Author Topic: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)  (Read 3947 times)

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Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2017, 02:49:27 PM »

Offline Chris22

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The refs called 28 fouls on Washington and 24 on the Celtics.
I thought they ignored a lot of hard fouls on both sides.

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2017, 03:17:06 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.

Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.


they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?

Strange was an understatement. Amir's left hand touched the net long after he blocked the shot with the right hand, it was obvious that it had no effect on the shot as it was already blocked and on the way down. They not only got it totally wrong after reviewing it, but somehow also tacked on a technical for hanging on the rim, when he never even touched the rim or hung on anything!

I think it's just that this crew was not well versed in the subtleties of manufacturing a comeback for the opposing team. They need more remedial NBA ref training

Just posted this in the game thread too, but I actually think it was the correct call.

Here's the play in question: https://streamable.com/v4kpg

And here's a very similar scenario from the NBA video rulebook explaining it.
http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/goaltending-also-technical-foul-defensive-player-grabs-net-to-block-shot/


I see what you are saying here but the net/rim touch was after the block. It didn't help with the block because it already occurred.  Another thing is they NEVER call basket interference when a player touches the net even when it may affect the shot. It is one of those things that are just overlooked unless it is blatant. That being said, this particular crew thought it should be a basket and a technical in order to try to keep Washington in the game. It's clear what the objective was on their part.

The Refs absolutely just Gave Washington 3 points on that horrible call---when they should have had ZERO points on it....the outside ref imagined that Amir blocked the shot after it hit the backboard (which it didn't)--and to make it even worse, called a Tech on him too....awful.
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Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2017, 03:29:42 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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The refs probably play the over/under quite a bit. It doesn't favor one team per se, but it does make for some bizarre, choppy performances.

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2017, 03:38:06 PM »

Offline gift

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Overall it was one of the more ridiculous games I've watched in terms of officiating. They let major, obvious calls go by to only whistle borderline calls seconds later all throughout the game, for both sides. I honestly had no clue by the fourth quarter what a foul was.

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2017, 05:50:01 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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It's a fair question that I asked myself during the game. :-\

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2017, 06:29:17 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general. 

I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though.  That could be fun.  I go with the conspiracy theory (a).  I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.

The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo

Will wait on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:35:11 PM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2017, 06:35:01 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general. 

I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though.  That could be fun.  I go with the conspiracy theory (a).  I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.

The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo

Still waiting on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...

You missed me on the first page where I split the baby and say that they could have been point-shaving, but because they're incompetent refs, they failed to move the game to the other side of the betting line.

The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff.  Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction.  Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.

So if they were point-shaving, they failed.  (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)

I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions.  A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other.  I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball.  Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2017, 06:38:06 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general. 

I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though.  That could be fun.  I go with the conspiracy theory (a).  I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.

The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo

Still waiting on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...

You missed me on the first page where I split the baby and say that they could have been point-shaving, but because they're incompetent refs, they failed to move the game to the other side of the betting line.

The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff.  Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction.  Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.

So if they were point-shaving, they failed.  (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)

I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions.  A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other.  I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball.  Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.

Yep, I just caught that.  Great thoughts, as always.  Too politically savvy, though -- if the fate of the free world depended on your providing a final answer, would you choose (a) or (b)?
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Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2017, 06:46:44 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general. 

I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though.  That could be fun.  I go with the conspiracy theory (a).  I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.

The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo

Still waiting on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...

You missed me on the first page where I split the baby and say that they could have been point-shaving, but because they're incompetent refs, they failed to move the game to the other side of the betting line.

The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff.  Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction.  Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.

So if they were point-shaving, they failed.  (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)

I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions.  A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other.  I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball.  Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.

Yep, I just caught that.  Great thoughts, as always.  Too politically savvy, though -- if the fate of the free world depended on your providing a final answer, would you choose (a) or (b)?

In general I think people are more likely to be incompetent than corrupt.  Having seen firsthand incompetence masking as corruption, I'll choose b.

EDIT: Essentially I feel that the NBA warned the refs to not let it get out of control, since there's been some bad blood brewing.  In the first half, there was a lot of hard contact and some techs called.  At halftime, the refs decided to call it tighter to prevent it from getting out of hand, and took it very far in the other direction.  Then they switched to "play on" rules in the last few minutes of the game.  So micromanaging from the league and ineffective execution of that micromanaging by the guys on the ground.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 07:01:03 PM by saltlover »

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2017, 07:34:07 PM »

Offline mctyson

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What was the point spread-?

Some pretty shady stuff going on tonight by this crew---something seemed fishy and outright crooked. Or are they actually this incompetent at their jobs-?
They seemed intent on keeping Washington in this game--even though the Wiz didn't seem to care all that much.

The answer to this is a resounding YES.

We need 4 refs for each game, two 2-man crews with one "veteran."  We need to eliminate the video reviews for everything except within 2-minute  4th quarter plays.

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2017, 12:20:19 AM »

Offline LilRip

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The weirdest call for me was Marcus Smart getting called for his 4th foul, and then 30 seconds later, reverse it and award him 2 FTs.
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Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2017, 02:38:25 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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I'm far from wearing a tinfoil hat but the second half of the 3rd on had me thinking samething. I was worried for Tommy because you knew he was thinking samething.
ok fine

Re: Were these Refs Point Shaving tonight-? (Serious question)
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2017, 08:48:14 AM »

Offline timpiker

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I doubt they were shaving points but they were worried about the game getting out of hand.  But, without a doubt, the officiating was ridiculous.  These refs get paid for this crap?  One of the worst ref'd games ever.