Poll

What To Do With Isaiah Thomas?

Keep Him (Just Pay Him Near Max/Max) - We NEED Him
26 (63.4%)
Trade Him Even If Not For Much (Don't Need Him And His Contract After 2018)
15 (36.6%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?  (Read 12360 times)

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Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2017, 01:10:56 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2017, 01:22:57 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Need a 'play out the contract' option. No need to trade him.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2017, 01:33:06 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.
Ainge is a ballsy GM in my opinion.

That said, I dont think he has the balls to either a) mortgage the future or b) blow it up and go all in on the future.

He is going to hold on to his really good team for the next decade and hope a dumb GM or a stroke of luck elevates them to favorite status.

That is what I expect. The team is good enough that Ainge can keep the band together and not really get lucky for the next decade and still be a top 4 seed for the next 7/8 years.

Id be absolutely floored if he blew it up this offseason. IT is here to stay.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2017, 01:41:53 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.
Ainge is a ballsy GM in my opinion.

That said, I dont think he has the balls to either a) mortgage the future or b) blow it up and go all in on the future.

He is going to hold on to his really good team for the next decade and hope a dumb GM or a stroke of luck elevates them to favorite status.

That is what I expect. The team is good enough that Ainge can keep the band together and not really get lucky for the next decade and still be a top 4 seed for the next 7/8 years.

Id be absolutely floored if he blew it up this offseason. IT is here to stay.
you sacrifice both when you don't pick a plan.  Ainge has to go all in on the rebuild or all in on a contender.  You can only have your cake and eat it for so long. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2017, 01:41:53 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender. 
They're closer to contender so a full rebuild isn't going to happen.  we're not at a tipping point by any means considering this team has been rising through the NBA ranks the past couple of years.  Continue improving the roster each year.  I suspect the recent picks will continue to develop and improve this team and Danny's management of the cap will keep us in a prime position to snag another all-star level free agent this year or next.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender. 
They're closer to contender so a full rebuild isn't going to happen.  we're not at a tipping point by any means considering this team has been rising through the NBA ranks the past couple of years.  Continue improving the roster each year.  I suspect the recent picks will continue to develop and improve this team and Danny's management of the cap will keep us in a prime position to snag another all-star level free agent this year or next.
I have no problem with going all in, the team just needs to pick a direction and imo needs to do so this summer.  With the age and salaries as they are of the starters, Boston needs to decide if wants to add to the core group or hit the reset button and build around the young guys and get the vets out of the way so those young guys get the playing time they need to fully develop (and to develop faster). 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2017, 02:25:25 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.


Yeah, I still don't really see a downside to keeping IT, Crowder, and Horford for at least another 3-4 seasons and letting the rest of the roster just be a young, talented, developing crew.

Smart
Fultz/Ball
Brown
Olynyk
Rozier
Jackson
Zizic
Yabu
etc.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2017, 02:29:09 PM »

Offline blackbird

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2017, 02:34:21 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Marcus Thornton and a late first.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2017, 02:47:43 PM »

Offline nebist

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The only idea I've heard that MIGHT make sense to both teams is IT plus some non-elite prospects/picks (so no BRK picks and no Brown/Smart) for Butler since CHI was reportedly torn between re-build packages and ready-now pieces.  So something like IT, matching salary, LAC, and MEM pick for Butler.  I still don't see that happening though.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2017, 03:05:20 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you're trading IT you've got to tell me where the Celts are getting an elite shot-creator to replace him.

You're nothing in this league without a really good pick and roll ball-handler.  I don't just mean a passer; I mean a guy who can score in a multitude of ways out of the pick and roll.  Pull-up three, pull-up mid-range, get to the basket and finish, draw fouls, pass to the roll man for a dunk, kick out to the perimeter for an open three.  You gotta have a guy with all of those options in his toolbox when he's operating the pick and roll.  And if you want to be any good, you need that guy to be experienced enough to run the pick and roll quite a bit without screwing up.
presumably that would be Fultz or Ball because Boston isn't trading Thomas unless it lands one of those two (and it still might not trade Thomas).  Boston then goes into full rebuilding mode and looks to sell off other players, with the potential for 2 high lottery picks in the 2018 draft which is loaded with front court players.

I know you disagree with me on this, but I think this summer is the tipping point for the roster.   The Celtics either need to commit to the rebuild or go all in on trying to field a real and legit contender.


Yeah, I still don't really see a downside to keeping IT, Crowder, and Horford for at least another 3-4 seasons and letting the rest of the roster just be a young, talented, developing crew.

Smart
Fultz/Ball
Brown
Olynyk
Rozier
Jackson
Zizic
Yabu
etc.
they won't develop properly, you won't get to see if they are worth big money raises, and you won't be able to keep everyone for salary purposes. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2017, 03:31:41 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2017, 03:49:52 PM »

Offline blackbird

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2017, 04:01:31 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I am 100% behind the idea of a 3 year extension or a trade. I want to keep IT but he may have plenty of reason to leave. If he doesn't agree to an extension I'd trade him for two 1st and a young big. 3 year extension at max dollars should be offered ASAP.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 04:12:22 PM by Csfan1984 »

Re: To The "Trade IT" Crowd. What Are We Trading Him FOR?
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2017, 04:08:32 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Thomas + Bradley + some 2018 and/or 2019 pick

For

Jimmy Butler

------

Thomas

For

Jabari Parker

-----

Thomas + Bradley

For

Khris Middleton
each one of those is gross overpayment by the C's.  ridiculous.

IT's worth far more than just Parker or Middleton and arguably an even swap with Butler (Butler can't shoot/score like IT but is a better defender)

The only one it's an overpayment for is Parker. Middleton and Butler both have three more years on their deals. Thomas and Bradley will be expiring.
IT and AB are both worth more because they're proven players and proven to be better players.  Parker and Middleton may have 2 more years under contract but they inferior players.  you don't give up that much talent for so little.