Poll

What To Do With Isaiah Thomas?

Keep Him (Just Pay Him Near Max/Max) - We NEED Him
26 (63.4%)
Trade Him Even If Not For Much (Don't Need Him And His Contract After 2018)
15 (36.6%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?  (Read 12377 times)

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Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2017, 04:09:25 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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IT is basically our entire offence.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2017, 04:11:29 PM »

Online Moranis

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.
IT and AB are both worth more because they're proven players and proven to be better players.  Parker and Middleton may have 2 more years under contract but they inferior players.  you don't give up that much talent for so little.
Middleton is better than Bradley.  Not really all that close imo.  Parker isn't now, but his ceiling is way higher, though has greater injury concerns than Bradley.
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Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2017, 04:28:35 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.


I vehemently disagree with this notion. There is absolutely no reason you can complete while simultaneously develop8ng young talent.


EDIT: Should have read the whole thread before replying, I understand why you believe that, though I disagree.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2017, 04:29:34 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.


Yeah, I still don't really see a downside to keeping IT, Crowder, and Horford for at least another 3-4 seasons and letting the rest of the roster just be a young, talented, developing crew.

Smart
Fultz/Ball
Brown
Olynyk
Rozier
Jackson
Zizic
Yabu
etc.


I completely agree.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 04:32:31 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.
IT and AB are both worth more because they're proven players and proven to be better players.  Parker and Middleton may have 2 more years under contract but they inferior players.  you don't give up that much talent for so little.
Middleton is better than Bradley.  Not really all that close imo.  Parker isn't now, but his ceiling is way higher, though has greater injury concerns than Bradley.


"Not really all that close"?

Seriously?

Why must you always underrate C's while over rating other teams guys?

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 04:53:02 PM »

Online Moranis

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.
IT and AB are both worth more because they're proven players and proven to be better players.  Parker and Middleton may have 2 more years under contract but they inferior players.  you don't give up that much talent for so little.
Middleton is better than Bradley.  Not really all that close imo.  Parker isn't now, but his ceiling is way higher, though has greater injury concerns than Bradley.


"Not really all that close"?

Seriously?

Why must you always underrate C's while over rating other teams guys?
Middleton is an excellent player.  Very underrated.  There is a reason Milwaukee has gone a nice tear after he returned and got into game shape.  I mean they are 11-2 in the 13 games Middleton has started.  It isn't a coincidence.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2017, 05:01:47 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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I would trade IT for Myles Turner in a heartbeat. In fact, I would even throw in a sweetener for Indy.

Another idea would be IT and the 2019 Memphis first for Saric and the 2019 Sacramento first (unprotected). Don't see Philly accepting this, but it's worth a try.

IT for Jimmy Butler is a lateral move. Why would Chicago be interested in something like that?

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2017, 05:08:28 PM »

Offline Fireworks_Boom!

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Well then, you're agreeing to basically not seriously contending for a championship for that same period of time. When I say "seriously" I mean top 4 team in the league who can match-up with CLE, GSW, SAS. That crew just isn't at that level of the aforementioned teams and has match-up flaws come playoffs.

This rebuild has been ongoing now for 5 years. Another 3 years is a long time to wait...especially given the amount of assets (and redundancy) Ainge has stockpiled on this team.

If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.


Yeah, I still don't really see a downside to keeping IT, Crowder, and Horford for at least another 3-4 seasons and letting the rest of the roster just be a young, talented, developing crew.

Smart
Fultz/Ball
Brown
Olynyk
Rozier
Jackson
Zizic
Yabu
etc.


I completely agree.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2017, 05:46:11 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.
IT and AB are both worth more because they're proven players and proven to be better players.  Parker and Middleton may have 2 more years under contract but they inferior players.  you don't give up that much talent for so little.
Middleton is better than Bradley.  Not really all that close imo.  Parker isn't now, but his ceiling is way higher, though has greater injury concerns than Bradley.


"Not really all that close"?

Seriously?

Why must you always underrate C's while over rating other teams guys?
Middleton is an excellent player.  Very underrated.  There is a reason Milwaukee has gone a nice tear after he returned and got into game shape.  I mean they are 11-2 in the 13 games Middleton has started.  It isn't a coincidence.

Except I highly doubt adding Middleton while losing IT + Bradley makes us that much better, and that was the proposed trade.

"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2017, 05:47:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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they won't develop properly, you won't get to see if they are worth big money raises, and you won't be able to keep everyone for salary purposes.


Based on what? 

Smart has been brought along in that way and he's doing just fine.

As for salary, it'll be 4+ years before guys like Brown, Zizic, Fultz etc are due for a raise, at which point the veterans will be ready to come off the books.
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Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2017, 05:50:43 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Well then, you're agreeing to basically not seriously contending for a championship for that same period of time. When I say "seriously" I mean top 4 team in the league who can match-up with CLE, GSW, SAS. That crew just isn't at that level of the aforementioned teams and has match-up flaws come playoffs.

This rebuild has been ongoing now for 5 years. Another 3 years is a long time to wait...especially given the amount of assets (and redundancy) Ainge has stockpiled on this team.


Well, sure.

But "contending" in the sense of being on the same level as the teams you mentioned just might not be in the cards.

Even if they trade a bunch of assets for Jimmy Butler, that might not be enough.

So, if it's not clear that this team can get to that level, what's the harm in sticking with this current entertaining and competitive core? 

In 4-5 years when the younger guys are hitting their prime, we can see if those guys are good enough to contend.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2017, 05:52:35 PM »

Offline moiso

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I think the rebuild is over.  We are the 2nd best team in the east.   We are still improving and Ainge could make a trade but I don't think we are rebuilding.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 06:05:31 PM by moiso »

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2017, 06:17:27 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I think the rebuild is over.  We are the 2nd best team in the east.   We are still improving and Ainge could make a trade but I don't think we are rebuilding.

We will be again IF Isaiah is traded.

We don't have another replacement for him and Fultz/Ball are no guarantees either.

IT is pretty much our offense especially in tight games.

"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2017, 06:38:42 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2017, 06:44:18 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.
IT and AB are both worth more because they're proven players and proven to be better players.  Parker and Middleton may have 2 more years under contract but they inferior players.  you don't give up that much talent for so little.
Middleton is better than Bradley.  Not really all that close imo.  Parker isn't now, but his ceiling is way higher, though has greater injury concerns than Bradley.


"Not really all that close"?

Seriously?

Why must you always underrate C's while over rating other teams guys?
Middleton is an excellent player.  Very underrated.  There is a reason Milwaukee has gone a nice tear after he returned and got into game shape.  I mean they are 11-2 in the 13 games Middleton has started.  It isn't a coincidence.

Except I highly doubt adding Middleton while losing IT + Bradley makes us that much better, and that was the proposed trade.
all are overpays, only one thats not egregious is Butler.
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