Author Topic: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?  (Read 1198 times)

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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 09:06:32 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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The Ibaka trade was crazy at the time. Think you really have to get lucky with a trade like that one. The Hornets deal mentioned makes sense. I wouldn't put it past DA to get Cousins from Pelicans at a crazier lower price than what Pelicans paid. Something like AB, Wolves aecond and C's 2018 1st. This is due to Cousins not making an impact on wins early on and real worries about him staying there.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 09:15:15 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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What about Dieng and the Minny 1st for Bradley and a couple of our seconds? They get a defensive stopper than Tibs would love who can help space the floor. They are projected for 10th right now, but with their recent strong play they may get a little higher (11-12th maybe?)

Obviously salary filler may have to be thrown in, but it could be an interesting package.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 10:12:18 AM »

Offline td450

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not. If we were to get Fultz or Ball, I do agree someone should be moved, and my guess is it has more to do with what is offered rather than who we want to move.

If we get a prospect like Fultz, I'd rather move Marcus than Bradley. I know he is 3 1/2 years younger and I love the guy, but he has a very long way to go on offense, and it is entirely possible he never gets there.

Bradley is already a very good offensive player and our best stretch shooter. He also can cover people no one else can, including Marcus. Marcus is an amazing defender, but Jaylen Brown will be able to handle many of the same types of assignments.

I also see no reason to sign a very good player like Hayward if it means we have to get 50 cents on the dollar for a really good player like Bradley, Smart or Crowder. The only free agent that is worth doing that for that might be available is Blake Griffin.

In case anyone has noticed, having Stevens matters, and having the same guys stay together is resulting in fairly steady development all around. Bradley, Smart and Crowder have all proven they listen and grow in this system. We've got an investment here and we should see it through, unless we can get a top 10 guy.




Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2017, 10:30:47 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.

Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2017, 10:38:08 AM »

Offline showtime

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.
  Agree!!

Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2017, 10:49:02 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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No, we won't.  Presti took advantage of a unique situation with Rob Hennigan needing his team to perform to likely keep his job, and there are simpy less skilled 2-way 6'9" guys than 6'3" guys.  Also, if we are to believe DA (though who is to say if it's true), teams are lowballing us for our 'assets'.

That said, he's a first team all defender who can now rebound like a forward, hit 3's and create his own shot.  He's one of 3 guys on our team who can create his own shot, with IT and Jaylen (and maybe Rozier but he isn't too good at hitting the shots he creates).  I would hope we could get a solid return on him if we decide that Smart is the guy we want to hold onto long term.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2017, 10:51:22 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.
  Agree!!

It's not that simple.  You wouldn't get rid of Crowder before AB because Crowder makes like 7mm a year and Bradley is going to make 2.5-3x that amount.  And one reason people may not appreciate Bradley like they should (he is extremely good) and something I can't exactly figure out is that the team is just as effective without him as they are with him, at least regular season.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2017, 10:51:56 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Let me clarify something. IF we are able to hold onto Bradley long term, I think a rotation of Fultz/Bradley/Smart would be phenomenal.

But if we are moving on from him, I honestly think Minny is a good trade partner.
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4.) Jayson Tatum                        move the needle much
5.) Lauri Markkanen

Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2017, 11:03:56 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.
  Agree!!

It's not that simple.  You wouldn't get rid of Crowder before AB because Crowder makes like 7mm a year and Bradley is going to make 2.5-3x that amount.  And one reason people may not appreciate Bradley like they should (he is extremely good) and something I can't exactly figure out is that the team is just as effective without him as they are with him, at least regular season.

The team is definitely not as good without Bradley on the court. Did you not see the recent stretch of games he missed, and how obvious his absence was?

Bradley's impact on this team is huge. Maybe more so than even Horford.

As far as the money issue, well, I'm of the opinion it shouldn't matter. If it means we have to pay for luxury tax, well, pay the [dang] tax. I hate cheap sports owners. And considering the Celtics are one of the most valuable NBA franchises they can afford to pay the lux tax for a few years while competing for championships.

Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2017, 11:06:12 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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No, we won't.  Presti took advantage of a unique situation with Rob Hennigan needing his team to perform to likely keep his job, and there are simpy less skilled 2-way 6'9" guys than 6'3" guys.  Also, if we are to believe DA (though who is to say if it's true), teams are lowballing us for our 'assets'.

That said, he's a first team all defender who can now rebound like a forward, hit 3's and create his own shot.  He's one of 3 guys on our team who can create his own shot, with IT and Jaylen (and maybe Rozier but he isn't too good at hitting the shots he creates).  I would hope we could get a solid return on him if we decide that Smart is the guy we want to hold onto long term.
That wasn't a unique situation. There will always be GMs looking to save their jobs. Dell Demps is one that springs to mind, the Phoenix guy may well be another soon. Danny took advantage of Billy King in the same way.

In this situation I don't think Danny has a desire to downgrade from Bradley to a rookie scale guy and a pick. Because that is what happened in OKC, they downgraded their roster in that trade. They decided they weren't going to pay Ibaka and got value while they could. It might have played into Durant's FA thinking as well, seeing his team be unwilling to commit to his teammates. Danny isn't downgrading this roster, he'll pay Bradley.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2017, 11:11:47 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.
  Agree!!

It's not that simple.  You wouldn't get rid of Crowder before AB because Crowder makes like 7mm a year and Bradley is going to make 2.5-3x that amount.  And one reason people may not appreciate Bradley like they should (he is extremely good) and something I can't exactly figure out is that the team is just as effective without him as they are with him, at least regular season.

The team is definitely not as good without Bradley on the court. Did you not see the recent stretch of games he missed, and how obvious his absence was?

Bradley's impact on this team is huge. Maybe more so than even Horford.

As far as the money issue, well, I'm of the opinion it shouldn't matter. If it means we have to pay for luxury tax, well, pay the [dang] tax. I hate cheap sports owners. And considering the Celtics are one of the most valuable NBA franchises they can afford to pay the lux tax for a few years while competing for championships.
well technically we are better without him. 3.1 points per 100 possessions better to be exact.

We are 15-8 without him on the season for a .652 win percentage
With him, we are 28-17 for a .622 win percentage

There are a ton of other factors here, and I agree that AB is a good player(better than Smart) who helps us win, I just think these stats are interesting to look at.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 11:37:01 AM »

Offline td450

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.
  Agree!!

It's not that simple.  You wouldn't get rid of Crowder before AB because Crowder makes like 7mm a year and Bradley is going to make 2.5-3x that amount.  And one reason people may not appreciate Bradley like they should (he is extremely good) and something I can't exactly figure out is that the team is just as effective without him as they are with him, at least regular season.

C's fans need to understand something about Crowder's great contract. It's only great if he plugs into a starter slot, so we get to avoid paying another starter big money because of it.

If he's just another guy on the team, and we are paying Gordon Hayward max or near max, it doesn't do us any good to speak of.


Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2017, 11:52:41 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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I'm encouraged by the fact that Ainge seems to value Bradley appropriately, even if many on this board do not.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I get that Bradley has had a hard time staying healthy but he is hands down, far and away our best defensive player. Jae and Marcus are good defenders themselves, but they don't hold a candle to Bradley. And Bradley is also a clearly better offensive player as well.

If he has to be part of a trade package for a super star, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I really hope he is going to be part of our long term plans. I realize he will be a free agent soon, but he deserves the payday he is likely to get, and I hope Ainge pays Bradley his due. Quite frankly, I'd much rather trade Smart or Crowder before I let Bradley go.
  Agree!!

It's not that simple.  You wouldn't get rid of Crowder before AB because Crowder makes like 7mm a year and Bradley is going to make 2.5-3x that amount.  And one reason people may not appreciate Bradley like they should (he is extremely good) and something I can't exactly figure out is that the team is just as effective without him as they are with him, at least regular season.

C's fans need to understand something about Crowder's great contract. It's only great if he plugs into a starter slot, so we get to avoid paying another starter big money because of it.

If he's just another guy on the team, and we are paying Gordon Hayward max or near max, it doesn't do us any good to speak of.

That is completely incorrect. Crowder's contract is great whether he starts or comes off the bench. The ~$7 million he's due for the next 3+ years is a tiny portion of the cap (even less than the mid level exception) and he by far outperforms it. Having a guy that can be your 6th man getting paid less than the MLE is huge for a team that will be over the cap/into the luxury tax.

Just look at what the Warriors have been paying their 6th man: iguadola gets $11 million a year. And the Cavs? $9.8 million for Shumpert and $7.8 million for Frye. Having a guy that's as good or better than the the 6th men for those teams getting payed less is a huge help to our future cap.
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Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2017, 11:57:57 AM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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Why does everyone want to trade Bradley? He is such an under appreciated player.

Why aren't there more threads about how we can re-sign the guy? 

Honestly.

I've noticed that too but I've also fallen into that trap myself. He just feels like the odd man out of the IT/Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Brown group that fills up our 1-3 rotation. Especially if we get a top 2 pick and take another guard.

It's the combo of being able to bring value in a trade, but being near his ceiling, somewhat injury prone, and close to a major contract. His excellent on-court contributions sometimes get forgotten in the discussion, though.

Re: Could the C's get as much for Bradley as OKC got for Ibaka?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2017, 12:11:48 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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No, we won't.  Presti took advantage of a unique situation with Rob Hennigan needing his team to perform to likely keep his job, and there are simpy less skilled 2-way 6'9" guys than 6'3" guys.  Also, if we are to believe DA (though who is to say if it's true), teams are lowballing us for our 'assets'.

That said, he's a first team all defender who can now rebound like a forward, hit 3's and create his own shot.  He's one of 3 guys on our team who can create his own shot, with IT and Jaylen (and maybe Rozier but he isn't too good at hitting the shots he creates).  I would hope we could get a solid return on him if we decide that Smart is the guy we want to hold onto long term.
That wasn't a unique situation. There will always be GMs looking to save their jobs. Dell Demps is one that springs to mind, the Phoenix guy may well be another soon. Danny took advantage of Billy King in the same way.

In this situation I don't think Danny has a desire to downgrade from Bradley to a rookie scale guy and a pick. Because that is what happened in OKC, they downgraded their roster in that trade. They decided they weren't going to pay Ibaka and got value while they could. It might have played into Durant's FA thinking as well, seeing his team be unwilling to commit to his teammates. Danny isn't downgrading this roster, he'll pay Bradley.

Besides a draft pick, who are Dell Demps and the Phoenix guy going to trade us that you would want?  You're not getting AD, Cousins, Booker, Chriss.  I agree there will be GMs looking to save their jobs but if AB had as much value as Ibaka, don't you think he's be viewed as more than a throw in on a deal for Jimmy Butler, who is barely leading him team to a playoff spot in the East?

I'm not sure how you can be so confident we'll pay Bradley.  If we sign a big free agent this summer sure, because in that order we can go over the cap to keep our guys.  But if we don't and DA has to pay 60mm+ per year to keep IT/AB/Smart, I'm not sure how you know AB will be kept when yes, the team has done better without him.  As I said, he's a great player and I don't know how they've done better, but it's better to trade him than to let him walk.  And if you trade him, you might have to downgrade in the short term if that's the best offer, because the best offer is probably better than getting nothing unless you use the money saved on another guy or a FA.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish