Author Topic: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?  (Read 5548 times)

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Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« on: March 23, 2017, 01:28:16 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I know they have been struggling for a few months, but I kind of have kept having the mindset that they would just turn things on. Or, perhaps it was a matter of missing Love. However, now I am starting to have my doubts.

For one, their defense really sucks and I am not sure that they really have a next level switch they can bring it to.
-Love and Irving really have to try their butts off to be average defenders.
- Jr Smith and Korver were always bad defenders, but now at 35 years old they may not even be able to muster passable defense anymore.
- Tristan Thompson really doesn't seem like has developed or gotten better the last few years
- Lebron can still dominate and is still great, but you can definitely see him getting wiped quicker than in years past and I am not sure he still has 40 minutes of domination in him for repeated games
-Richard Jefferson and Deron Williams and Channing Frye are all pretty old

A state that got me thinking about this from the ESPN article today.
"Cavs coach Tyronn Lue was less optimistic. He has seen his team's defensive efficiency get worse every month this season. The Cavaliers allowed 104 points per 100 possessions in October and November (15th in the NBA), 106.2 in December (14th), 107.0 in January (14th), 109.8 in February (23rd) and 114 this month."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18981770/cleveland-cavaliers-sift-rubble-blowout-loss-denver-nuggets

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 01:34:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I just think they don't care about the regular season all that much.  I'd still expect that once the playoffs start, they will be more focused and will perform better.  That said, they have never been a great defensive team and that has always been a weakness.
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 01:40:53 PM »

Offline moiso

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Yeah, I think Cleveland will be fine, even better than last year.  I agree with Moranis for once.  Their intensity will go way up in the playoffs when it needs to.  Lebron will be superhuman.  Jefferson has been playing great despite his age.  Williams and Korver are great additions.

If I had to bet on a team to win it all, I'd bet on the Cavs.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 01:41:42 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I just think they don't care about the regular season all that much.  I'd still expect that once the playoffs start, they will be more focused and will perform better.  That said, they have never been a great defensive team and that has always been a weakness.

Do you not have some doubts that their defense can really magically ramp up in the post season?
I think having an extra perimeter defender off the bench last year in Delladova was helpful for them.
Also just the age of their team. You never know when players have a steep age decline but consider these guys having played 30 more games the last two seasons that most teams and and the majority of their rotation is 32 or older...I have last confidence in them blowing through the conference than they did the last few years. There is a big difference between 30 and 32 in the NBA.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 01:43:40 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Yeah, I think Cleveland will be fine, even better than last year.  I agree with Moranis for once.  Their intensity will go way up in the playoffs when it needs to.  Lebron will be superhuman.  Jefferson has been playing great despite his age.  Williams and Korver are great additions.

If I had to bet on a team to win it all, I'd bet on the Cavs.

This is from the same article:

What is also a sure thing is how dire the Cavs' repeat chances will become if Cleveland continues its porous defense. The Cavs rank 22nd in the NBA in defensive efficiency this season and 29th in March, according to ESPN Stats & Information. No NBA champion in the past 20 seasons finished the regular season ranked worse than 19th in that category (the 2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers, another repeat champion). Last season, the Cavs finished 10th in defensive efficiency.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 01:43:46 PM »

Offline apc

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The league got better.
Few teams starting to show the fruits of tanking.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 01:45:39 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Lebron's +/- was an unheard of -30 last night.  Got to wonder if he's getting burned out.  That said, Denver is always a tough place to play.

Also, their bench rotation is old and not good defensively.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 01:48:09 PM »

Offline moiso

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Yeah, I think Cleveland will be fine, even better than last year.  I agree with Moranis for once.  Their intensity will go way up in the playoffs when it needs to.  Lebron will be superhuman.  Jefferson has been playing great despite his age.  Williams and Korver are great additions.

If I had to bet on a team to win it all, I'd bet on the Cavs.

This is from the same article:

What is also a sure thing is how dire the Cavs' repeat chances will become if Cleveland continues its porous defense. The Cavs rank 22nd in the NBA in defensive efficiency this season and 29th in March, according to ESPN Stats & Information. No NBA champion in the past 20 seasons finished the regular season ranked worse than 19th in that category (the 2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers, another repeat champion). Last season, the Cavs finished 10th in defensive efficiency.
"if Cleveland continues".   They will never be a great defensive team but I think they can ramp it up a few notches from what it's been.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2017, 01:48:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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They are one year older.

LeBron has been so great for so long that people tend to forget that he's a 32yo with 13(!) years of NBA tenure.

Guys like JR Smith and Kyle Korver, even though they missed a good part of this season are also not spring chickens.

They remind me a lot of the 09-10 Celtics in the way they're treating their regular season...
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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Lebron's +/- was an unheard of -30 last night.  Got to wonder if he's getting burned out.  That said, Denver is always a tough place to play.

Also, their bench rotation is old and not good defensively.


Don't we know it about Denver. That team is going to be a tough "out" for any team including Golden State.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 01:57:45 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I don't think we'll know until the playoffs start.  They seem to be missing something, and having a year-long title hangover.  So are they capable of turning it on for the playoffs or not?  They should rollover their first-round opponent, whomever it is.  If they still look like the inconsistent post-ASB Cavs during that series, even if they win, then it's safe to say they couldn't flick the playoff switch, and are thus very vulnerable.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 02:00:04 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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The league got better.
Few teams starting to show the fruits of tanking.

I think the league, especially the East, being overall better has a lot to do with it. Look at the teams that they've lost to recently: Denver, Houston, Detroit, Miami, Boston, OKC, etc. (not counting LAC or Chicago when they rested several guys). They can't sleepwalk through the regular season and still get the number one seed anymore like they did in years past.

These teams are either 1) really good and close to the Cavs' overall level (Houston, Boston), 2) pretty good with significant matchup advantages over the Cavs (Denver, Detroit, OKC, Miami), or 3) playing their best ball of the season so far (Miami).

They'll turn it up and be a bit better during the playoffs and should still be considered the favorite in the East, but I don't think they're overall as good as last year. People don't realize how old many of their rotation players really are, along with some of their younger guys having significant injury histories that have slowed them down and/or significant miles on their legs already.

Depending on the matchups, they're going to be really challenged in the East this year. If they get a Milwaukee/Miami first round, Toronto second round, and Boston third round, then that's going to present a daunting task for Cleveland that will really challenge them, unlike the last several years where they've waltzed through the East.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2017, 02:02:11 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The way Cleveland has played, I'd still pick them to be in the Finals.

But if they match up with San Antonio it will be a long series for them (SAS match up really well against them).

They could beat the Warriors but if KD is 100% healthy and the rest of the Warriors are too, it will still be tough for CLE. Their defense is certainly not that good anymore and it's showing.

Even if they don't care about the regular season, it certainly won't be easy in the playoffs either.
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2017, 02:12:53 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Cleveland in my mind is still the clear favorite to come out of the East.  Even with all of their inconsistencies, they are still the #1 seed as of this moment.

Cleveland is a veteran (i.e older) team that doesn't seem to place a great importance on the regular season.  I expect that once the playoffs start we'll see them at their best.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2017, 02:13:27 PM »

Offline RJ87

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No, they've got regular season malaise but they'll be fine. The defensive issue is a bit overstated IMO. JR Smith has shown he can play solid defense when he feels like it, Korver is not a lockdown defender but he's a smart team-defense guy, Derrick Williams can take some minutes against wings when needed. Their biggest issue to me this season has been health. If all of their guys are healthy and ready to go in the playoffs, they're the favorite to get to the Finals - defensive issues and all.
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