Poll

IT, Smart, Bradley. Who Stays After 2018?

Just IT
0 (0%)
Just Smart
9 (11.5%)
Just Bradley
0 (0%)
IT + Smart
16 (20.5%)
IT + Bradley
9 (11.5%)
Bradley + Smart
20 (25.6%)
All Three Stay
22 (28.2%)
None Of Them Stay
2 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 74

Author Topic: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult  (Read 3508 times)

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Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2017, 06:27:21 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Good to see all of them staying leading. All 3 are important in our future. It'll be expensive but worth it to keep them all

So you're fine with no max signing in the future?

I would be fine if we didn't sign a max guy this summer, although that wouldn't be my plan A. Even if we do sign a max guy, I don't view it as a simple one must go proposition.

What is the objective of signing a max guy? It doesn't do anything for our internal development approach so the assumption is it's to take a leap forward into contention right? In which case might it make more sense to keep the guard rotation that is most likely to achieve that goal? In the situation where we get Fultz and a max FA, you aren't going to count on Fultz to provide meaningful minutes. He plays in a position which takes years to fully develop in the NBA. Say you then remove Bradley, aren't you taking a step backwards when you are really wanting to move forwards? It doesn't make sense. Better almost to keep Bradley and potentially lose him for nothing in the summer, but at least you'd gone all in on a championship that year.

There is a sense of jumping the gun here though. We haven't got Fultz, we haven't signed a max FA and the odds are stacked against us in both cases. In a fairly shallow FA class, the most likely thing to happen is we draft at 3/4, sign no max FA and look to do one of 2 things with the cap space;
1) Renegotiate IT, benefitting from the fact that his salary post 2018 will be a lot lower than if we wait another year
2) We do what we did in 2015, sign a lot of 1+1 guys and take a look at 2018, a more difficult approach

We'd still be extremely well positioned to make a trade for a guy like Butler if that was what we wanted, or continue the development that has seen our wins almost triple in 3 years

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2017, 08:12:17 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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It kind of depends on how the ping pong balls unfold this summer and who they end up drafting. I assume the C's will probably take BPA so that might mean drafting Fultz or Ball with so much uncertainty at the guard spot for 2018 with IT4, Smart, and Bradley all hitting FA (Smart is RFA I believe). And I think that would be the right play to make.

The Brooklyn picks and IT have given the C's the best of 2 worlds. They have the benefit of almost guaranteed lottery picks now for 3 years in a row (Brown, 17 pick, 18 pick) but have found a player who has blossomed into an all star caliber player that also equates to winning games while giving minutes to our young players Rozier/Smart/Brown.

While I love Bradley, I think he is the odd man out in this case. He has a skill set that could fit pretty much every team in the NBA. He can play All NBA caliber defense and he has turned into a solid 3 pt shooter. You could get something good for him if you package him with some other young players/picks.

I do not think the C's management will let IT leave the Cs. That would constitute a major step back at this point and basically nullify the point of signing Horford and go against pretty much everything they have said over the past couple of seasons. I think they go after a max FA (Hayward for example), trade AB to a big/bench depth, and re-sign IT. It makes them competitive for the next 4 years and gives enough time to see how Brown and the other lottery picks mature.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2017, 08:46:15 AM »

Offline feckless

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Smart is not a starter he is a versatile defender who makes big plays --sometimes--his offense and offense choices are poor--

Bradley is the better man on man defender, compared to Smart, by quite a bit....

We must keep Bradley--Marcus is a bonus but less necessary--would be nice to keep all 3  and the improving offense off the bench of Rozier.  But all but IT should be available for the right price.

Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2017, 09:07:19 AM »

Online Smitty77

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It kind of depends on how the ping pong balls unfold this summer and who they end up drafting. I assume the C's will probably take BPA so that might mean drafting Fultz or Ball with so much uncertainty at the guard spot for 2018 with IT4, Smart, and Bradley all hitting FA (Smart is RFA I believe). And I think that would be the right play to make.

The Brooklyn picks and IT have given the C's the best of 2 worlds. They have the benefit of almost guaranteed lottery picks now for 3 years in a row (Brown, 17 pick, 18 pick) but have found a player who has blossomed into an all star caliber player that also equates to winning games while giving minutes to our young players Rozier/Smart/Brown.

While I love Bradley, I think he is the odd man out in this case. He has a skill set that could fit pretty much every team in the NBA. He can play All NBA caliber defense and he has turned into a solid 3 pt shooter. You could get something good for him if you package him with some other young players/picks.

I do not think the C's management will let IT leave the Cs. That would constitute a major step back at this point and basically nullify the point of signing Horford and go against pretty much everything they have said over the past couple of seasons. I think they go after a max FA (Hayward for example), trade AB to a big/bench depth, and re-sign IT. It makes them competitive for the next 4 years and gives enough time to see how Brown and the other lottery picks mature.

We do not have to wait until the summer to know about the lottery as NBA Draft Lottery is on May 16:-))

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/when-is-the-nba-draft-2017-date-time-other-key-nba-dates/

Summer begins on June 21st!!

Smitty77

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2017, 09:40:20 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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It kind of depends on how the ping pong balls unfold this summer and who they end up drafting. I assume the C's will probably take BPA so that might mean drafting Fultz or Ball with so much uncertainty at the guard spot for 2018 with IT4, Smart, and Bradley all hitting FA (Smart is RFA I believe). And I think that would be the right play to make.

The Brooklyn picks and IT have given the C's the best of 2 worlds. They have the benefit of almost guaranteed lottery picks now for 3 years in a row (Brown, 17 pick, 18 pick) but have found a player who has blossomed into an all star caliber player that also equates to winning games while giving minutes to our young players Rozier/Smart/Brown.

While I love Bradley, I think he is the odd man out in this case. He has a skill set that could fit pretty much every team in the NBA. He can play All NBA caliber defense and he has turned into a solid 3 pt shooter. You could get something good for him if you package him with some other young players/picks.

I do not think the C's management will let IT leave the Cs. That would constitute a major step back at this point and basically nullify the point of signing Horford and go against pretty much everything they have said over the past couple of seasons. I think they go after a max FA (Hayward for example), trade AB to a big/bench depth, and re-sign IT. It makes them competitive for the next 4 years and gives enough time to see how Brown and the other lottery picks mature.

We do not have to wait until the summer to know about the lottery as NBA Draft Lottery is on May 16:-))

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/when-is-the-nba-draft-2017-date-time-other-key-nba-dates/

Summer begins on June 21st!!

Smitty77
Touche

Yes, I meant lottery day. The 4th pick overall might change things as opposed to the number 1.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2017, 11:01:14 AM »

Offline td450

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I think it is crazy to say Bradley is the odd man out and we should keep Smart, especially if we get Fultz or Ball. Smart is unlikely to ever become a plus offensive player, and while he is a very versatile defender, I'm pretty sure Fultz/Ball and Jaylen Brown will be a better choice for those minutes within the next year.

Bradley is far more valuable. I know he will cost more, but thats what happens when someone is better.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2017, 11:58:24 AM »

Offline No Nickname

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Bradley stays.  Danny deals Rozier.  And Fultz/Ball take Rozier's minutes.  Neither one will start on this team next year but can learn from IT/MS/AB. 

Eventually if Fultz/Ball show they should be getting starter's minutes then one of those three might be traded, but not for another year.

Don't forget that these guys get injured.  It's not like they're always available.  Expect at least one of those three of IT/MS/AB to be injured.  So Fultz/Ball will fill in as the third guard in those scenarios.  And not just point guard.  But third guard with these guys sliding from PG to SG depending on who's in the game.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2017, 12:41:25 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Bradley stays.  Danny deals Rozier.  And Fultz/Ball take Rozier's minutes.  Neither one will start on this team next year but can learn from IT/MS/AB. 

Eventually if Fultz/Ball show they should be getting starter's minutes then one of those three might be traded, but not for another year.

Don't forget that these guys get injured.  It's not like they're always available.  Expect at least one of those three of IT/MS/AB to be injured.  So Fultz/Ball will fill in as the third guard in those scenarios.  And not just point guard.  But third guard with these guys sliding from PG to SG depending on who's in the game.
Despite Smart Bradley and Thomas missing a combined 31 games, Terry Rozier has still only managed 16.3 minutes per game. Then understand that Jaylen Brown's role should grow and that Markelle Fultz should be the best rookie guard since Kyrie Irving.

The numbers dont quite add up. Playing Markelle Fultz under 20 minutes a game would be unwise.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Bradley stays.  Danny deals Rozier.  And Fultz/Ball take Rozier's minutes.  Neither one will start on this team next year but can learn from IT/MS/AB. 

Eventually if Fultz/Ball show they should be getting starter's minutes then one of those three might be traded, but not for another year.

Don't forget that these guys get injured.  It's not like they're always available.  Expect at least one of those three of IT/MS/AB to be injured.  So Fultz/Ball will fill in as the third guard in those scenarios.  And not just point guard.  But third guard with these guys sliding from PG to SG depending on who's in the game.
Despite Smart Bradley and Thomas missing a combined 31 games, Terry Rozier has still only managed 16.3 minutes per game. Then understand that Jaylen Brown's role should grow and that Markelle Fultz should be the best rookie guard since Kyrie Irving.

The numbers dont quite add up. Playing Markelle Fultz under 20 minutes a game would be unwise.

Playing Fultz or another rookie 15-20mpg seems ok to me, especially early in the season.

If his play warrants more minutes, he gets them, but cross that bridge when we get to it.

It's an unusual situation, remember, for a top pick to go to a good team. We shouldn't have any preconceptions about what would be wise or unwise based on the fact that most #1 picks play big minutes.

And heck, if he's absolutely killing it, you can just trade one of those guys at the deadline.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2017, 01:17:20 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The thing that concerns me is that the C's are 5 points better with Smart on the floor compared to Bradley. Bradley's net +/- is -2, and Smart's is +3.

If it weren't for that, I'd have no hesitation in saying we should pick AB over Smart, for all the reasons people list above.

I suppose there's hope that we might keep both, if Bradley's market doesn't pan out and we strike out in FA. We could re-sign him.



And yet the Celtics most used lineup, in terms of games and minutes played, features Avery Bradley, and not Marcus Smart.  Simply substituting Smart for Bradley in that lineup results in a - 0.9 net point differential.

But as a point of reference, Boston only has five 5-man lineups that have played at least 20 games this season.  Four of those lineups feature Smart, two of them Bradley.  Both of the lineups that feature Bradley have positive point differentials, while only two of the four lineups that feature Smart have a positive point differential, and one of them also features Bradley.

This tells me Bradley has been the more impactful player, and that's Smart's overall better net point differential is boosted by the fact he has played more of his time against bench units.  This is substantiated by the fact Smart is featured in more overall lineups, but that none of them have played significant minutes or games together, which is usually the case with bench units.

If there was one knock against Bradley, and it's not an insignificant knock, it's that he has trouble staying healthy.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2017, 01:23:02 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Bradley stays.  Danny deals Rozier.  And Fultz/Ball take Rozier's minutes.  Neither one will start on this team next year but can learn from IT/MS/AB. 

Eventually if Fultz/Ball show they should be getting starter's minutes then one of those three might be traded, but not for another year.

Don't forget that these guys get injured.  It's not like they're always available.  Expect at least one of those three of IT/MS/AB to be injured.  So Fultz/Ball will fill in as the third guard in those scenarios.  And not just point guard.  But third guard with these guys sliding from PG to SG depending on who's in the game.
Despite Smart Bradley and Thomas missing a combined 31 games, Terry Rozier has still only managed 16.3 minutes per game. Then understand that Jaylen Brown's role should grow and that Markelle Fultz should be the best rookie guard since Kyrie Irving.

The numbers dont quite add up. Playing Markelle Fultz under 20 minutes a game would be unwise.

Playing Fultz or another rookie 15-20mpg seems ok to me, especially early in the season.

If his play warrants more minutes, he gets them, but cross that bridge when we get to it.

It's an unusual situation, remember, for a top pick to go to a good team. We shouldn't have any preconceptions about what would be wise or unwise based on the fact that most #1 picks play big minutes.

And heck, if he's absolutely killing it, you can just trade one of those guys at the deadline.
I believe Markelle Fultz will prove to be more than deserving of 20 mpg. He should be MUCH better than Jaylen Brown is this year.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2017, 01:33:23 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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Bradley stays.  Danny deals Rozier.  And Fultz/Ball take Rozier's minutes.  Neither one will start on this team next year but can learn from IT/MS/AB. 

Eventually if Fultz/Ball show they should be getting starter's minutes then one of those three might be traded, but not for another year.

Don't forget that these guys get injured.  It's not like they're always available.  Expect at least one of those three of IT/MS/AB to be injured.  So Fultz/Ball will fill in as the third guard in those scenarios.  And not just point guard.  But third guard with these guys sliding from PG to SG depending on who's in the game.
Despite Smart Bradley and Thomas missing a combined 31 games, Terry Rozier has still only managed 16.3 minutes per game. Then understand that Jaylen Brown's role should grow and that Markelle Fultz should be the best rookie guard since Kyrie Irving.

The numbers dont quite add up. Playing Markelle Fultz under 20 minutes a game would be unwise.

Playing Fultz or another rookie 15-20mpg seems ok to me, especially early in the season.

If his play warrants more minutes, he gets them, but cross that bridge when we get to it.

It's an unusual situation, remember, for a top pick to go to a good team. We shouldn't have any preconceptions about what would be wise or unwise based on the fact that most #1 picks play big minutes.

And heck, if he's absolutely killing it, you can just trade one of those guys at the deadline.

Exactly.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2017, 05:51:37 PM »

Offline Greyman

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The thing that concerns me is that the C's are 5 points better with Smart on the floor compared to Bradley. Bradley's net +/- is -2, and Smart's is +3.

If it weren't for that, I'd have no hesitation in saying we should pick AB over Smart, for all the reasons people list above.

I suppose there's hope that we might keep both, if Bradley's market doesn't pan out and we strike out in FA. We could re-sign him.



And yet the Celtics most used lineup, in terms of games and minutes played, features Avery Bradley, and not Marcus Smart.  Simply substituting Smart for Bradley in that lineup results in a - 0.9 net point differential.

But as a point of reference, Boston only has five 5-man lineups that have played at least 20 games this season.  Four of those lineups feature Smart, two of them Bradley.  Both of the lineups that feature Bradley have positive point differentials, while only two of the four lineups that feature Smart have a positive point differential, and one of them also features Bradley.

This tells me Bradley has been the more impactful player, and that's Smart's overall better net point differential is boosted by the fact he has played more of his time against bench units.  This is substantiated by the fact Smart is featured in more overall lineups, but that none of them have played significant minutes or games together, which is usually the case with bench units.

If there was one knock against Bradley, and it's not an insignificant knock, it's that he has trouble staying healthy.

TP  Avery is preferred by CBS against the opposition's best players for a reason. Pretty good judge Stevens is. Avery is a consistent scorer who keeps adding to his average ppg. Smart is hot and cold in a way that will limit his opportunities, no matter how good he is in other aspects, until he becomes consistent.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2017, 11:48:56 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So we've seen how this team is without IT. Without him this is a lottery team.

Anyone's opinions on this matter change or anything?

I know this is a very small sample size, but C's are 2-5 without IT and could have been 1-6 if not for Crowder/Horford in the Brooklyn game.

Reality is there is no one else on this team who can create their own offense like IT can (and Evan Turner could - we didn't really replace him when he left), and there's no other legit 22+ PPG scorer as well.

Re: Bradley Is Making "Decision 2018" Difficult
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2017, 09:13:27 PM »

Offline The One

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Bradley's looking great tonight!

Since the All Star break, it's Marcus who is on the outside looking in.