Author Topic: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)  (Read 20383 times)

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Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2017, 11:46:59 AM »

Offline Clench123

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IT is becoming way too cocky for my liking.  He should be reminded that Brad Stevens is the architect behind his success.  I doubt he can flourish any place else as he has in Boston. 

And I can't believe he blamed Crowder for his screw-up.  When are you going to take responsibility, Mr. 4th Quarter?

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2017, 11:52:12 AM »

Offline seancally

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You never hear this nonsense from the real greats - after whom IT fashions himself. The best of the best shoulder the blame no matter what happens. We've even heard Coach Stevens say, it starts with me, I've got to be better, etc.

Brad will learn - he's religious about his job and about basketball. I'm not worried about that. But will IT learn? Does he realize he's an awful defender who can't possibly have the total-game impact as the guys he wants to be compared to? Doubt it.

Not the first time he's spoken up about someone else being to blame other than himself. True leaders show their willingness to meet adversity with resolve and self-improvement, not "we all need to be better." No. YOU need to hold yourself accountable and no one else.

We are a No. 2 seed. Probably won't catch No. 1, and frankly, we're a shaky, vulnerable No. 2. We aren't build for this year. I hope we don't extend him the max - and I hope he proves me wrong in the playoffs.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2017, 12:01:48 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I don't believe his intentions were to cause any rifts because quite clearly, Stevens, like a lot of coaches in the NBA, can do everything right up to a point and then out of no-where decide to get cute and make a costly decision because of pride, inclusion, or an ill-advised idea that James Young will prove useful. I am literally asking myself if Stevens is aware that the trade deadline has passed and James Young's services will no longer be required here in Boston.

IT knows this is his team and it's a player's league. He's the talent here, we NEED him. He'll get away with this slew of criticisms based on the fact. You can feel the frustration as there is a lot of pressure and faith in him from top down in the organization and they want him to earn his money.

LOL. TP.

Regarding IT, my suspicion is that he may be starting to see—as Ray Allen once did—that he is, in one sense, just a single cog in the complex machine that is Danny's Master Plan (hereafter referred to as the DMP).

This isn't to say that Danny doesn't genuinely care about IT, or Ray, or any other of his players; I think he does.

But individual players ultimately play second fiddle to the DMP, because Danny's goal—in fact, his job description—is to win titles, which necessitates making the team as good as possible for as long as possible in each era. The New Big Three era is over, and now he's building the next era. He pulled off a great move getting Stevens as coach, and a big heist in getting IT on the cheap, and I think the quicker-than-expected success over the last couple of seasons presented an opportunity to get even better even quicker, so he signed Horford, then tried like heck to complete the nearly overnight makeover with a KD signing but came up just short.

So for now, he's fallen back on "keep the team good, competitive, and improving" until he can make his next big strike. It didn't happen at this year's trade deadline, but it could happen on draft night, or over the summer; either way, Danny's main concern is maintaining the team's upward trajectory while maintaining roster flexibility so he can strike at the right time and in the right way—that is, making the right moves to ensure as large a title window as possible, certainly longer than the title window of the New Big Three era.

I'm sure that, in Danny's ideal world, that window would align perfectly with IT's rise to stardom (and even the remainder of Horford's prime), but if it doesn't, his sentiment is probably, "Oh well." He's building something, which means that from his point of view, it doesn't matter if Player X is part of the building's foundation, part of its support structure, or the capstone—what matters is the overall building and how that turns out.

That can rub players (and fans) the wrong way, but that's the way it is with Danny. In the DMP, no player is bigger than the team or long-term success.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2017, 12:02:32 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Thanks RondoHondo and Slam for your time to explain. TP for both.

I've backed this way of action since I started to post, and more people are joining it lately. Trade IT in the summer for a good player, draft Fultz/Ball, sign Hayward (or try as hell) and bring Zizic. Then extend Bradley and Smart.

I agree with this, AB should be cheaper than IT to re-sign . we need smart and AB to defend aagainst these great guards in the league.

Smart     Fultz
AB.           Jaylen
Hayward.  Jaylen
Crowder     Yabu
Horford.     Zicic

Brk 18 pick , plus whatever we get back for IT

Imagine that lineup with Ayton starting inside and Crowder/Jaylen as our two primary sixth men. Wow!!!

And contrary to what Gulab suggests, I wouldn't trade Crowder because of his very valuable contract.

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2017, 12:12:52 PM »

Offline chiken Green

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I am a little confused as to why this was supposedly a "winnable" game. I can understand saying the  suns game due to record but the Clippers, At home.  with Cp3 back?

Even with a healthy Al they would have been a huge problem for us on the boards.. but we were without Al and JJ (another big)  We may love KO (sometimes) but he is no monster on the boards.

We were up in the 1st half because they were not in rhythm at all - Neither team was.. IT picking up those huge fouls early had them in the bonus quick.. No they didn't kill us but it slowed the game down.. kept they afloat long enough.. Went on only down 3 I think.

Second half Cp3 hit 2 huge shots and then Crawford went absolutely nuclear (as he is prone to to do) The whole world knows that guy can explode at anytime, which he did.

They pushed the lead up to almost  20 with CP3 and Blake on the bench in Ice.. It was a wonder that he even had to come back in the game.. 

They went just as small as we did except they Kept 6'11 "One time defense player of the year" / #3 rebounder in the league, on the court.. 

Their big team is better than our big team and their small team is better than our small team. We needed to shoot lights out and we didn't come close.

That Experiment as IT called it was not the reason we lost the game.. Our starters were.

IT is a great offensive weapon- but teams have been attacking him on Offense forcing him into the mismatch and basically killing him .. Scoring 30+ but giving up 30+ is not a recipe for winning.

I am not blaming IT for the loss, I never do.. But He needs to look in the mirror and accept his lion share of the blame.. Punching the ball away once in a game does not mean you are not a liability. When Teams were posting him up - you could see our guys trying hard to run and help, losing their guys for easy open lay ups.

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2017, 12:15:01 PM »

Offline mysteryMrE

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The frustrating part of the whole deal is how Isaiah has seemed to be a bit more "vocal" lately, and not in a good way. First the comments about Crowder's pass in Phoenix, and now calling out Coach Stevens. IT is a very talented basketball player, but it seems that at times he can let his recent success get to his head a bit.

This team needs to play with a constant chip on their shoulder, or they will not be able to compete like a top three team in the East.

Maybe he's upset the front office didnt add anyone to help him contend this season, and he sees the excitement that they may draft a point guard with the #1 pick in a few months, and now his coach is playing rookies and guys like Young and Mickey in crunch time.


I'm sorry, but this team isn't even close to contending with IT as it's best player. Why mortgage the future to keep Isaiah happy.

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2017, 12:15:31 PM »

Offline coffee425

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Complaining about small-ball lineups is something IT4 needs to avoid. Him on the court is the biggest liability of small-ball defense.
Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2017, 12:15:42 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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I still believe Ainge is testing IT to see what type of leader he is and who emerges from this group to be a leader before he pays anyone big money. How will IT deal with adversity, playoff pressure, etc.

We're going to see. I believe he lost the Suns game and his shot selection and turnovers are a problem at times. Boy, PG13 sure would've looked good down the stretch in the Suns and Clippers game. I'm just saying.

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2017, 12:16:11 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Quote
"It's the way we lost [Monday night]; it's unacceptable," he said. "We lost the game in the last 15 minutes of the game. We played a good game up until the last 15. That's the players' fault, coaches' fault, everybody in this locker room's fault. We could have done a lot better."

Has anyone seen a player involve/blame coaches in front of the media before?

Maybe he will include Ainge and Wyc next in his ranting

His attitude is really starting to rub me the wrong way. He is starting to act a little, um how do I say this....Lakerish? The Celtics don't play this pre Madonna spotlight is on me crap. Celtic success starts and ends with the team concept, and even if your teammates and coaches aren't doing the best of job for a tiny stretch, you NEVER throw them under the bus.

I mean should his teammates start telling the media how frustrating it is going 4v5 on defense while IT4 goes to the all star game? Of course not, because they are Celtics. Very disappointed in this attitude IT is showing us.
#JKJB

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2017, 12:19:24 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Quote
"He's a very smart dude and he does a good job of the substitution patterns," Thomas said. "But, like, tonight I didn't say nothing to him. Maybe I should have but it is what it is. We'll figure it out."

Quote
"We can't be experimenting in Game (64)."

"You can watch film," Thomas replied when pressed on the comment. "You know what it is."

Really IT4?

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2017, 12:23:04 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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IT is becoming way too cocky for my liking.  He should be reminded that Brad Stevens is the architect behind his success.  I doubt he can flourish any place else as he has in Boston. 

And I can't believe he blamed Crowder for his screw-up.  When are you going to take responsibility, Mr. 4th Quarter?

4 seconds left, no timeouts, who the hell did he think Crowder was going to inbound to and when???

Listened to a recent Simmons ringer podcast interview with IT. Too lazy to look it up, but a lot of great stuff...almost an hour.

When the subject of Boogie was broached, IT seemed uncomfortable. Could've been for a number of awkward reasons, but one could be that he wanted the help that Boogie could provide.

He interestingly had two long pauses in the interview to two questions. 1. Did he think we could win it all? and 2. Was Stevens the best coach he's had?

Again, a million possible reasons why, but one possible interpretation linking the two is that he wants to contend NOW, knows we need to improve personnel to get there and knows Stevens especially didn't want Boogie (who perfectly fits our system because of potential chemistry issues) or anybody else (read rim protector/rebounder) who didn't fit Stevens system.

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2017, 12:24:18 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Thanks RondoHondo and Slam for your time to explain. TP for both.

I've backed this way of action since I started to post, and more people are joining it lately. Trade IT in the summer for a good player, draft Fultz/Ball, sign Hayward (or try as hell) and bring Zizic. Then extend Bradley and Smart.

I agree with this, AB should be cheaper than IT to re-sign . we need smart and AB to defend aagainst these great guards in the league.

Smart     Fultz
AB.           Jaylen
Hayward.  Jaylen
Crowder     Yabu
Horford.     Zicic

Brk 18 pick , plus whatever we get back for IT

I think we maybe getting a little ahead of ourselves and forgetting just how much IT means to our offense, but I can't say that the above hasn't been on my mind.

The only way to make the it work is to bring in a very quality big in a trade with IT. If all we get are picks, Hayward likely won't sign here and Horford might ask out. Replacing IT with Hayward is essentially a wash, that is why whoever you get for IT would be key to this team moving forward. I don't think WCS will cut it; think Myles Turner or Nikola Jokic. That may sound laughable, but IT is an MVP candidate and we can't just trade him for pennies on the dollar.

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2017, 12:26:01 PM »

Offline mef730

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I have a suspicion that IT's numbers would tank on a team like the Lakers who have very few useful complimentary pieces. Everyone of their guys is a chucker, IT will feel right at home. But here in Boston he's a real player, he's OUR chucker.... I understand you guys here thinking Fultz or Ball will make worthy replacements (by all accounts they look the part), but let's not close the book of Isaiah just yet, I think it's just starting to get really good. None of those guys will come out starting at the 1 and lead this team to 50 wins, let them learn the game first even as a #1 pick.

Coincidentally, the Book of Isaiah describes a savior who will come back to save the holy city. No wonder he's getting a big head.

Mike

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2017, 12:31:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Stevens has been getting kind of cute with these all-deep-bench lineups.

That said, neither IT nor Stevens is responsible for the lack of frontcourt depth on the team.  Zeller has regressed since two years ago; Amir Johnson is significantly diminished from just last year, let alone what he was a few years ago, and he can only give you twenty minutes a night.  Kelly Olynyk is as inconsistent as he's ever been.  Horford is the only reliable guy on both ends, but he's not going to do all the heavy lifting for you.  Without Horford, this team has nothing up front.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2017, 12:33:50 PM »

Offline oldtype

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You don't preemptively trade away players playing at IT's level just because you're afraid their next contract might not be great. That might make sense from a value-maximization standpoint but it makes no sense when you consider that you're dealing with a team of actual human beings. Think of what kind of message that sends to the other players.

Besides, who would give up anything of value for him? I doubt we'd be able to get ourselves anything better than a pick that's just barely in the top 10, if that. Is an extra middling asset really worth ruining team chemistry?


Great words from a great man