Author Topic: Draft2016:Ben Simmons vs Draft2017:Markelle Fultz - who's better for us?  (Read 4466 times)

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Offline __ramonezy__

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Oftentimes I see threads that compare drafts by looking at the very top of the class. I would also like to do something similar, assuming we do get the #1 pick, would you rather have the number 1 pick in this year's draft or last year's?

For all intents and purposes this is essentially a question about Simmons vs Fultz and even though I think this year's draft is better than last year's, I believe Simmons would be a better fit for us going forward.

Ironically I think an argument can be made that we should be able to get Simmons if we do actually get the #1 pick. Dario Saric is a bonafide star-in-the-making and his ability to stretch the floor better suits Joel Embiid than the current version of Ben Simmons. What the 76ers lack is play-making from the Guard positions. If they trade Simmons for the #1 pick, they could very well enter next season with both Fultz at PG and Monk at SG, which benefits them greatly. The 76ers are known for picking the best player available and then trying to talk up their ability to work together and we all know it's a farce. I highly doubt Simmons can be the primary ball handler in an offense... sure he can do it in spurts, but he won't be a PG.

We are already set at the Guard position and would love an injection of athleticism in the front court, the thought of Horford/Crowder throwing alley-oops to Brown and Simmons is exciting. With this move and coupling in a potential Blake Griffin Free Agency, this team could be a serious contender for next year and the foreseeable future... and still keep our Nets 2018 pick.

So which do you think would be better for us?

Offline clintonwalker

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It's probably just me but I dont see Ben Simmons as a superstar ever. I do that understand the infatuation, he's a good passer and a good basketball player but he doesn't have the upside. Mainly because of his lack of aggressiveness on the offensive end. I think both Lonzo and markelle end up as better players especially o. The offensive side. Ben Simmons is a point forward version of lonzo but he can't and does t want to shoot...

Offline KGBirdBias

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To be quite honest, I'm not sure Simmons would go first in this draft.

We haven't seen the guy play in the tourney last year, no summer league, no NBA season. I still don't know if he can shoot from outside 8 feet.

I've seen several guys that look more prepared for the NBA than he does. I'm not saying he won't be good but he has a lot to work on.

Offline droopdog7

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One of the nice things about fultz is his flexibility.  He can play on or off the ball and be effective.  He'd fit in pretty seamlessly.  Simmons on the other hand needs to ball to be effective.  And, he has a big hole in his game (jump shot).

So I take fultz.

Offline SuddenFame

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To be quite honest, I'm not sure Simmons would go first in this draft.

We haven't seen the guy play in the tourney last year, no summer league, no NBA season. I still don't know if he can shoot from outside 8 feet.

Pretty sure he played summer ball last year, and he looked really good at times dishing the rock

https://youtu.be/eQAwDojUXOs
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 04:40:38 PM by SuddenFame »

Offline positivitize

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If you look at my signature, you'll see how I think this years draft compares to last years draft. Spoiler alert. This years is better.

I think Simmons fits our team better, but I think Fultz is the superior prospect and talent. When you draft 1-5 you should never draft for need. I take Fultz every day and laugh all the way to the bank.
My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Kemba, Grant Williams, Sleepy Williams, Edwards!

Anti:
Kanter, Semi, Theis, Poierier

Offline Ilikesports17

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If you look at my signature, you'll see how I think this years draft compares to last years draft. Spoiler alert. This years is better.

I think Simmons fits our team better, but I think Fultz is the superior prospect and talent. When you draft 1-5 you should never draft for need. I take Fultz every day and laugh all the way to the bank.
out of curiosity, what do those numbers mean?
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Offline positivitize

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If you look at my signature, you'll see how I think this years draft compares to last years draft. Spoiler alert. This years is better.

I think Simmons fits our team better, but I think Fultz is the superior prospect and talent. When you draft 1-5 you should never draft for need. I take Fultz every day and laugh all the way to the bank.
out of curiosity, what do those numbers mean?

I think of it as a rough, totally unscientific, rating system out of 10 based on how I see the prospects. 9s and 10s are potential super stars/all stars, 7s and 8s are potental all stars/starters, 5s and 6s potential starters/decent bench players. Generally speaking, the higher the number, the more successful I feel a prospect will be in the NBA. As you can see from my highly curated graph, I feel that this years draft is worlds better than last years. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for a potential 5th pick of Isaac to be better than the 2nd picked Ingram from last year.
My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Kemba, Grant Williams, Sleepy Williams, Edwards!

Anti:
Kanter, Semi, Theis, Poierier

Offline loco_91

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I like Fultz a lot better. Simmons has a glaring weakness (shooting), which Fultz doesn't. Simmons also has attitude questions. I'll take Fultz's all-around awesomeness over Simmons's mix of elite strengths and worrisome weaknesses. I would also take Lonzo over Simmons.

Offline gouki88

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I like Fultz more, as he isn't nearly the poor shooter Simmons is, and his attitude seems less questionable.

As someone above said, Simmons, in my opinion, doesn't seem to have that first option star player potential.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline Csfan1984

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Simmons looked like a player that could be great. Fultz looks like a player that will be great.

Simmons fits a need at PF. Fultz plays teams strongest position PG.

Both players have some position flexibility to get more PT though. Fultz can be an okay SG and Simmons would be great at SF depending on match-up.

Because of that last one I'd say C's are fine to take Fultz over Simmons. If Fultz could only play PG I'd be worried about a log jam but it isn't the case. And yes I do worry about a log jam because players need PT to develop.

Offline crimson_stallion

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Im going to say Simmons.

Fultz is a very nice player who lools to have a Damian Lillard like ceiling,  but Simmons' ceiling is so much higher.   He's probably a bigger risk as well because of personality and his one glaring limitation (shooting),  but in a "stars align"  there are very few players ive seen in the past 30-40 years who have the type of potential Simmons has...and as a bonus he's a natural Pf, which is the one position we are most desperate for.

Fultz is a very talented all round player, but his size limits his versatility a little.   He can play pg and SG, but that's really it - he's too small to play the SF spot (at 6'4" or so).

Simmons could play positions 1 through 5 and he can play then all relatively easily.   Very few players in history that have been able to do that.   You have Magic, LeBron, Odom - off the top of my head I can't think of any others,  and even Odom is a squeeze because he'd only be able to play pg or C in emergency minutes...while Magic, LeBron or Simmons could start at either Pg or C for a full season if they had to. 

Even other highly versatile guys like Penny,  TMac, Paul George and Pippen couldn't dream of starting at Center for a full season.

A combination of size and talent like that just can't be tought.  That's a God given gift, and if he could imperative his jumper and his attitide his potential is seriously limitless.

Offline crimson_stallion

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If you look at my signature, you'll see how I think this years draft compares to last years draft. Spoiler alert. This years is better.

I think Simmons fits our team better, but I think Fultz is the superior prospect and talent. When you draft 1-5 you should never draft for need. I take Fultz every day and laugh all the way to the bank.
out of curiosity, what do those numbers mean?

I think of it as a rough, totally unscientific, rating system out of 10 based on how I see the prospects. 9s and 10s are potential super stars/all stars, 7s and 8s are potental all stars/starters, 5s and 6s potential starters/decent bench players. Generally speaking, the higher the number, the more successful I feel a prospect will be in the NBA. As you can see from my highly curated graph, I feel that this years draft is worlds better than last years. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for a potential 5th pick of Isaac to be better than the 2nd picked Ingram from last year.

Ingram always looked hugely overrated though - i never understood the fascination.  People hyped him up way to much based purely on height, length and a skinny frame and somehow allowed that to convince them he'd be the next Durant...but Ingrams college starts are far from standout, while Durants college stats were off the charts - they were clearly two entirely different tier of prospect.

It's just like all the hype people gave Bender - 7'3" guy who had a jump shot,  BANG immediately means he's the next Porzingis.  Now it looks like he might be outplayed by Zizic who we took some 20 picks later.

People also bashed on Heild, and he's clearly been one of the better players in the draft so far.  People get too obsessed with age, size and length and pay too little attention to skill and talent.

Not saying that youth and physical talent aren't important,  but they arent much help unless they are combined with impressive levels of skill.  A skilled player with limited physicals is probably going to be a better nba player then a physical freak with limited skill.

Offline crimson_stallion

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I mean seriously,  people hate on Simmons based on nothing but his lack of a consistent jump shot and the question of whether he has a winners mentally.

You know what other versatile wing had those same issues when they were young?   Lebron James.  Hell you name make a fair argument that he still suffers from those same limitations now,  12 or so season into his career.   He still struggles as a jump shooter and he still has make personality question marks.

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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To be quite honest, I'm not sure Simmons would go first in this draft.

We haven't seen the guy play in the tourney last year, no summer league, no NBA season. I still don't know if he can shoot from outside 8 feet.

Pretty sure he played summer ball last year, and he looked really good at times dishing the rock

https://youtu.be/eQAwDojUXOs

Those highlights from last summer league are amazing.  The passing alone is incredible, and after watching a good amount of Fultz this past year I'm inclined to believe that Simmons is a definitely better prospect.