Is Shaq really a Hall of Fame 'basketballer'?

[coffee425]

LOL

I guess Tom Brady wouldn't be a HOFer if you strip away his achievements as well. I mean, did you see his 40 time, not an all-timer

[Fan from VT]

Yes.

Skill and athletic traits do not exist in isolation.

Size in general is an advantage in basketball. However, mechanically, all skills of basketball generally become more difficult as you get bigger. It is more difficult to move from standing to full speed if you are bigger, more difficult to jump quickly, more difficult to move laterally if you are bigger and heavier. When dribbling, the ball has to go further, more opportunity for steals and mis-dribbling.

So, yes, if Shaq the brain was shorter and the exact same skill level, he wouldn't be a hall of famer. But you can't isolate that into a bubble. If he were shorter, he might also be lighter, quicker lift, quicker lateral movement, better handle...hard to know. The inverse is also true, ie, "if only earl boykins were 1 foot taller!" Well, Boykins made up for being short with good skills. But if he were taller, he would be heavier, and maybe his handle is just a titch worse, maybe he loses a half second of straight acceleration, maybe he loses a lateral step...suddenly instead of an ok NBA career based on skill, he's a D-league average sized guy.

There is a reason there aren't bunches of 7'2 300 lb guys averaging 20/10 with 4 titles for a decade. Not because there aren't other big people, but it takes incredible athleticism to do what shaq did with that body.

[Ogaju]

everyone should have just answered 'No'. I bet the OP would have been happy to argue with that answer.

[GetLucky]

I could have been the next Shaq if it weren't for my lack of size, speed, and talent.

[jambr380]

Big Tp to Fan From VT - saved me a lot of typing time and was also more articulate than I would have been in my explanation.

Of course it's true that Shaq doesn't have the shooting of Ray Allen or the agility of IT, but if you compare his achievements, he has proven to a top 10 player of all-time.

[Tr1boy]

Cmon OP

Yes he is

Count all the rings, mvps, accomplishments, records ..

[A Future of Stevens]

If we gave him 8 arms and the ability to breathe under water he'd make a heck of an octopus though. 

Shaqtapus?  Could be a good SciFi Channel movie.

My favorite post of the last few months. TP haha.

[Fan from VT]

So I guess we should just base the HoF on the NBA All-star Skillz competition, right? Save a lot of time voting, arguing, and avoid controversy.

[SHAQATTACK]

Just the sheer query has me afraid that Kazaam will get me haha... but I think it's worth discussing.

When I use basketballer in inverted commas I mean that if you stripped Shaq of his size and strength what is left? Is he even a solid basketballer? I understand that most big men of his, and previous generations did not require complex skill sets but if you are talking about a HOF player I believe he is lacking in the skill department. Shaq couldn't shoot, was never an elite defender, passer, shot blocker (stats fluctuated often), couldn't take free throws so what is left? His physical presence was his game & perhaps was the greatest athlete (factoring in his size) we have ever seen on a basketball court but does that make him a HOF basketballer? Olajuwon could essentially do it all, Kareem had the most unstoppable shot in basketball history, Wilt actually had a midrange game and was an elite defender and shot blocker ect. I may be on my own here in thinking for all his potential, Shaquille O'Neal was actually a fairly average 'basketballer'.

Thoughts?

My thought is you never have watched a basketball game . 

[blink]

Shaq is absolutely a hall of fame 'basketballer'.  He was so completely dominate during his prime that this shouldn't even be a question. 

Go back and watch the LSU and Orlando Magic highlights.  Even before he was with the lakers he was impossibly good.

[moiso]

If you strip Lebron of his size, speed and strength, is he a hall of fame "basketballer'?




If Magic was the size of the average PG, would he be a top 5 player of all time?




Every player among the greats in the NBA have physical gifts and likely tailored their games around it.



Shaq was a physical monster who played that way and was the most dominating force of his era.

This post, along with Roy's little comment are my favorite two answers. 

But to answer the original question of the thread, absolutely not.  He had great moves and footwork for his size.  That stuff wouldn't have helped him if he were shorter and weaker. 

Every great player uses his attributes to his advantage.  Allen Iverson would have sucked if he were blessed with Dan Dickau speed.  I guess you would have to think of the most average sized player blessed with the worst athleticism and relied mostly on skill to see who is the OP's definition of a true basketballer.  Even a guy like Steve Nash who had average size and average traditional athleticism had amazing balance and hand eye coordination.

[Redz]

If we gave him 8 arms and the ability to breathe under water he'd make a heck of an octopus though. 

Shaqtapus?  Could be a good SciFi Channel movie.

My favorite post of the last few months. TP haha.

If I see that movie pop up on SciFi I'm gonna be coming after you for copyright infringement.

Seriously.  Might fit right in with their genre.

[LilRip]

Well, if Shaq was short, wasn't athletic, never adapted and still played like he was 7'2" 300+lbs when in truth, he was 5'2" and 300+lbs, he probably wouldn't make it into the HoF. Or the NBA.

Then again, a 5 foot version of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, stripped of all athleticism and footwork, probably wouldn't make it in the NBA either, even if he knew how to shoot the sky hook.

[hpantazo]

Well, if Shaq was short, wasn't athletic, never adapted and still played like he was 7'2" 300+lbs when in truth, he was 5'2" and 300+lbs, he probably wouldn't make it into the HoF. Or the NBA.

Then again, a 5 foot version of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, stripped of all athleticism and footwork, probably wouldn't make it in the NBA either, even if he knew how to shoot the sky hook.

Forget 5'2. If Shaq was 6'7 he would never make it into the NBA.

[Roy H.]

Well, if Shaq was short, wasn't athletic, never adapted and still played like he was 7'2" 300+lbs when in truth, he was 5'2" and 300+lbs, he probably wouldn't make it into the HoF. Or the NBA.

Then again, a 5 foot version of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, stripped of all athleticism and footwork, probably wouldn't make it in the NBA either, even if he knew how to shoot the sky hook.

Forget 5'2. If Shaq was 6'7 he would never make it into the NBA.

I bet he'd make the NBA. He would at least be as good as Danny Fortson, right?