Author Topic: Patriots Free Agency Thread  (Read 18947 times)

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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #135 on: March 13, 2017, 12:47:31 PM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

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Supposedly, the Patriots offered Butler 3 years/18-20 million last summer. That breaks down to

2016: 6 million - He made $600,000
2017: 6 million - Tender is 3.91 million
2018: 7 million - He'll be unrestricted, so in order to recoup the money he could have signed for, he'll need to be paid 14.5 million

Derek Simpson, the ambulance chaser lawyer that is his agent, turned it down, maintaining his client should be paid as a top CB on the market. As a result, the Patriots ended negotiation of any extension, having tired of Simpson's antics and refusal to negotiate in good faith.
3/18-20 isn't negotiating in good faith for a top 10 CB.

The Pats are playing hardball, because Butler is restricted and they would love to match a contract he signs somewhere else. I'd be shocked if another team signs him to an offer sheet, because they know the Pats are going to match which further increase the Pats leverage.

I'd say the good faith part is offering to pay Butler 12 million for last season and this season instead of the 4.5 million he's going to make. It would have given him financial security and the only trade off is becoming an unrestricted FA a season later.

The Patriots were under no obligation to offer him the extra 7.5 mil for the last 2 seasons. Malcolm's agent overplayed his hand and it cost his client.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #136 on: March 13, 2017, 12:49:24 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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(Mini Rant)   :laugh:

Can we please just pay the man (Butler).

Say what you want about Butler, or his agent, or the "Patriot Way" method in FA.

This dude won us the SB in the final minute two years ago, and for the past two seasons he has actually played like an elite, or at least close to elite CB. Sure, maybe it’s the system, but even if that’s the case, he’s OUR ELITE CB.

If Gilmore is getting 5/65, then how is Butler not even worth around 11-12M/Year??? Hell even HT may end up settling under 13M/Year.

Also: Gilmore/Butler/Rowe >>>> Gilmore/Rowe/(Cyrus OR Coleman)

Rather have that for years to come then have another hole at CB (we also lost Logan Ryan already…)

In vacuum, Butler is prob worth 15m a year. That being said, there's context. This is not a vacuum.

He is restricted, so the Pats don't need to spend more than they need to. How come Kris Bryant and Mike Trout make far below their market value? This is not a new concept.

Once Butler hits unrestricted FA, he can make as much money as someone wants to pay him. Until then, he is going to have to play under the tender or demand a trade to a team that will pay. In either situation, the Patriots will prob. win 12 games next year and not lose too much sleep. They have lost talented players before and have gone on to win.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2017, 12:56:59 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Supposedly, the Patriots offered Butler 3 years/18-20 million last summer. That breaks down to

2016: 6 million - He made $600,000
2017: 6 million - Tender is 3.91 million
2018: 7 million - He'll be unrestricted, so in order to recoup the money he could have signed for, he'll need to be paid 14.5 million

Derek Simpson, the ambulance chaser lawyer that is his agent, turned it down, maintaining his client should be paid as a top CB on the market. As a result, the Patriots ended negotiation of any extension, having tired of Simpson's antics and refusal to negotiate in good faith.
3/18-20 isn't negotiating in good faith for a top 10 CB.

The Pats are playing hardball, because Butler is restricted and they would love to match a contract he signs somewhere else. I'd be shocked if another team signs him to an offer sheet, because they know the Pats are going to match which further increase the Pats leverage.

I think that actually is fair.  The player has the choice of taking playing out his current contract which includes $600,000 for one season and the $3.9 tender to get to UFA and a chance at a really big payoff or accept a significant raise to supercede his current contract and add a year.  That is his choice.  Now he has another choice to take the tender or take something less than top money.

I don't think he can expect to have it both ways; ask the Pats to forfeit the cheap years that are the actual current contract and pay top dollar.  Those are the rules.  He should have taken the 3 year deal that was offered.  He could play that out and still be young enough for a big contract.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2017, 01:25:19 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Hightower will meet the Jets tomorrow. He could legitimately make a decision by tomorrow some time. Growing belief though is that he will stay with NE on a deal at 10M/Year (surprisingly lower than Gilmore).
Hightower will now also reportedy meet with the Steelers on Thu, weather allowing.
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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2017, 01:27:47 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2017, 01:34:45 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

They could learn a lesson from Deion Branch, who left the Patriots but came back several years later and said he regretted ever leaving.
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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #141 on: March 13, 2017, 07:30:23 PM »

Offline mef730

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Hightower will meet the Jets tomorrow. He could legitimately make a decision by tomorrow some time. Growing belief though is that he will stay with NE on a deal at 10M/Year (surprisingly lower than Gilmore).
Hightower will now also reportedy meet with the Steelers on Thu, weather allowing.

The Steelers with Hightower would be scary.

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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #142 on: March 13, 2017, 07:35:21 PM »

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Hightower will meet the Jets tomorrow. He could legitimately make a decision by tomorrow some time. Growing belief though is that he will stay with NE on a deal at 10M/Year (surprisingly lower than Gilmore).
Hightower will now also reportedy meet with the Steelers on Thu, weather allowing.

The Steelers with Hightower would be scary.

Mike

Not if they keep playing that zone defense against Brady, they won't be.

Brady has 22 TDs & 0 INTs against Tomlin Ds.


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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2017, 08:57:23 PM »

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

In general, I agree, but there are many factors at play. I think we should also be careful about not lionizing sports teams too much. This is the entertainment business. The NFL players are, at the end of the day, entertainers doing something that is very hard on their body. Hall of fame is nice and all, but if we are talking about $30M vs. $35M, I'm not going to fault someone for taking an extra $5M.
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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2017, 09:15:23 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

In general, I agree, but there are many factors at play. I think we should also be careful about not lionizing sports teams too much. This is the entertainment business. The NFL players are, at the end of the day, entertainers doing something that is very hard on their body. Hall of fame is nice and all, but if we are talking about $30M vs. $35M, I'm not going to fault someone for taking an extra $5M.

Oh, totally, money is huge and an NFL player's career can end at anytime; however, potential legendary status is up for grabs here. These things have a way of working themselves out anyway. If they choose New England, then they are choosing that Patriots way and we will all be happy. If they choose to leave, then we can always rationalize that they were all about the money and not winning.

I definitely hope they stick around for a while, though.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2017, 09:25:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

In general, I agree, but there are many factors at play. I think we should also be careful about not lionizing sports teams too much. This is the entertainment business. The NFL players are, at the end of the day, entertainers doing something that is very hard on their body. Hall of fame is nice and all, but if we are talking about $30M vs. $35M, I'm not going to fault someone for taking an extra $5M.

Oh, totally, money is huge and an NFL player's career can end at anytime; however, potential legendary status is up for grabs here. These things have a way of working themselves out anyway. If they choose New England, then they are choosing that Patriots way and we will all be happy. If they choose to leave, then we can always rationalize that they were all about the money and not winning.

I definitely hope they stick around for a while, though.
Having both won 2 Superbowls already and having iconic plays in them, Butler and Hightower may already have cemented their chances at the HOF so long as the both go on to have stellar careers, no matter where they play. I don't think they have to stay in NE to be considered possible future HOFers. They both need to make decisions that are best for them and their families first and foremost, and if that means leaving NE to get more money elsewhere, I wish them well. I hope they have unreal careers if they don't sign with NE, just so long as they suck when playing the Patriots.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2017, 10:22:09 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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This is REALLY dragging out with Hightower.

Is the dude just going on an AFC "rejection" tour  :P
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Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #147 on: March 14, 2017, 12:19:07 AM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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Hightower will meet the Jets tomorrow. He could legitimately make a decision by tomorrow some time. Growing belief though is that he will stay with NE on a deal at 10M/Year (surprisingly lower than Gilmore).
Hightower will now also reportedy meet with the Steelers on Thu, weather allowing.

The Steelers with Hightower would be scary.

Mike

I doubt it. Big Ben is washed up and their secondary is a mess.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #148 on: March 14, 2017, 05:48:56 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

In general, I agree, but there are many factors at play. I think we should also be careful about not lionizing sports teams too much. This is the entertainment business. The NFL players are, at the end of the day, entertainers doing something that is very hard on their body. Hall of fame is nice and all, but if we are talking about $30M vs. $35M, I'm not going to fault someone for taking an extra $5M.

Oh, totally, money is huge and an NFL player's career can end at anytime; however, potential legendary status is up for grabs here. These things have a way of working themselves out anyway. If they choose New England, then they are choosing that Patriots way and we will all be happy. If they choose to leave, then we can always rationalize that they were all about the money and not winning.

I definitely hope they stick around for a while, though.
Having both won 2 Superbowls already and having iconic plays in them, Butler and Hightower may already have cemented their chances at the HOF so long as the both go on to have stellar careers, no matter where they play. I don't think they have to stay in NE to be considered possible future HOFers. They both need to make decisions that are best for them and their families first and foremost, and if that means leaving NE to get more money elsewhere, I wish them well. I hope they have unreal careers if they don't sign with NE, just so long as they suck when playing the Patriots.

Definitely should do what's best for fsmily.  Let's say the contract difference is 10 v. 12M a year and 30 v. 35M guaranteed.   That's a lot of money (the discrepancy) but in neither case does his family go hungry.  There have to be considerations that only he and his family can judge : Do they like their home, their town, their neighbors, their schools? What are the kids' ties to friendships? Do their kids have learning needs that their current schools understand? Are there other family members who rely on Dante? Are the Hightower's involved with local businesses? Does Mrs, H work locally? Is she tied to her work or local friendships? 

It probably isn't always JUST about the money. But unfortunately,  the fact that he's still interviewing, along with the probability that there is likely minimal  (if any) leveraging that can be done to raise the Pats offer, I am guessing that the contributing considerations are leaning to an openness to be persuaded by the money. 
Hope they don't lose him - especially not to the Steelers.

Re: Patriots Free Agency Thread
« Reply #149 on: March 14, 2017, 10:54:05 AM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

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Hightower and Butler both stand to make a lot of money in New England or another team. If they choose New England, they may make a little bit less (not extraordinarily), but possibly set themselves up as Hall of Fame type players because of being a part of a winning organization. Leaving now would really jeopardize that opportunity.

In general, I agree, but there are many factors at play. I think we should also be careful about not lionizing sports teams too much. This is the entertainment business. The NFL players are, at the end of the day, entertainers doing something that is very hard on their body. Hall of fame is nice and all, but if we are talking about $30M vs. $35M, I'm not going to fault someone for taking an extra $5M.

Oh, totally, money is huge and an NFL player's career can end at anytime; however, potential legendary status is up for grabs here. These things have a way of working themselves out anyway. If they choose New England, then they are choosing that Patriots way and we will all be happy. If they choose to leave, then we can always rationalize that they were all about the money and not winning.

I definitely hope they stick around for a while, though.
Having both won 2 Superbowls already and having iconic plays in them, Butler and Hightower may already have cemented their chances at the HOF so long as the both go on to have stellar careers, no matter where they play. I don't think they have to stay in NE to be considered possible future HOFers. They both need to make decisions that are best for them and their families first and foremost, and if that means leaving NE to get more money elsewhere, I wish them well. I hope they have unreal careers if they don't sign with NE, just so long as they suck when playing the Patriots.

Definitely should do what's best for fsmily.  Let's say the contract difference is 10 v. 12M a year and 30 v. 35M guaranteed.   That's a lot of money (the discrepancy) but in neither case does his family go hungry.  There have to be considerations that only he and his family can judge : Do they like their home, their town, their neighbors, their schools? What are the kids' ties to friendships? Do their kids have learning needs that their current schools understand? Are there other family members who rely on Dante? Are the Hightower's involved with local businesses? Does Mrs, H work locally? Is she tied to her work or local friendships? 

It probably isn't always JUST about the money. But unfortunately,  the fact that he's still interviewing, along with the probability that there is likely minimal  (if any) leveraging that can be done to raise the Pats offer, I am guessing that the contributing considerations are leaning to an openness to be persuaded by the money. 
Hope they don't lose him - especially not to the Steelers.

I'd bet the Pats and Hightower have an agreement where if he receives a larger offer on the open market, they'll have an opportunity match. The main purpose of these visits is to gain a little leverage on Belichick, not to actually change teams.

If you believe the rumors the Patriots offer is around 10mil/yr, maybe the Steelers offer him 12 and Hightower brings that to the Pats and they settle around 11.

Hightower probably told his agent, "I want to stay in Foxboro, so get me every penny you can in the process."

These visits are the only to milk a few million more out of a lackluster market.