP candidate
IT is having a great year but he is not an mvp candidate. Westbrook and harden are the only 2 realistic options.westbrook leads the league in scoring and averages a triple double every game.

I laughed when I read that too....
The GreenTeamers around here are funny, guys like Smart & IT can do no wrong in their.
Even if they dog it on defense, shoot us out of games, or bully rookies, the GreenTeamers just don't care.
I certainly don't think like that (hated IT's 19 point game, he tried going for 20 too much) and you're underrating IT's season, he's definitely in the mix with guys like Leonard and LeBron (29ppg and 6apg is really good)

IT is probably like 6th in MVP voting this season.  He's as much in the mix for MVP as Jill Stein was for the Presidential Election.
I think he finishes 5th and 5th most valuable player in the league is pretty ****ing good.
Same here and I think he has a shot at 3rd (depends but I'm leaning more towards 5th)
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2017, 08:28:38 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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If we're giving up IT we're most likely getting the deal done with him+17 brk pick and some salary filler like Zeller and Anir to match salaries. Westbrook is amazing but guys forget IT is currently an MVP candidate
IT is having a great year but he is not an mvp candidate. Westbrook and harden are the only 2 realistic options.westbrook leads the league in scoring and averages a triple double every game.

I laughed when I read that too....
The GreenTeamers around here are funny, guys like Smart & IT can do no wrong in their.
Even if they dog it on defense, shoot us out of games, or bully rookies, the GreenTeamers just don't care.
I certainly don't think like that (hated IT's 19 point game, he tried going for 20 too much) and you're underrating IT's season, he's definitely in the mix with guys like Leonard and LeBron (29ppg and 6apg is really good)

IT is probably like 6th in MVP voting this season.  He's as much in the mix for MVP as Jill Stein was for the Presidential Election.
I think he finishes 5th and 5th most valuable player in the league is pretty ****ing good.
Same here and I think he has a shot at 3rd (depends but I'm leaning more towards 5th)

Only 5th?

Pfff, what a scrub. Trade him! (/sarcasm)
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2017, 03:45:07 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Westbrook is a great player, but I'm not sure he's a Celtics type player. He has to have the ball. IT also has similar traits, but maybe he's learning the Celtics way. Great players have to make their teammates better, or it doesn't work.

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2017, 04:09:15 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Westbrook is overrated. He couldn't win a title with KD, Ibaka, and Harden, and people think he's going to win one with Horford and Smart?

He's not a great shooter. His career FG% is .433/.312

This season it is .424/.343

Compare that to IT's .443/.368 career and .464/383 this season (with similarly limited talent around him)

Take away that massive usage rate and his numbers decline across the board. He doesn't contribute offensively when he's off the ball. It is not a sustainable style of offense.

Durant has made several verbal swipes at Westbrook this season. The fact that he left at all should tell us something about how he regards Westbrook's style.

Their offense is choppy - always has been.  The ball does not flow. It is a fatal flaw.

Swap out Westbrook with CP3 on those KD Thunder teams and they win a championship. Westbrook's style hindered them. He is good, but overrated. There is little he could do here to elevate us.

BTW he is also 28, when his athleticism starts slipping in 3-4 years he will be in for a precipitous drop, as his shooting isn't good enough to compensate.

Lol.

Westbrook was what? 23 years old when that OKC team went to the Finals? How many 23 year olds when titles? Dwyane Wade is the only guy I can think of and that was a Pat Riley coached team he played on. Kevin Durant was also on those teams, does that not make him a superstar? Flawed logic. In fact, if Kevin Durant shows up in game 6 in the WCF last season, OKC is back in the Finals.

As far as age, I'd compare Westbrook's freak athleticism to Lebron's - it may age better than people think. Whereas IT takes a beating doing what he does. Little guys already tend not to age well. 3-4 years later, you can make the same argument about IT.

My thinking is this: if both Westbrook and IT hung it up right now and never played another second of basketball, Westbrook is likely a first ballot Hall of Famer.
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2017, 01:03:02 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I don't see how Westbrook could coexist with IT4.  Westbrook is too ball dominant and wants touches and the ball in his hand so he gets his points.  Unless he turned into a SG... I don't see it.

We really don't need a SG unless that is an elite upgrade over AB.  We don't need a PG because we'll likely end up with a star PG or SG from the draft anyways.

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2017, 01:26:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't see how Westbrook could coexist with IT4.  Westbrook is too ball dominant and wants touches and the ball in his hand so he gets his points.  Unless he turned into a SG... I don't see it.

We really don't need a SG unless that is an elite upgrade over AB.  We don't need a PG because we'll likely end up with a star PG or SG from the draft anyways.
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 02:03:11 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Westbrook is overrated. He couldn't win a title with KD, Ibaka, and Harden, and people think he's going to win one with Horford and Smart?

He's not a great shooter. His career FG% is .433/.312

This season it is .424/.343

Compare that to IT's .443/.368 career and .464/383 this season (with similarly limited talent around him)

Take away that massive usage rate and his numbers decline across the board. He doesn't contribute offensively when he's off the ball. It is not a sustainable style of offense.

Durant has made several verbal swipes at Westbrook this season. The fact that he left at all should tell us something about how he regards Westbrook's style.

Their offense is choppy - always has been.  The ball does not flow. It is a fatal flaw.

Swap out Westbrook with CP3 on those KD Thunder teams and they win a championship. Westbrook's style hindered them. He is good, but overrated. There is little he could do here to elevate us.

BTW he is also 28, when his athleticism starts slipping in 3-4 years he will be in for a precipitous drop, as his shooting isn't good enough to compensate.

Lol.

Westbrook was what? 23 years old when that OKC team went to the Finals? How many 23 year olds when titles? Dwyane Wade is the only guy I can think of and that was a Pat Riley coached team he played on. Kevin Durant was also on those teams, does that not make him a superstar? Flawed logic. In fact, if Kevin Durant shows up in game 6 in the WCF last season, OKC is back in the Finals.

As far as age, I'd compare Westbrook's freak athleticism to Lebron's - it may age better than people think. Whereas IT takes a beating doing what he does. Little guys already tend not to age well. 3-4 years later, you can make the same argument about IT.

My thinking is this: if both Westbrook and IT hung it up right now and never played another second of basketball, Westbrook is likely a first ballot Hall of Famer.

lol, you somehow missed all the points I was trying to make, and failed to refute them. My primary point is not that IT is better than Westbrook. My point is that Westbrook is overrated by the media and by fans on this site.

1. KD has taken swipes at Westbrook and clearly thought he wouldn't win a title there with him. Do you think Westbrook would win a title here with a lesser roster than what OKC had? KD wasted several years of his early prime with Westbrook and decided to cut his losses. Good for him. BTW it is rumored KD would have come here to play for us with IT if the Warriors had won the finals last year.

2. Westbrook is not as efficient a shooter as most true superstars. Fact. IT, despite getting far less fanfare, puts up significantly better percentages. This is a big problem for a guy who struggles playing off the ball. If he isn't scoring he doesn't help the team much on offense. And as his athleticism inevitably declines, this will make him that much more inefficient.

3. OKC has the 6th-worst assist rate in the NBA. last year it was 7th-worst. The year before it was 2nd-worst. The OKC offense is choppy, partially because Westbrook plays too much hero ball and has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. This is not a recipe for success. Watch the Houston Rockets - who have a very flawed roster and were projected to win only 41.5 games by Vegas - move the ball around far better than OKC does. Harden is just a much smarter player and a more efficient scorer. We've seen how the ball flies around in Golden State with KD (GS is top-2 in ast% in the NBA over the last 3 years), which is in stark contrast to his years in OKC.

4. His insane usage rate of 41.7% is by far the highest in NBA history. He's led the league in USG% 2 of the last 3 years, which also happen to be 2 of the three highest NBA usage rates of all-time. Compare that with CP3's career 24% rate. The highest season CP3 has ever had was 27.1% last year. Say what you want about the Clips, but the ball does move around there decently well.

Looking at a guy like Westbrook who doesn't shoot the ball with great efficiency, this is a problem for the Thunder. You can point to his assist totals as a sign that he does make his team good, and yet the team % is still poor, and they visibly struggle to form any cohesive offense. The usage% boosts his points and assists while partially masking serious problems under the proverbial hood. The high usage rate will also likely contribute to major wear and tear on a body that already relies too much on raw athleticism.

Apologists might point to the fact that OKC's roster this year isn't great and that Russ needs to dominate the ball. The problem with that is that this has been a pattern for many years now, and that there are teams with similar supporting casts who move the ball much better (like the C's, who are 2nd in assist% this year). Either he is uncoachable and doesn't want to get his teammates involved, or he is simply unable to read the floor the way a Steve Nash or a Harden or a CP3 does.

Either way, the Thunder have never reached their potential, and I fear those problems might follow Westbrook wherever he goes.

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2017, 09:08:11 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So if we get bounced in the first round, and so does OKC, do you think adding Westbrook to this team takes us to the next level or no?

I think he does. You can call him a ball hog, but the C's need a Westbrook type player on this team to prevail in the postseason, and the C's are much deeper than OKC. That being said, C's would need another big IMO.


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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2017, 09:28:27 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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If we're giving up IT we're most likely getting the deal done with him+17 brk pick and some salary filler like Zeller and Anir to match salaries. Westbrook is amazing but guys forget IT is currently an MVP candidate
IT is having a great year but he is not an mvp candidate. Westbrook and harden are the only 2 realistic options.westbrook leads the league in scoring and averages a triple double every game.

Westbrook is very inefficient with highest usg% in the league. IT would average 40+ in a game too with 40 shots. Until Westbrook fix his decision making, especially in crunch time, I don't want any part of him.

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2017, 08:22:24 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Part of me wonders as I watch this OKC-Houston Game 5...

Could this be Russell's last year with OKC?

It sounds absurd but a first round exit here and considering Russ has the player option after next season, OKC may look to move on and get a kings ransom.

Doubt RW would demand a trade but OKC's FO could consider a full out rebuild.

And if I'm not mistaken, they don't have much cap room to even acquire other stars like say, Griffin, unless of course they moved some of their core guys, which is more of a lateral move then.
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2017, 08:34:00 PM »

Offline moiso

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The Celtics have several good players.  I think Westbrook would make them all worse.  I really don't think he'd improve the team as much as you would think an MVP would do.

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 08:39:51 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The Celtics have several good players.  I think Westbrook would make them all worse.  I really don't think he'd improve the team as much as you would think an MVP would do.

Yeah I just figured it was an interesting thing to discuss.

If he did play more "team ball" with Boston, I mean, I don't see how that team can't contend for a Finals (even with Lebron in the East and Warriors out West).

But there's the problem... he doesn't with OKC.
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2017, 08:47:48 PM »

Offline moiso

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The Celtics have several good players.  I think Westbrook would make them all worse.  I really don't think he'd improve the team as much as you would think an MVP would do.

Yeah I just figured it was an interesting thing to discuss.

If he did play more "team ball" with Boston, I mean, I don't see how that team can't contend for a Finals (even with Lebron in the East and Warriors out West).

But there's the problem... he doesn't with OKC.
I think he just is who he is at this point.  You know he feels like the man after this season he just had, even if he gets bounced in the first round.  As amazing as Westbrook is, I kind of look at him as a waste of talent.   He's never going to sniff a championship, and with his talent that's a waste.

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2017, 08:48:44 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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So if we get bounced in the first round, and so does OKC, do you think adding Westbrook to this team takes us to the next level or no?

I think he does. You can call him a ball hog, but the C's need a Westbrook type player on this team to prevail in the postseason, and the C's are much deeper than OKC. That being said, C's would need another big IMO.

OKC has a Westbrook like player and theyre going nowhere

Re: HYPOTHETICALLY, Is Westbrook Worth BKN Picks + Chance At Max FA?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2017, 08:50:32 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So if we get bounced in the first round, and so does OKC, do you think adding Westbrook to this team takes us to the next level or no?

I think he does. You can call him a ball hog, but the C's need a Westbrook type player on this team to prevail in the postseason, and the C's are much deeper than OKC. That being said, C's would need another big IMO.

OKC has a Westbrook like player and theyre going nowhere

I think the C's are more deeper though than OKC. You're not wrong though.

I'm watching right now, OKC choked away an 8 point lead in a span of 2 minutes w/Westbrook on the bench.
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