Author Topic: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?  (Read 5545 times)

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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2017, 02:21:18 PM »

Offline Clench123

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Anybody knows when Love is scheduled to return?

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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2017, 02:26:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Anybody knows when Love is scheduled to return?
he is back already
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2017, 02:26:10 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Anybody knows when Love is scheduled to return?

Negative one week (unless he got injured last night and I didn't hear about it).

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2017, 02:30:55 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Their last year making the finals ... Wont win it though

Lebron prob ditches them to sign with GSW or Spurs

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 02:40:30 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I just think they don't care about the regular season all that much.  I'd still expect that once the playoffs start, they will be more focused and will perform better.  That said, they have never been a great defensive team and that has always been a weakness.

Do you not have some doubts that their defense can really magically ramp up in the post season?
I think having an extra perimeter defender off the bench last year in Delladova was helpful for them.
Also just the age of their team. You never know when players have a steep age decline but consider these guys having played 30 more games the last two seasons that most teams and and the majority of their rotation is 32 or older...I have last confidence in them blowing through the conference than they did the last few years. There is a big difference between 30 and 32 in the NBA.
I have no doubts at all at Cleveland being more focused in the post season and thus better.  As I said, they aren't going to magically become some sort of lock down defensive oriented team, that is not their game, but they will be better. 

Also, once they go into playoff minutes, and the starters all playing in the 40 mpg range, it will shrink the bench problems a great deal.  They also have a lot of flexibility depending on matchups.  I mean they can play Shumpert or Deron at the backup PG.  Shumpert, Korver, or Jefferson at backup SG.  Derrick, Korver, or Jefferson at backup SF.  Frye at either backup big and they have a lot of small ball lineups including putting James at PF.  The Cavs weak point continues to be in the post with really just 3 "bigs" on the roster in Love, Thompson, and Frye.  That said, the Raptors are really the only team in the East that can realistically take advantage of that size issue (Detroit with Drummond can be problematic, but they really are only Drummond and not much else so Cleveland can minimize the Drummond advantage).  Out west the Spurs are the only team that can cause size problems for the Cavs (at least of the teams that could conceivably reach the finals).

I'd be very surprised if the Cavs are relatively healthy and aren't in the Finals again (frankly if James is healthy, they would be a tough out even without Love and Irving).  I'd favor the Warriors and possibly the Spurs against the Cavs, but wouldn't be surprised if the Cavs beat either team in a series (again assuming relative health for all teams).
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2017, 03:51:00 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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I also think they're a heavy favorite to make it back to the finals. But here is the problem for them...

Their bigs (Love and Thompson) are terrible defenders in the pick and roll. It's harder to get away with that now than it was in the recent past. The league has changed, and every team -- even the mediocre ones that Cleveland will play in rounds 1&2 -- are built to spread the floor and challenge a team's bigs to defend on the perimeter. Recall that Mozgov was playing heavy minutes for that team in the finals two years ago. Now he can't even get on the floor for one of the worst teams in the league (LAL).

So they have a less of a shot to just cruise through the East this year than they have in the past. There will be no cupcakes. Meanwhile, they're not healthy. Guys are coming back from injury, and James is nearly tops in the league in minutes per game this season.

With all that said, James always seems to find another gear in the playoffs, and I think he will this year again. Yet... the thing that makes me a bit less certain this time around is that James usually takes a strange late-season trip to Miami and comes back and tears the league apart the last few weeks of the season (mysterious!). This season he hasn't done that, and he looks tired.

In other words: this team is more vulnerable than the past couple years, but they're still the clear favorites in the East.
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2017, 03:56:55 PM »

Online Roy H.

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They're going through the motions more, but I think the overall talent is better.  I don't like the "flip the switch" mentality, but I think the Cavs can pull it off.


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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2017, 04:13:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They're going through the motions more, but I think the overall talent is better.  I don't like the "flip the switch" mentality, but I think the Cavs can pull it off.

Isn't it fair to wonder if they can flip the switch on
1) Their defense
2) Their age

Here are there rotation players age for guys you would expect to see in the playoffs
Jr Smith: 32 years
Korver: 36
Jefferson: 36 (37 in june)
James:32
Frye: 33 (34 in May)
Deron Williams: 32 (33 in June)

Love: 28 years old
Irving:25 years old
Thompson: 26 years old

As a point of comparison of our top 9 players (same amount)
Horford is our oldest at 30 years old (31 in june). They have 6 guys all older than him!

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2017, 04:28:16 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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They're going through the motions more, but I think the overall talent is better.  I don't like the "flip the switch" mentality, but I think the Cavs can pull it off.

I agree with this. The issue looks - from the outside looking in - like player engagement. They just aren't all in at the moment. Cruise control.

Whether they can flip the switch remains to be seen, but on paper that is a hell of a roster.
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2017, 04:52:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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They're going through the motions more, but I think the overall talent is better.  I don't like the "flip the switch" mentality, but I think the Cavs can pull it off.

Isn't it fair to wonder if they can flip the switch on
1) Their defense
2) Their age

Here are there rotation players age for guys you would expect to see in the playoffs
Jr Smith: 32 years
Korver: 36
Jefferson: 36 (37 in june)
James:32
Frye: 33 (34 in May)
Deron Williams: 32 (33 in June)

Love: 28 years old
Irving:25 years old
Thompson: 26 years old

As a point of comparison of our top 9 players (same amount)
Horford is our oldest at 30 years old (31 in june). They have 6 guys all older than him!
Honestly I think it is less about flipping a switch and more about staying healthy and just increasing minutes.  A lot of those old guys are backups (you also didn't include Shumpert or the other Williams who are both 25ish) and if Irving is playing 39 mpg (like he did against the Warriors), it isn't like they need a lot of minutes from Deron Williams at the point.  I think it is fair to question how big a load Smith can handle given his injuries this year (and his age), but it isn't like they don't have Shumpert, Korver, and Jefferson (or even Deron) who can all play minutes at SG. 

I mean this is the main backup at every position Deron Williams, Iman Shumpert, Kyle Korver, Derrick Williams, and Channing Frye.  That doesn't even account for Richard Jefferson who is still playing very well or Larry Sanders, who might very well give them something.  Very few teams can compete with that bench. When you add that to the best player in the world, two other all stars in their 20's, a hustle guy in his 20's, and Smith, and the Cavs are still easily the team to beat in the East.  Frankly, it would be a gigantic upset if they don't make the finals (assuming relative health). 
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2017, 05:19:18 PM »

Offline Clench123

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Anybody knows when Love is scheduled to return?
he is back already

[dang], i didn't know.  Wow.

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
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Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2017, 05:24:26 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They're going through the motions more, but I think the overall talent is better.  I don't like the "flip the switch" mentality, but I think the Cavs can pull it off.

Isn't it fair to wonder if they can flip the switch on
1) Their defense
2) Their age

Here are there rotation players age for guys you would expect to see in the playoffs
Jr Smith: 32 years
Korver: 36
Jefferson: 36 (37 in june)
James:32
Frye: 33 (34 in May)
Deron Williams: 32 (33 in June)

Love: 28 years old
Irving:25 years old
Thompson: 26 years old

As a point of comparison of our top 9 players (same amount)
Horford is our oldest at 30 years old (31 in june). They have 6 guys all older than him!
Honestly I think it is less about flipping a switch and more about staying healthy and just increasing minutes.  A lot of those old guys are backups (you also didn't include Shumpert or the other Williams who are both 25ish) and if Irving is playing 39 mpg (like he did against the Warriors), it isn't like they need a lot of minutes from Deron Williams at the point.  I think it is fair to question how big a load Smith can handle given his injuries this year (and his age), but it isn't like they don't have Shumpert, Korver, and Jefferson (or even Deron) who can all play minutes at SG. 

I mean this is the main backup at every position Deron Williams, Iman Shumpert, Kyle Korver, Derrick Williams, and Channing Frye.  That doesn't even account for Richard Jefferson who is still playing very well or Larry Sanders, who might very well give them something.  Very few teams can compete with that bench. When you add that to the best player in the world, two other all stars in their 20's, a hustle guy in his 20's, and Smith, and the Cavs are still easily the team to beat in the East.  Frankly, it would be a gigantic upset if they don't make the finals (assuming relative health).

Well I didn't include Derrick Williams because I don't think he will play in the playoffs barring injuries. He is already getting some DNP CD since Love got back in the regular season. So he can be a spring chicken on the bench. I did forget Shumpert, he is a live body they will have.

All that being said, I really think you are discounting how old this team is especially James at 32 ( who will pass Shaq and Jordan in minutes played before the end of the regular season). We are really going to expect him to just seamlessly play 40 minutes per game in the playoffs at top level after playing his most regular season minutes in several years (currently highest since his final season in Miami). Father time is undefeated and he is already getting some licks in on Lebron.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2017, 05:40:11 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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I'm going to repeat what kozlodoev said earlier. This is the 2010 Celtics all over again but to an even lesser extent. The Celtics tanked so badly in the second half of that season that I was convinced they were finished. It turned out that they had really just saved their best for the playoffs, and, had it not been for the Kendrick Perkins' injury, it would have worked. Cleveland's doing the same thing but they haven't fallen as hard as the C's did 7 years ago. They don't really care where they end up because they know that even if they got the 8th seed, they can beat any team in the east in a 7 game series. I love the Celtics as they are now and believe their best days are ahead of them, but the Cavs are still the best team in the east by a decent margin.

Lebron learned a lot from the Big 3 Celtics. Because of them, he learned that he couldn't do everything himself and he learned that the regular season doesn't have much importance compared to the playoffs. He knows that much like the Celtics were at that time, his days as the best are limited so he must save his best stuff for when it matters the most.

Pending on any injury to Lebron between now and June, the Cavs should make their third straight finals trip. The better question is, how much longer can they keep this up?

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2017, 05:58:18 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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If the game is even late in the game who are you trusting the most? I'd go with the team that has 3 All-stars on it compared to everyone else in the East. You can have a great defense all you want but the team that can put the ball in the hoop late wins.

Re: Is Cleveland more flawed this year?
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2017, 06:36:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'm going to repeat what kozlodoev said earlier. This is the 2010 Celtics all over again but to an even lesser extent. The Celtics tanked so badly in the second half of that season that I was convinced they were finished. It turned out that they had really just saved their best for the playoffs, and, had it not been for the Kendrick Perkins' injury, it would have worked. Cleveland's doing the same thing but they haven't fallen as hard as the C's did 7 years ago. They don't really care where they end up because they know that even if they got the 8th seed, they can beat any team in the east in a 7 game series. I love the Celtics as they are now and believe their best days are ahead of them, but the Cavs are still the best team in the east by a decent margin.

Lebron learned a lot from the Big 3 Celtics. Because of them, he learned that he couldn't do everything himself and he learned that the regular season doesn't have much importance compared to the playoffs. He knows that much like the Celtics were at that time, his days as the best are limited so he must save his best stuff for when it matters the most.

Pending on any injury to Lebron between now and June, the Cavs should make their third straight finals trip. The better question is, how much longer can they keep this up?

The comparison between this years team and the Celtics doesn't totally add up. Lebron has led the league in minutes most of the season at 37.5mpg and is going to end playing 74 or so games.

KG averaged less than 30 mpg in 69 games
Pierce was at 34 in 70
Allen was at 35 in 80

The Celtics were also coming off a shortened season from not being in the finals the year before. The Celtics really did take it easy that season in their mpg where Lebron has not. I would like to know what Lebron going for it entails if this is coasting....