Author Topic: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17  (Read 29832 times)

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Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #270 on: March 11, 2017, 12:05:47 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #271 on: March 11, 2017, 12:11:29 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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See you guys call me hater, but the fact nobody is bringing up how horribly Smart has played shows how bad the bias is here. His plus/minus is -16, shooting less than 30% from the field. You tell me now why I should be harsh on him at all?  Or at least criticize his performance
Smart has played well.

Those of us that watched the game and dont hate him saw that.

Hes a flawed player, and he is a terrible shooter and finisher but his compete level kept us in the game.

You are a hater. simple as that. You got called a hater because your solution was Terry fricken Rozier.
No my solution is that if a player isn't making plays and can't space the floor, which hinders the offense, you sit him. I don't really care who it's for tbh.

And you say those of us who watched the game?
I watched the game. He played hard, he hustled. Beyond that he threw up terrible shots, he was flailing all over the place, and despite his label of a stopper he was playing sub par defense.

If he played well his +/- wouldn't be in the sh1ts and he wouldn't have shot 30% from the field period.

Any other fan from any other fan base would recognize that, but the blinding Smart bias here is ridiculous

Yeah, this is just simply untrue. Smart was the only one to play consistently good D all night long. AB and Amir did good for the most part, too, but IT, Horford, and especially Jae, let alone the bench, were all completely terrible defensively.

And that's such a BS excuse using +/- lol You want to know why his +/- is so terrible? Because he constantly has to play and lead the second unit with scrubs like Rozier and Green. Rozier, KO, JJ, and Green were all no-shows once again tonight, and it's up to Marcus to keep that bench unit afloat.

I
think we all know at this point which poster here has the bias with Smart.

You are right we should ignore all the lineups where he's in with Horford, IT, or Bradley? He plays 25 plus minutes fper game and he plays with many different lineups. I think his plus/minus is a perfect representation of his performance tonight.  I think it's funny the retorts to my criticism of Smart is, "He plays hard!", "He's a fighter!". Guess what it would show up, as it usually does, in some form of statistic. I think it's a complete cop out for Smart to say that we shouldn't ever judge him by the stats.

Does he make hustle plays and plays that don't show up in the stat sheet? Yes, but more often than not that is reflected in his +/-

Only players that showed up to play are Brown, Bradley, and IT

Smart's an embarrassment to basketball. He should take up acting. Bum

Smart needs to be on the bench.  Put Terry out there. He's not playing good defense, he's not finishing at the rim, he's not spacing the floor, and he's not making plays. Why is he out there? At least Rozier can space the floor

Brown = -21 +/-, 14 pts, 5-8 fgs, 1 TOs

Rozier = -12 +/-

Bradley = -3+/-, 16 pts, 6-14 fgs, 3 TOs

Smart = -17 +/-

Further proof of your bias and that you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to this +/- BS.
But wait wasn't Brown playing with the bench unit that was so terrible and you can explain his +\- away that way right??

What?? Do you even listen to yourself?

I'm calling out your bias and different treatment of players, and then you do just that same thing in response? lol Smart and Brown BOTH had crappy +/- numbers due to the rest of the bench sucking. Take away Smart and Brown and the rest of the bench is 2-10. +/- is a junk stat, bro. It doesn't tell you hardly anything.

By the way, here's Smart and IT +/- per 100 possessions:

Smart's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - + 3.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

IT's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - +0.9

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

You say that we shouldn't use Smart's plus/minus because it's not a good indicator of performance, but then you pull up Jaylen Brown's.

Yet even though Brown's +\- was bad because he played with the bench he still put up 14 points, on 60% from the field and  40% from the 3 point line.  Because just as I said, more often than not a good performance shows up in some statistical form somewhere.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #272 on: March 11, 2017, 12:12:21 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Avery Bradley with strong words: "You get up to play hard for that game, and then you lay an egg in this game. It doesn't make sense."

AB as perplexed as the rest of us about this team's inconsistent effort this season.

It actually makes sense—they play up to the really good competition, and play down to inferior teams. But even the New Big Three teams did that pretty often; I guess it's just a "human nature" thing. Still frustrating, though.
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Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #273 on: March 11, 2017, 12:13:04 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #274 on: March 11, 2017, 12:16:27 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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See you guys call me hater, but the fact nobody is bringing up how horribly Smart has played shows how bad the bias is here. His plus/minus is -16, shooting less than 30% from the field. You tell me now why I should be harsh on him at all?  Or at least criticize his performance
Smart has played well.

Those of us that watched the game and dont hate him saw that.

Hes a flawed player, and he is a terrible shooter and finisher but his compete level kept us in the game.

You are a hater. simple as that. You got called a hater because your solution was Terry fricken Rozier.
No my solution is that if a player isn't making plays and can't space the floor, which hinders the offense, you sit him. I don't really care who it's for tbh.

And you say those of us who watched the game?
I watched the game. He played hard, he hustled. Beyond that he threw up terrible shots, he was flailing all over the place, and despite his label of a stopper he was playing sub par defense.

If he played well his +/- wouldn't be in the sh1ts and he wouldn't have shot 30% from the field period.

Any other fan from any other fan base would recognize that, but the blinding Smart bias here is ridiculous

Yeah, this is just simply untrue. Smart was the only one to play consistently good D all night long. AB and Amir did good for the most part, too, but IT, Horford, and especially Jae, let alone the bench, were all completely terrible defensively.

And that's such a BS excuse using +/- lol You want to know why his +/- is so terrible? Because he constantly has to play and lead the second unit with scrubs like Rozier and Green. Rozier, KO, JJ, and Green were all no-shows once again tonight, and it's up to Marcus to keep that bench unit afloat.

I
think we all know at this point which poster here has the bias with Smart.

You are right we should ignore all the lineups where he's in with Horford, IT, or Bradley? He plays 25 plus minutes fper game and he plays with many different lineups. I think his plus/minus is a perfect representation of his performance tonight.  I think it's funny the retorts to my criticism of Smart is, "He plays hard!", "He's a fighter!". Guess what it would show up, as it usually does, in some form of statistic. I think it's a complete cop out for Smart to say that we shouldn't ever judge him by the stats.

Does he make hustle plays and plays that don't show up in the stat sheet? Yes, but more often than not that is reflected in his +/-

Only players that showed up to play are Brown, Bradley, and IT

Smart's an embarrassment to basketball. He should take up acting. Bum

Smart needs to be on the bench.  Put Terry out there. He's not playing good defense, he's not finishing at the rim, he's not spacing the floor, and he's not making plays. Why is he out there? At least Rozier can space the floor

Brown = -21 +/-, 14 pts, 5-8 fgs, 1 TOs

Rozier = -12 +/-

Bradley = -3+/-, 16 pts, 6-14 fgs, 3 TOs

Smart = -17 +/-

Further proof of your bias and that you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to this +/- BS.
But wait wasn't Brown playing with the bench unit that was so terrible and you can explain his +\- away that way right??

What?? Do you even listen to yourself?

I'm calling out your bias and different treatment of players, and then you do just that same thing in response? lol Smart and Brown BOTH had crappy +/- numbers due to the rest of the bench sucking. Take away Smart and Brown and the rest of the bench is 2-10. +/- is a junk stat, bro. It doesn't tell you hardly anything.

By the way, here's Smart and IT +/- per 100 possessions:

Smart's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - + 3.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

IT's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - +0.9

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

You say that we shouldn't use Smart's plus/minus because it's not a good indicator of performance, but then you pull up Jaylen Brown's.

Yet even though Brown's +\- was bad because he played with the bench he still put up 14 points, on 60% from the field and  40% from the 3 point line.  Because just as I said, more often than not a good performance shows up in some statistical form somewhere.

Smart had Team best 7 rebounds.

Again if you aren't reading, it is a rebuttal of your comment.

Argument 1: Smart played bad. Brown played well.
Evidence: +/-
CounterArgument: the same +/-

Its the perfect cross examination. Using their own evidence against them is the best way to impeach a witness.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #275 on: March 11, 2017, 12:20:30 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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See you guys call me hater, but the fact nobody is bringing up how horribly Smart has played shows how bad the bias is here. His plus/minus is -16, shooting less than 30% from the field. You tell me now why I should be harsh on him at all?  Or at least criticize his performance
Smart has played well.

Those of us that watched the game and dont hate him saw that.

Hes a flawed player, and he is a terrible shooter and finisher but his compete level kept us in the game.

You are a hater. simple as that. You got called a hater because your solution was Terry fricken Rozier.
No my solution is that if a player isn't making plays and can't space the floor, which hinders the offense, you sit him. I don't really care who it's for tbh.

And you say those of us who watched the game?
I watched the game. He played hard, he hustled. Beyond that he threw up terrible shots, he was flailing all over the place, and despite his label of a stopper he was playing sub par defense.

If he played well his +/- wouldn't be in the sh1ts and he wouldn't have shot 30% from the field period.

Any other fan from any other fan base would recognize that, but the blinding Smart bias here is ridiculous

Yeah, this is just simply untrue. Smart was the only one to play consistently good D all night long. AB and Amir did good for the most part, too, but IT, Horford, and especially Jae, let alone the bench, were all completely terrible defensively.

And that's such a BS excuse using +/- lol You want to know why his +/- is so terrible? Because he constantly has to play and lead the second unit with scrubs like Rozier and Green. Rozier, KO, JJ, and Green were all no-shows once again tonight, and it's up to Marcus to keep that bench unit afloat.

I
think we all know at this point which poster here has the bias with Smart.

You are right we should ignore all the lineups where he's in with Horford, IT, or Bradley? He plays 25 plus minutes fper game and he plays with many different lineups. I think his plus/minus is a perfect representation of his performance tonight.  I think it's funny the retorts to my criticism of Smart is, "He plays hard!", "He's a fighter!". Guess what it would show up, as it usually does, in some form of statistic. I think it's a complete cop out for Smart to say that we shouldn't ever judge him by the stats.

Does he make hustle plays and plays that don't show up in the stat sheet? Yes, but more often than not that is reflected in his +/-

Only players that showed up to play are Brown, Bradley, and IT

Smart's an embarrassment to basketball. He should take up acting. Bum

Smart needs to be on the bench.  Put Terry out there. He's not playing good defense, he's not finishing at the rim, he's not spacing the floor, and he's not making plays. Why is he out there? At least Rozier can space the floor

Brown = -21 +/-, 14 pts, 5-8 fgs, 1 TOs

Rozier = -12 +/-

Bradley = -3+/-, 16 pts, 6-14 fgs, 3 TOs

Smart = -17 +/-

Further proof of your bias and that you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to this +/- BS.
But wait wasn't Brown playing with the bench unit that was so terrible and you can explain his +\- away that way right??

What?? Do you even listen to yourself?

I'm calling out your bias and different treatment of players, and then you do just that same thing in response? lol Smart and Brown BOTH had crappy +/- numbers due to the rest of the bench sucking. Take away Smart and Brown and the rest of the bench is 2-10. +/- is a junk stat, bro. It doesn't tell you hardly anything.

By the way, here's Smart and IT +/- per 100 possessions:

Smart's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - + 3.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

IT's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - +0.9

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

You say that we shouldn't use Smart's plus/minus because it's not a good indicator of performance, but then you pull up Jaylen Brown's.

Yet even though Brown's +\- was bad because he played with the bench he still put up 14 points, on 60% from the field and  40% from the 3 point line.  Because just as I said, more often than not a good performance shows up in some statistical form somewhere.

As RockinRyA stated earlier, I was merely exposing your terrible, biased logic that was doing this exact thing. You said Smart played terribly and his +/- is proof of that, all while saying Jaylen was having a great game, even though he had an even worse +/-. I was exposing YOUR terrible, biased logic there...

My God, how are you not understanding this?

And further, I'd like to address this other ridiculous comment of yours:

Quote
It's okay. Once Smart has made minimal improvement over 2 years and we let him go because his positives outweigh his negatives people on here will be like why did we like that guy so much?

Smart plays hard and he makes some great plays without the basketball. But at this point Smart's negatives outweigh his positives and once we add a highly skilled PG in this next upcoming draft people will see this.

For someone who says we don't use stats with regard to Smart, you haven't provided any evidence of any of your claims either. I'm not aware of any stats that suggest that Smart is a negative on the floor. In fact, all of the advanced stats that I know of rate him as a pretty high positive on the floor, including RPM (which is terrible), +/- (also not very useful), on-off, etc.

I'd like to see you come up with a statistic that shows how his negatives overshadow his positives, because I think you'd be hard-pressed to find such a stat.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #276 on: March 11, 2017, 12:21:24 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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See you guys call me hater, but the fact nobody is bringing up how horribly Smart has played shows how bad the bias is here. His plus/minus is -16, shooting less than 30% from the field. You tell me now why I should be harsh on him at all?  Or at least criticize his performance
Smart has played well.

Those of us that watched the game and dont hate him saw that.

Hes a flawed player, and he is a terrible shooter and finisher but his compete level kept us in the game.

You are a hater. simple as that. You got called a hater because your solution was Terry fricken Rozier.
No my solution is that if a player isn't making plays and can't space the floor, which hinders the offense, you sit him. I don't really care who it's for tbh.

And you say those of us who watched the game?
I watched the game. He played hard, he hustled. Beyond that he threw up terrible shots, he was flailing all over the place, and despite his label of a stopper he was playing sub par defense.

If he played well his +/- wouldn't be in the sh1ts and he wouldn't have shot 30% from the field period.

Any other fan from any other fan base would recognize that, but the blinding Smart bias here is ridiculous

Yeah, this is just simply untrue. Smart was the only one to play consistently good D all night long. AB and Amir did good for the most part, too, but IT, Horford, and especially Jae, let alone the bench, were all completely terrible defensively.

And that's such a BS excuse using +/- lol You want to know why his +/- is so terrible? Because he constantly has to play and lead the second unit with scrubs like Rozier and Green. Rozier, KO, JJ, and Green were all no-shows once again tonight, and it's up to Marcus to keep that bench unit afloat.

I
think we all know at this point which poster here has the bias with Smart.

You are right we should ignore all the lineups where he's in with Horford, IT, or Bradley? He plays 25 plus minutes fper game and he plays with many different lineups. I think his plus/minus is a perfect representation of his performance tonight.  I think it's funny the retorts to my criticism of Smart is, "He plays hard!", "He's a fighter!". Guess what it would show up, as it usually does, in some form of statistic. I think it's a complete cop out for Smart to say that we shouldn't ever judge him by the stats.

Does he make hustle plays and plays that don't show up in the stat sheet? Yes, but more often than not that is reflected in his +/-

Only players that showed up to play are Brown, Bradley, and IT

Smart's an embarrassment to basketball. He should take up acting. Bum

Smart needs to be on the bench.  Put Terry out there. He's not playing good defense, he's not finishing at the rim, he's not spacing the floor, and he's not making plays. Why is he out there? At least Rozier can space the floor

Brown = -21 +/-, 14 pts, 5-8 fgs, 1 TOs

Rozier = -12 +/-

Bradley = -3+/-, 16 pts, 6-14 fgs, 3 TOs

Smart = -17 +/-

Further proof of your bias and that you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to this +/- BS.
But wait wasn't Brown playing with the bench unit that was so terrible and you can explain his +\- away that way right??

What?? Do you even listen to yourself?

I'm calling out your bias and different treatment of players, and then you do just that same thing in response? lol Smart and Brown BOTH had crappy +/- numbers due to the rest of the bench sucking. Take away Smart and Brown and the rest of the bench is 2-10. +/- is a junk stat, bro. It doesn't tell you hardly anything.

By the way, here's Smart and IT +/- per 100 possessions:

Smart's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - + 3.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

IT's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - +0.9

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

You say that we shouldn't use Smart's plus/minus because it's not a good indicator of performance, but then you pull up Jaylen Brown's.

Yet even though Brown's +\- was bad because he played with the bench he still put up 14 points, on 60% from the field and  40% from the 3 point line.  Because just as I said, more often than not a good performance shows up in some statistical form somewhere.

Smart had Team best 7 rebounds.

Again if you aren't reading, it is a rebuttal of your comment.

Argument 1: Smart played bad. Brown played well.
Evidence: +/-
CounterArgument: the same +/-

Its the perfect cross examination. Using their own evidence against them is the best way to impeach a witness.

TP. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this lol

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #277 on: March 11, 2017, 12:21:53 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

I'm not going to argue with you about who knows more about basketball or who's played longer. That's what it means because I have no idea who you are and how long you've played and you don't that either about me. I'm sure we have both played basketball ___ amount of years and we learned this ___ much.  It's a moot point that doesn't deserve time within the debate. I understand that he makes winning plays and acknowledge that as I've said above. I'm saying at some point we need to look objectively at Smart's resume of work. Look back and take a hard look. And realize that Smart is an average overall NBA player that is just as replaceable as the next guy. He plays great D, but a large part of his positives can be outweighed by his glaring weaknesses offensively.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #278 on: March 11, 2017, 12:27:00 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

I'm not going to argue with you about who knows more about basketball or who's played longer. That's what it means because I have no idea who you are and how long you've played and you don't that either about me. I'm sure we have both played basketball ___ amount of years and we learned this ___ much.  It's a moot point that doesn't deserve time within the debate. I understand that he makes winning plays and acknowledge that as I've said above. I'm saying at some point we need to look objectively at Smart's resume of work. Look back and take a hard look. And realize that Smart is an average overall NBA player that is just as replaceable as the next guy. He plays great D, but a large part of his positives can be outweighed by his glaring weaknesses offensively.

He has the potential to be a top 3 defender in the NBA. Anyways forget that projection. How is a an all NBA defender replaceable?

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #279 on: March 11, 2017, 12:29:00 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

I'm not going to argue with you about who knows more about basketball or who's played longer. That's what it means because I have no idea who you are and how long you've played and you don't that either about me. I'm sure we have both played basketball ___ amount of years and we learned this ___ much.  It's a moot point that doesn't deserve time within the debate. I understand that he makes winning plays and acknowledge that as I've said above. I'm saying at some point we need to look objectively at Smart's resume of work. Look back and take a hard look. And realize that Smart is an average overall NBA player that is just as replaceable as the next guy. He plays great D, but a large part of his positives can be outweighed by his glaring weaknesses offensively.

Any argument you make isn't going to hold water. You are just trying to salvage your credibility. You said he played horribly, we showed its isnt so. Then you admit you are biased. Now you are going back on your statement and saying he makes winning plays and just need to look at him objectively, thereby indirectly saying he didn't play too horrible.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #280 on: March 11, 2017, 12:29:51 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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See you guys call me hater, but the fact nobody is bringing up how horribly Smart has played shows how bad the bias is here. His plus/minus is -16, shooting less than 30% from the field. You tell me now why I should be harsh on him at all?  Or at least criticize his performance
Smart has played well.

Those of us that watched the game and dont hate him saw that.

Hes a flawed player, and he is a terrible shooter and finisher but his compete level kept us in the game.

You are a hater. simple as that. You got called a hater because your solution was Terry fricken Rozier.
No my solution is that if a player isn't making plays and can't space the floor, which hinders the offense, you sit him. I don't really care who it's for tbh.

And you say those of us who watched the game?
I watched the game. He played hard, he hustled. Beyond that he threw up terrible shots, he was flailing all over the place, and despite his label of a stopper he was playing sub par defense.

If he played well his +/- wouldn't be in the sh1ts and he wouldn't have shot 30% from the field period.

Any other fan from any other fan base would recognize that, but the blinding Smart bias here is ridiculous

Yeah, this is just simply untrue. Smart was the only one to play consistently good D all night long. AB and Amir did good for the most part, too, but IT, Horford, and especially Jae, let alone the bench, were all completely terrible defensively.

And that's such a BS excuse using +/- lol You want to know why his +/- is so terrible? Because he constantly has to play and lead the second unit with scrubs like Rozier and Green. Rozier, KO, JJ, and Green were all no-shows once again tonight, and it's up to Marcus to keep that bench unit afloat.

I
think we all know at this point which poster here has the bias with Smart.

You are right we should ignore all the lineups where he's in with Horford, IT, or Bradley? He plays 25 plus minutes fper game and he plays with many different lineups. I think his plus/minus is a perfect representation of his performance tonight.  I think it's funny the retorts to my criticism of Smart is, "He plays hard!", "He's a fighter!". Guess what it would show up, as it usually does, in some form of statistic. I think it's a complete cop out for Smart to say that we shouldn't ever judge him by the stats.

Does he make hustle plays and plays that don't show up in the stat sheet? Yes, but more often than not that is reflected in his +/-

Only players that showed up to play are Brown, Bradley, and IT

Smart's an embarrassment to basketball. He should take up acting. Bum

Smart needs to be on the bench.  Put Terry out there. He's not playing good defense, he's not finishing at the rim, he's not spacing the floor, and he's not making plays. Why is he out there? At least Rozier can space the floor

Brown = -21 +/-, 14 pts, 5-8 fgs, 1 TOs

Rozier = -12 +/-

Bradley = -3+/-, 16 pts, 6-14 fgs, 3 TOs

Smart = -17 +/-

Further proof of your bias and that you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to this +/- BS.
But wait wasn't Brown playing with the bench unit that was so terrible and you can explain his +\- away that way right??

What?? Do you even listen to yourself?

I'm calling out your bias and different treatment of players, and then you do just that same thing in response? lol Smart and Brown BOTH had crappy +/- numbers due to the rest of the bench sucking. Take away Smart and Brown and the rest of the bench is 2-10. +/- is a junk stat, bro. It doesn't tell you hardly anything.

By the way, here's Smart and IT +/- per 100 possessions:

Smart's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - + 3.1

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

IT's Plus/Minus Net Per 100 Possessions - +0.9

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

You say that we shouldn't use Smart's plus/minus because it's not a good indicator of performance, but then you pull up Jaylen Brown's.

Yet even though Brown's +\- was bad because he played with the bench he still put up 14 points, on 60% from the field and  40% from the 3 point line.  Because just as I said, more often than not a good performance shows up in some statistical form somewhere.

Smart had Team best 7 rebounds.

Again if you aren't reading, it is a rebuttal of your comment.

Argument 1: Smart played bad. Brown played well.
Evidence: +/-
CounterArgument: the same +/-

Its the perfect cross examination. Using their own evidence against them is the best way to impeach a witness.

I said that if Smart played as well as people said he did it would have shown up somewhere in the stats. I said his +/- and 30% from the field are perfect examples of that.

You then say we can't hold Smart accountable because he was with the terrible bench unit and pull out Brown's +/- and claim that's why he didn't play well.

Which reaffirms my point. Bradley and Brown, outside of their negative plus minus, showed in the stat sheet that they had at least solid performances.

Smart's bad +/- with his 30% from the field shows his erratic play and bad performance. It's that simple

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #281 on: March 11, 2017, 12:31:47 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Missed the game.  Anyone still around for an update?  TP your way.
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #282 on: March 11, 2017, 12:32:13 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

I'm not going to argue with you about who knows more about basketball or who's played longer. That's what it means because I have no idea who you are and how long you've played and you don't that either about me. I'm sure we have both played basketball ___ amount of years and we learned this ___ much.  It's a moot point that doesn't deserve time within the debate. I understand that he makes winning plays and acknowledge that as I've said above. I'm saying at some point we need to look objectively at Smart's resume of work. Look back and take a hard look. And realize that Smart is an average overall NBA player that is just as replaceable as the next guy. He plays great D, but a large part of his positives can be outweighed by his glaring weaknesses offensively.

Any argument you make isn't going to hold water. You are just trying to salvage your credibility. You said he played horribly, we showed its isnt so. Then you admit you are biased. Now you are going back on your statement and saying he makes winning plays and just need to look at him objectively, thereby indirectly saying he didn't play too horrible.
Showed with what? Saying he had 7 rebounds? There has been not one stat besides this little cop out to show Smart had a good performance.

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #283 on: March 11, 2017, 12:35:54 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

I'm not going to argue with you about who knows more about basketball or who's played longer. That's what it means because I have no idea who you are and how long you've played and you don't that either about me. I'm sure we have both played basketball ___ amount of years and we learned this ___ much.  It's a moot point that doesn't deserve time within the debate. I understand that he makes winning plays and acknowledge that as I've said above. I'm saying at some point we need to look objectively at Smart's resume of work. Look back and take a hard look. And realize that Smart is an average overall NBA player that is just as replaceable as the next guy. He plays great D, but a large part of his positives can be outweighed by his glaring weaknesses offensively.

He has the potential to be a top 3 defender in the NBA. Anyways forget that projection. How is a an all NBA defender replaceable?
Is 30% from the field, 29% from the 3 with accompanying line of 10 ppg, 3 rpg, and 4 apg not replaceable in any other circumstance?

Re: Celtics (41-24) at Nuggets (29-35) Game #66 3/10/17
« Reply #284 on: March 11, 2017, 12:36:10 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Rajon Rondo
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  • Posts: 5572
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Smart is my second favorite player on the Celtics but at least I hold him accountable. He played average today actually. He should be getting the minutes he doesn't, he's better than Rozier. However he really needs to improve on his offensive game, like seriously. I don't understand how people aren't frustrated with it. Don't we want him to be a two way player? Would we be okay with Crowder shooting like this for an entire season? I have been patient with Smart, but at some point he has to start showing signs of improvement. Look at how much Jaylen improved this year? Why can't we see that type of development from Smart? He's only marginally better from last year imo. I really think it is fair to demand Smart to become a better offensive player.
Thank you!! I'm not saying trade Smart or cut him or anything crazy, but just hold the player accountable. I do have a Smart bias, I can't lie, but  guess who my favorite player besides Brown on this team is? IT. And I will be the first to say that his defense kills us in games and is horsesh1t bad. Thankfully his offense is so [dang] good it can make up for it more often than not, but either way I'm not going to continue to never hold IT accountable as you people do with Smart
tankcity says Smart played decent today. You said he sucked today.

those are different things.

Smart is really flawed. Smart was not half as bad as you made him out to be today.

Yeah it's pretty hard for a player like Smart to play badly because one, he is the second best ballhandler on the team, and second his defense is consistent. He does a amazing job boxing out. The guy is a freaking winner. Players hate playing against him. I actually play basketball for fun, and I can understand the type of impact he has on winning. I think maybe it's hard for people to understand because they don't play the sport?
Bro you have no idea who I am and you're trying to call me out. By the way you play for fun, yet somehow that gives you a complex understanding of the game? I've played basketball all my life, but I'm not going to pull out the ignorant "basketball knowledge" defense where it's me and you saying, " I have more basketball knowledge than you in my pinkie" crap.
I'm not disagreeing with people that say he makes winning plays and plays hard. I'm saying the fact that he can't finish around the rim at a high percentage, can't stretch the floor for this offense leaves everyone playing with him in that lineup at a huge disadvantage because he has to be ball dominant even though he's a sub par playmaker at best.

You are saying Smart sucks....He doesn't suck. He's probably going to make the all defensive team this year. How can a player suck when he's that good on defense?

I have more knowledge than you in my pinkie crap? What does that even mean? I'm not a professional athletes by any means, but playing basketball it seems clear to me how much impact little things have on winning a game...not everyone on the team is going to be a star offensive player

I'm not going to argue with you about who knows more about basketball or who's played longer. That's what it means because I have no idea who you are and how long you've played and you don't that either about me. I'm sure we have both played basketball ___ amount of years and we learned this ___ much.  It's a moot point that doesn't deserve time within the debate. I understand that he makes winning plays and acknowledge that as I've said above. I'm saying at some point we need to look objectively at Smart's resume of work. Look back and take a hard look. And realize that Smart is an average overall NBA player that is just as replaceable as the next guy. He plays great D, but a large part of his positives can be outweighed by his glaring weaknesses offensively.

Any argument you make isn't going to hold water. You are just trying to salvage your credibility. You said he played horribly, we showed its isnt so. Then you admit you are biased. Now you are going back on your statement and saying he makes winning plays and just need to look at him objectively, thereby indirectly saying he didn't play too horrible.
Showed with what? Saying he had 7 rebounds? There has been not one stat besides this little cop out to show Smart had a good performance.

MY GOD HOW CAN YOU BE SO THICK?! WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING AND EVERYTIME YOU MISS IT!

WE SHOWED YOU BY USING YOUR EFFIN ARGUMENT AGAINST YOU. ITS A WASTE OF TIME TRYING TO ARGUE WITH SOMEONE OF THIS LOW LEVEL.