Author Topic: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?  (Read 3314 times)

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Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2017, 06:06:54 PM »

Online BitterJim

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I just think it's lazy/not prepared or whatever

because if you were aiming high and missed (Butler, PG13)....why not have secondary trade situations ready

I refuse to believe Johnson, Zeller, Young, all 2017 2nds (and worst case a non lotto future 1st) couldn't return you a PF/C talent that is at least an upgrade over Johnson/Zeller

Heck i would love to have Mason Plumlee neutralizing Jordan, Valenciunas, Gortat etc.   this could mean 3,4 extra wins, higher seed,  longer chance to remain in the playoffs

Of course we had the assets to do something minor.  But we didn't, not because Danny is lazy or wasn't ready for the deadline, but because Danny didn't want to give up those assets.  You're attributing everything to laziness when it's very easily explained as him not wanting to give up future assets for a short-term fix
I'm bitter.

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 06:22:30 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I just think it's lazy/not prepared or whatever

because if you were aiming high and missed (Butler, PG13)....why not have secondary trade situations ready

I refuse to believe Johnson, Zeller, Young, all 2017 2nds (and worst case a non lotto future 1st) couldn't return you a PF/C talent that is at least an upgrade over Johnson/Zeller

Heck i would love to have Mason Plumlee neutralizing Jordan, Valenciunas, Gortat etc.   this could mean 3,4 extra wins, higher seed,  longer chance to remain in the playoffs

Nobody is really arguing against that. Most people agree that Ainge could have easily gotten a PF/C for a non-lottery future 1st and Zeller, Young etc. The argument is that it wasnt worth it, because it wouldn't get us past the Cavs, and would cost us our cap space this summer, all for someone who would not be as good as Zizic who we already have on a rookie salary and doesnt cost any assets.

so why even try this season if the "attitude" is going to be that way

why not just be happy with the 8th seed?

even from a businessman standpoint...not making a move (even if it makes the team only incrementally better)  so that you can get as far as you can in the playoffs (make more money) ....does not make sense

a pf/c or short term contract for fill ins , young, all 2017 2nds... even for a rental PF/C... doesn't that make sense?

We have lost what, 4 out of 6 games now just because this little "move" was not made ... not saying we would have won all 4, but maybe 2, 3...

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 06:29:51 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I just think it's lazy/not prepared or whatever

because if you were aiming high and missed (Butler, PG13)....why not have secondary trade situations ready

I refuse to believe Johnson, Zeller, Young, all 2017 2nds (and worst case a non lotto future 1st) couldn't return you a PF/C talent that is at least an upgrade over Johnson/Zeller

Heck i would love to have Mason Plumlee neutralizing Jordan, Valenciunas, Gortat etc.   this could mean 3,4 extra wins, higher seed,  longer chance to remain in the playoffs

Nobody is really arguing against that. Most people agree that Ainge could have easily gotten a PF/C for a non-lottery future 1st and Zeller, Young etc. The argument is that it wasnt worth it, because it wouldn't get us past the Cavs, and would cost us our cap space this summer, all for someone who would not be as good as Zizic who we already have on a rookie salary and doesnt cost any assets.

so why even try this season if the "attitude" is going to be that way

why not just be happy with the 8th seed?

even from a businessman standpoint...not making a move (even if it makes the team only incrementally better)  so that you can get as far as you can in the playoffs (make more money) ....does not make sense

a pf/c or short term contract for fill ins , young, all 2017 2nds... even for a rental PF/C... doesn't that make sense?

We have lost what, 4 out of 6 games now just because this little "move" was not made ... not saying we would have won all 4, but maybe 2, 3...

Probably because they are confident they can get two stars this summer with the cap space and assets and become a legit perennial contender rather than a team that is out in the 1st or 2nd round every year. It is also further evidence that ownership cares more about long term winning than making money, which is why the franchise is doing so well overall.

The playoffs this season will get our core group playoff experience together, help develop our young guys, and highlight some of our prospects.

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 06:37:37 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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I just think it's lazy/not prepared or whatever

because if you were aiming high and missed (Butler, PG13)....why not have secondary trade situations ready

I refuse to believe Johnson, Zeller, Young, all 2017 2nds (and worst case a non lotto future 1st) couldn't return you a PF/C talent that is at least an upgrade over Johnson/Zeller

Heck i would love to have Mason Plumlee neutralizing Jordan, Valenciunas, Gortat etc.   this could mean 3,4 extra wins, higher seed,  longer chance to remain in the playoffs

Nobody is really arguing against that. Most people agree that Ainge could have easily gotten a PF/C for a non-lottery future 1st and Zeller, Young etc. The argument is that it wasnt worth it, because it wouldn't get us past the Cavs, and would cost us our cap space this summer, all for someone who would not be as good as Zizic who we already have on a rookie salary and doesnt cost any assets.

You can also say that he didn't want to give up assets that he would have needed to make a Butler or PG13 trade to work, even if it was just money wise.

And most of the players that were available were off the board once Chi and Indy decided to back out. And teams aren't going to wait for DA to get done with his first options, so having secondary deals in place not really realistic.

 And even if he did, teams probably didn't want o wait. Butler came off the board at 2ish and PG13 at 2:30. Teams moved on from DA if that was the case so they could help their teams out, they could give a rats back side about what DA needs.

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 06:48:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I just think it's lazy/not prepared or whatever

because if you were aiming high and missed (Butler, PG13)....why not have secondary trade situations ready

I refuse to believe Johnson, Zeller, Young, all 2017 2nds (and worst case a non lotto future 1st) couldn't return you a PF/C talent that is at least an upgrade over Johnson/Zeller

Heck i would love to have Mason Plumlee neutralizing Jordan, Valenciunas, Gortat etc.   this could mean 3,4 extra wins, higher seed,  longer chance to remain in the playoffs

Nobody is really arguing against that. Most people agree that Ainge could have easily gotten a PF/C for a non-lottery future 1st and Zeller, Young etc. The argument is that it wasnt worth it, because it wouldn't get us past the Cavs, and would cost us our cap space this summer, all for someone who would not be as good as Zizic who we already have on a rookie salary and doesnt cost any assets.

so why even try this season if the "attitude" is going to be that way

why not just be happy with the 8th seed?

even from a businessman standpoint...not making a move (even if it makes the team only incrementally better)  so that you can get as far as you can in the playoffs (make more money) ....does not make sense

a pf/c or short term contract for fill ins , young, all 2017 2nds... even for a rental PF/C... doesn't that make sense?

We have lost what, 4 out of 6 games now just because this little "move" was not made ... not saying we would have won all 4, but maybe 2, 3...
You're right. We could have traded for Bogut and then we would have won all those games!!! Oh wait...Bogut would have broken his leg.... nevermind! Assuming we would have won any games we lost since the trade deadline if we would have just made a trade, any trade, is speculative nonsense based on nothing but your hopes and dreams.

Triboy, Ainge did what he thought was in the best interest of this team, both short and long term. The reasons nothing happened are most likely numerous. And one could be that other teams didn't want to trade the players Danny wanted, including those secondary options you are so convinced he could have gotten. You need two people to make a trade. Danny didn't find one even though I am sure he made every attempt to.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 06:57:09 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 06:51:58 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Saying Ainge was "lazy" would imply he made no effort (i.e. entertained zero trade discussions).  That clearly wasn't the case.

Ainge may have over-valued his assets, may have been unreasonable in his offering price, or may have placed greater importance on the future as opposed to the present, but lazy he was not.

Isn't that assessment just as speculative?

Not unless you ignore every media report about Danny constantly being involved in negotiations.

The man may have a different vision than many of us, but he's not mailing it in.

I don't think Ainge was or ever has been lazy.  But countering with he "may have overvalued assets" or "was unreasonable in his offers" is every bit as speculative.  One doesn't hold more water than the other.

In my unfounded speculation, Ainge is getting too cute in his rebuild, or has unrealistic expectations for the future.


Yes, I was speculating as to the reasons Ainge decided not to make any moves at the trade deadline, thus the use of the phrase "may have", which by nature is speculative.

I am not speculating as to whether Ainge was lazy or not.  Ainge put in the effort, it was well reported in the media, he was not lazy in going about his job.

To be fair, the Celtics have been involved in trade rumors for years in part because of all the assets they've accumulated, so it's tough to assess the validity of media reports.  I don't think any one could have predicted the Celtics had zero interest in Cousins, for example, but that's what was reported out of Boston following the trade.  We're probably aware of only a fraction of all that goes on behind the scenes. 
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Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2017, 11:35:23 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Ok , I get it he didn't want to give up potential top 2 picks for the 2017, 2018 drafts plus Brown for Butler or PG13 ...  maybe these teams were not interested in trading these players anyways

BUT

you have too many other draft picks,  plus Johnson , Zeller salaries (tailor made for trading purposes),  James Young (uncertain future with the team) ....and you couldn't get one or two guys (bigs) to help the team finish off the season strong/for the playoffs??

Recently most of the games the Celts lost to, were against teams that have one or two big players that were the difference makers.... 

Just hoarding all of these non lotto picks/assets ........... can someone explain?

Please listen to what the guy says when he talks about deadline deals.  He is on record that his view of deadline deals are neutral, at best.  They have a staunch analytics department that I am sure has reviewed every deadline deal in NBA history and come to the conclusion that they rarely make a difference.

Which is obvious...why would anyone who is worth anything get traded in the middle of the season?

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2017, 11:50:10 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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Saying Ainge was "lazy" would imply he made no effort (i.e. entertained zero trade discussions).  That clearly wasn't the case.

Ainge may have over-valued his assets, may have been unreasonable in his offering price, or may have placed greater importance on the future as opposed to the present, but lazy he was not.

you sure?

Package  Johnson, Zeller, Young and all the 2017 2nds (or a future non lotto 1st)

and he could not obtain a decent front court player that can somewhat neutralize the likes of Jordan, Jokic, Valenciuanas etc. ??

If keeping all the 2017 2nds  is not considered 'hoarding' then what is?
i think you addressed a post that wasnt made. KGK challenged your point on ainge being lazy. it would be more appropriate for you to address that.
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Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2017, 06:25:45 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Lazy? The only thing we know is he didn't do anything. We don't know if he tried. But considering what has happened with key injuries to Love, Aldridge and KD, the Celtics missed an opportunity at the deadline to be in the hunt for home court and a deep playoff finish. It doesn't look like they have the horses right now to do that. But you never know.

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 06:34:38 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Lazy is the opposite term I would use to refer to Danny Ainge's work attitude, and it includes this season, of course.

As some people have said, he assumed there was no way to win the title this year, so wasting ANY asset would be nonsense. I can kindly remind some of the people who have suggested to have traded non-lotto firsts for rentals that next year a non-lotto first is coming to Boston.

Ante Zizic is his name.

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2017, 11:11:47 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Ok , I get it he didn't want to give up potential top 2 picks for the 2017, 2018 drafts plus Brown for Butler or PG13 ...  maybe these teams were not interested in trading these players anyways

BUT

you have too many other draft picks,  plus Johnson , Zeller salaries (tailor made for trading purposes),  James Young (uncertain future with the team) ....and you couldn't get one or two guys (bigs) to help the team finish off the season strong/for the playoffs??

Recently most of the games the Celts lost to, were against teams that have one or two big players that were the difference makers.... 

Just hoarding all of these non lotto picks/assets ........... can someone explain?

I'm also perplexed by this.

First off I think the Celtics are build to compete with one specific team.  They match up extremely well with Golden State and could produce a competitive series against them.

But what does that matter if they can't get past the Cavs in the East?  The Celtics have absolutely no answer for Tristan Thompson or Kevin Love...   It SEEMS like the Celtics plan is to win a small ball series against the Cavs, BUT the Celtics don't hit the three well enough to win a small ball match against the Cavs (Cavs are second in the NBA in 3%).   

They also don't rebound well enough to win a defensive series against the Cavs - the Cavs are better in Offensive rebound %, Defensive Rebound %, Team Rebounds, and Total Rebounds, but are just middle of the pack in these areas where the Celtics are in the bottom third of the league in every category.  They've left this unaddressed for 3 years... This year they let both Nerlens Noel, and Jusif Nurkic get picked up by other teams for peanuts.  Both of those guys could have helped a lot in a Cavs series that is going to come down to defensive stops, toughness, and rebounding. Meanwhile, Ainge literally traded 2 second rounders for 1 future second round last season AND drafted two players in the first round solely because they agreed to be stashed for a year.  Simply put, the Celtics don't even have room to roster all their future picks.       

I don't know if Ainge was lazy, but he definitely let an opportunity slip by this year by not trading SOME of his draft picks for players that could have either started or solidified the bench. 

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2017, 03:00:08 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Saying Ainge was "lazy" would imply he made no effort (i.e. entertained zero trade discussions).  That clearly wasn't the case.

Ainge may have over-valued his assets, may have been unreasonable in his offering price, or may have placed greater importance on the future as opposed to the present, but lazy he was not.

Isn't that assessment just as speculative?
No. Because Ainge has a track record, and there were a lot of leaks about 2 big deals he was working on.

Lazy is a silly place to go for a criticism. Knee is correct. If you want to criticize him, criticize him on overvaluing assets.

Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2017, 03:03:41 AM »

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Saying Ainge was "lazy" would imply he made no effort (i.e. entertained zero trade discussions).  That clearly wasn't the case.

Ainge may have over-valued his assets, may have been unreasonable in his offering price, or may have placed greater importance on the future as opposed to the present, but lazy he was not.

Isn't that assessment just as speculative?
No. Because Ainge has a track record, and there were a lot of leaks about 2 big deals he was working on.

Lazy is a silly place to go for a criticism. Knee is correct. If you want to criticize him, criticize him on overvaluing assets.

I think he was trying to land BOTH Butler AND Paul George...using a BK pick in each deal....2017 for PG, 2018 for Butler---but I bet both teams wanted the 2017. Or Bird wanted both picks...Oh well, draft night should be entertaining.
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Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2017, 12:24:27 PM »

Offline TheOneTrueRobb

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Is Pitino still available? 'cause we could bring him back, and he can once again flail around making dumbass trades just to make dumbass trades.

Or, we can patiently build a repeat winner, disdain the quickie feel-good "blockbuster" that mortgages away the future*, and enjoy the result when it finally happens - and I have no doubt that it will. IF the right trade comes along, I trust Ainge to make it. If it's not on the table, I trust Ainge to pass it by.

I trust Ainge. He's earned it....



* Billups for K. Anderson, anyone? Bueller?
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Re: Ainge lazy on the trade deadline?
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2017, 01:22:57 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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He is not lazy. Many GM's are scared to make a deal with him. Do you think Denver even called Danny? I saw no rumor. We just need one more star and rebounder to make it out of the East. We want it all now but tomorrow's coming!!!
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