Author Topic: So VP Mike Pence was using an AOL email for State business & was actually hacked  (Read 2802 times)

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Offline blink

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I'd be pretty shocked if someone complaining about the Clinton Foundation was met with a response from Roy about Trump's foundation's corruption.

You haven't read enough of my posts if you think I'm shy about criticizing Trump. Since being elected, I've criticized him and his Cabinet numerous times. I'm glad he's President over Hillary Clinton, but that like saying I'd rather be shot in the groin rather than the head.

About the only times I think I've praised him are for the Nikki Haley and Neil Gorsuch nominations. I really liked his speech the other night, too. Overall, though, I would prefer most Republicans to Trump. I'd take him over perhaps Susan Collins, but that's about it.
Lovely, but that misses the point I was making.

You consistently try to bend conversations criticizing Trump toward Democrats who you think have done similar things in the past and you do so in the name of calling out hypocrisy. But I've never seen you divert a conversation criticizing Democrats no matter how hypocritical the criticism.

No, I point out silly, blatantly partisan, unwarranted criticism of Trump when there were similar issues that others remained silent on.

If the less than a handful of conservatives on here behave in a blatantly hypocritical manner, I'll be happy to point that out. I already do that when conservatives go against their values, such as spending like drunken sailors under GWB. The fact is that we've been under Democrat control for eight years, so most examples in the recent past will be a compare / contrast between the two most recent administrations.

I agree with Big.  You may think you are the champion against hypocrisy but I think that you are just as much of a knee jerk reactionary as the people you and jpotter are complaining about.

Lol. The knee jerk reactionary that calls out both sides.

Perhaps the truth just hurts.

You aren't the leader in calling out Trump for anything.  It is almost the exact opposite since the presidential campaign started.

You have no idea what you're talking about. People can be critical of Trump without 1) being unfair, 2) being blatant hypocrites, or 3) being part of the lunatic left wing fringe.

I know just as much as you do in this instance.  I have participated in a lot of the political threads, and am not blind to how people react, you included. 

You have your views, they are conservative, and you are well spoken, but you have had a clear bias in most of your posts related to Trump.  You answer almost any critical post about trump with a call back on perceived miscues from Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, or some other democrat.  Now you can say whatever you want, and claim whatever you want, but I have seen it over and over again.

Offline Roy H.

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I think some perspective is being lost here.  Hilary Clinton had a private email account and server to allow her to keep her private emails separate from government business emails.  Over the course of 4 years and who knows how many emails, investigations revealed that a few emails did have what turned out to be ambiguous markings making them confidential.  I don't see a big problem with this.  My man Bernie Sanders had the guts to say who care about the dam emails.

Now we find out that Mr. Religious Right Pence had a personal email account but it is completely different than Hilary's private email account according to Mr. RR Pence.  The existence of a private email account does not bother me but I feel the statement that it is completely different than Hilary's email to be very disingenuous.

In his first speech as a VP candidate, he said "I am a Christian first, a conservative second, and a republican third".  I guess he is an american no higher than fourth.  Would a Christian really spend all that time criticizing someone about having a private email account while all along having a private email account?  Did he ever say, "look, I have a private email account too but mine is totally different..."  No.

And another think that bugs me about Pence when he says "I am a Christian first", how would it have been received if Mitt Romney said "I am a Mormon first" or if Bernie said "I am a Jew first", or heaven forbid if some candidate said "I am a Muslim first"?  Why is it OK to any elected official to put their religion above all else?  Some how it is admired when a Christian says this (even though anyone who would say this almost by definition probably doesn't have truly Christian intentions) but if someone from another religion said it it would be political suicide.


I'm in complete agreement with this, even being someone who identifies himself as being a part of the Christian faith.

Advocating for Christianity in this way is contrary to the liberal roots that our country was founded on. There certainly are Judeo-Christian values that are part of the very basis of our country, but honestly they largely fail in comparison to the values of classical liberalism and pluralism that also underlie our country's foundation. By saying this, he ultimately is saying that his faith will get in the way of him serving his country appropriately, but like you said, since it's Christianity it's tolerated.

What's more, most of the people that identify as "Christians" today are hardly true followers of Christ. I can't tell you how many of my  more conservative friends vehemently defend religious (read: Christian) rights, yet they're xenophobic alcoholics that are a far cry from the principle of "brotherly love" that categorizes Christianity.

I agree with your last point. Many Christians involved in politics are very selective in their adherence to the Bible. They tend to be very happy to judge homosexuals, for instance, but not those that are divorced. The last place you'd find many of them is among the lepers and poorest folks.

I disagree on the first point, though. I don't trust somebody who says they're a true believer religiously in something, but votes the opposite. For instance, a supposedly devout Catholic who voted in favor of the death penalty would bother me, because they're saying that God is supreme but that they know more and/or they're willing to go against what they believe is right.

I


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Offline Roy H.

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I'd be pretty shocked if someone complaining about the Clinton Foundation was met with a response from Roy about Trump's foundation's corruption.

You haven't read enough of my posts if you think I'm shy about criticizing Trump. Since being elected, I've criticized him and his Cabinet numerous times. I'm glad he's President over Hillary Clinton, but that like saying I'd rather be shot in the groin rather than the head.

About the only times I think I've praised him are for the Nikki Haley and Neil Gorsuch nominations. I really liked his speech the other night, too. Overall, though, I would prefer most Republicans to Trump. I'd take him over perhaps Susan Collins, but that's about it.
Lovely, but that misses the point I was making.

You consistently try to bend conversations criticizing Trump toward Democrats who you think have done similar things in the past and you do so in the name of calling out hypocrisy. But I've never seen you divert a conversation criticizing Democrats no matter how hypocritical the criticism.

No, I point out silly, blatantly partisan, unwarranted criticism of Trump when there were similar issues that others remained silent on.

If the less than a handful of conservatives on here behave in a blatantly hypocritical manner, I'll be happy to point that out. I already do that when conservatives go against their values, such as spending like drunken sailors under GWB. The fact is that we've been under Democrat control for eight years, so most examples in the recent past will be a compare / contrast between the two most recent administrations.

I agree with Big.  You may think you are the champion against hypocrisy but I think that you are just as much of a knee jerk reactionary as the people you and jpotter are complaining about.

Lol. The knee jerk reactionary that calls out both sides.

Perhaps the truth just hurts.

You aren't the leader in calling out Trump for anything.  It is almost the exact opposite since the presidential campaign started.

You have no idea what you're talking about. People can be critical of Trump without 1) being unfair, 2) being blatant hypocrites, or 3) being part of the lunatic left wing fringe.

I know just as much as you do in this instance.  I have participated in a lot of the political threads, and am not blind to how people react, you included. 

You have your views, they are conservative, and you are well spoken, but you have had a clear bias in most of your posts related to Trump.  You answer almost any critical post about trump with a call back on perceived miscues from Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, or some other democrat.  Now you can say whatever you want, and claim whatever you want, but I have seen it over and over again.

You realize that you just said you know as much about my thoughts as I do? 

I'm obviously conservative, and I'm critical of most liberal political leaders. I'd love to see the posts where I'm biased in favor of Trump, however. His biggest, and perhaps only, positive attribute is that he's not Hillary. The media treats him unfairly, and SJW protestors are ridiculous, but Trump the man is a joke who shouldn't have been the nominee. I can support many of his policies, but he's a vile human being. I'd still take him over Clinton or Obama, however, and I'll probably feel that way until the ICBMs appear over Maine.

Again, with as much respect as I can give here, you have no idea what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 09:29:52 PM by Roy H. »


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Offline Vermont Green

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What's more, most of the people that identify as "Christians" today are hardly true followers of Christ. I can't tell you how many of my  more conservative friends vehemently defend religious (read: Christian) rights, yet they're xenophobic alcoholics that are a far cry from the principle of "brotherly love" that categorizes Christianity.
I say who are we to judge regarding if someone is true to their religion or not.  What I don't like is someone exploiting their religion for political gain, whether their religion is sincere or not.

Offline jpotter33

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I think some perspective is being lost here.  Hilary Clinton had a private email account and server to allow her to keep her private emails separate from government business emails.  Over the course of 4 years and who knows how many emails, investigations revealed that a few emails did have what turned out to be ambiguous markings making them confidential.  I don't see a big problem with this.  My man Bernie Sanders had the guts to say who care about the dam emails.

Now we find out that Mr. Religious Right Pence had a personal email account but it is completely different than Hilary's private email account according to Mr. RR Pence.  The existence of a private email account does not bother me but I feel the statement that it is completely different than Hilary's email to be very disingenuous.

In his first speech as a VP candidate, he said "I am a Christian first, a conservative second, and a republican third".  I guess he is an american no higher than fourth.  Would a Christian really spend all that time criticizing someone about having a private email account while all along having a private email account?  Did he ever say, "look, I have a private email account too but mine is totally different..."  No.

And another think that bugs me about Pence when he says "I am a Christian first", how would it have been received if Mitt Romney said "I am a Mormon first" or if Bernie said "I am a Jew first", or heaven forbid if some candidate said "I am a Muslim first"?  Why is it OK to any elected official to put their religion above all else?  Some how it is admired when a Christian says this (even though anyone who would say this almost by definition probably doesn't have truly Christian intentions) but if someone from another religion said it it would be political suicide.


I'm in complete agreement with this, even being someone who identifies himself as being a part of the Christian faith.

Advocating for Christianity in this way is contrary to the liberal roots that our country was founded on. There certainly are Judeo-Christian values that are part of the very basis of our country, but honestly they largely fail in comparison to the values of classical liberalism and pluralism that also underlie our country's foundation. By saying this, he ultimately is saying that his faith will get in the way of him serving his country appropriately, but like you said, since it's Christianity it's tolerated.

What's more, most of the people that identify as "Christians" today are hardly true followers of Christ. I can't tell you how many of my  more conservative friends vehemently defend religious (read: Christian) rights, yet they're xenophobic alcoholics that are a far cry from the principle of "brotherly love" that categorizes Christianity.

I agree with your last point. Many Christians involved in politics are very selective in their adherence to the Bible. They tend to be very happy to judge homosexuals, for instance, but not those that are divorced. The last place you'd find many of them is among the lepers and poorest folks.

I disagree on the first point, though. I don't trust somebody who says they're a true believer religiously in something, but votes the opposite. For instance, a supposedly devout Catholic who voted in favor of the death penalty would bother me, because they're saying that God is supreme but that they know more and/or they're willing to go against what they believe is right.

I

Hmm, I'm not sure how you drew that from my first point, though, because being so critical of the importance of consistency, I obviously agree with that statement. If you're going to claim to be a Christian, then vote, act, and propose Christian policies, or at least justify them with how they're consistent with your religious beliefs. Care to explain how you see me proposing something different in that first claim?

Also of note, the Catholic Church is actually supportive of capital punishment in limited instances. It's justified by the accepted concepts of the right to a just war/right to self-defense, which are primarily based on Thomistic and Augustinian moral traditions. Of course, certain Catholic groups and memberships are against capital punishment and have advocated against it. And I'm sure the uber-progressive Pope Francis is against it, too. (I'm a Protestant not a Catholic, so I've always been suspicious of the power and authority given to the Pope, especially being at a major Catholic university. Pope Francis has only doubled down on that suspicion with how progressive he is.)

Protestantism is a much more difficult issue due to the number of differing denominations and groups, but they're pretty evenly split in their support or opposition to capital punishment.
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Offline kozlodoev

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I'm obviously conservative, and I'm critical of most liberal political leaders. I'd love to see the posts where I'm biased in favor of Trump, however. His biggest, and perhaps only, positive attribute is that he's not Hillary. The media treats him unfairly, and SJW protestors are ridiculous, but Trump the man is a joke who shouldn't have been the nominee. I can support many of his policies, but he's a vile human being. I'd still take him over Clinton or Obama, however, and I'll probably feel that way until the ICBMs appear over Maine...
No doubt many feel the way you do. And that's the sad story of how low conservatives are willing to stoop for a SCOTUS seat these days...
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Offline alewilliam789

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Once humanity moves on from the fear of death manifested in religion we will be able to finally focus on what's should be the most important goal.

The continuation of the human race and World Peace.

Religion breeds ignorance, hate, and division even though it's inherent creation is to try and make society better.

So please for the love of Jesus raise your children in the religions of math and science because that gives us a true understanding of our Universe and is as indifferent logically than human thought can be


Offline jambr380

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Once humanity moves on from the fear of death manifested in religion we will be able to finally focus on what's should be the most important goal.

The continuation of the human race and World Peace.

Religion breeds ignorance, hate, and division even though it's inherent creation is to try and make society better.

So please for the love of Jesus raise your children in the religions of math and science because that gives us a true understanding of our Universe and is as indifferent logically than human thought can be

Amen and tp.

Offline nickagneta

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I'm obviously conservative, and I'm critical of most liberal political leaders. I'd love to see the posts where I'm biased in favor of Trump, however. His biggest, and perhaps only, positive attribute is that he's not Hillary. The media treats him unfairly, and SJW protestors are ridiculous, but Trump the man is a joke who shouldn't have been the nominee. I can support many of his policies, but he's a vile human being. I'd still take him over Clinton or Obama, however, and I'll probably feel that way until the ICBMs appear over Maine...
No doubt many feel the way you do. And that's the sad story of how low conservatives are willing to stoop for a SCOTUS seat these days...
Well to be honest the only reason I was voting Hillary was for her ability to select a progressive Supreme Court Justice so cant really blame Roy for something nefarious for supporting Trump for to get conservative on the Court.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 01:07:03 AM by nickagneta »

Offline nickagneta

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I know Roy doesn't need my speaking up for him but I am going to do it. Roy and I have different political leanings. He is more conservative though more socially liberal than some here will give him credit for and I lean left but am more fiscally conservative than some think. What some don't know about Roy is he wants fairness in society. If you get outraged about a subject, he wants you to get outraged about that subject regardless of which side of the aisle is doing something  wrong. Hehates hypocrisy. I don't blame him, I do too.

So though he brings up pasts similar issues that occurred all he really wants to know is if you are complaining about this new scandal,were you equally outraged by a similar one on the other side of the aisle.

So for me,I stated my opinion. I thoughtit was hogwash when Rebuplicans went nuts over Hillary's email controversy and I think its ridiculousto go nuts over this Pence email thing.But I do expect since Republicans went nuts over Hillary I expect Democrats to return the favor and quite honestly, Republicans shohld expect it and just live with it

Offline KGs Knee

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I'm obviously conservative, and I'm critical of most liberal political leaders. I'd love to see the posts where I'm biased in favor of Trump, however. His biggest, and perhaps only, positive attribute is that he's not Hillary. The media treats him unfairly, and SJW protestors are ridiculous, but Trump the man is a joke who shouldn't have been the nominee. I can support many of his policies, but he's a vile human being. I'd still take him over Clinton or Obama, however, and I'll probably feel that way until the ICBMs appear over Maine...
No doubt many feel the way you do. And that's the sad story of how low conservatives are willing to stoop for a SCOTUS seat these days...

Meh...if faced with a similar situation I have zero doubt liberals would have supported their version of Trump.

Some might say they already did, by supporting Hillary.

Neither side has clean hands. And this thread, and just about every political thread here lately are indisputable proof.

Nobody in their right mind should have voted for Trump. Nobody in their right mind should have voted for Hillary. But it happened, it it makes me sick.

Offline jpotter33

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Once humanity moves on from the fear of death manifested in religion we will be able to finally focus on what's should be the most important goal.

The continuation of the human race and World Peace.

Religion breeds ignorance, hate, and division even though it's inherent creation is to try and make society better.

So please for the love of Jesus raise your children in the religions of math and science because that gives us a true understanding of our Universe and is as indifferent logically than human thought can be

This is an ignorant and completely uninformed opinion.

First off, it is absolutely untrue and makes no sense to say that religion "manifests a fear of death." In fact, if anything the exact opposite is true due to the promise of an afterlife. Recent studies suggest that death anxiety is actually lower amongst religious individuals for this very reason: http://www.hraljournal.com/Page/4%20Ya-Hui%20Wen.pdf

Quote
The analysis suggests the presence of both a linear and quadratic trend. Low levels of religiosity show a higher death anxiety. However, highly religious individuals show a lower death anxiety. This result differs from Templer and Dotson (1970), who found that religious variables do not relate to death anxiety. This result is similar to results obtained by Clements (1998), who reported that persons with intrinsic religious motivation show significantly lower levels of various types of death anxiety than those with extrinsic religious motivation do. The result of the current study is similar to those of researchers who argued that religiosity correlated with low fear of death (Clements; Kraft et al., 2001; Martin & Wrightsman, 1965; Minear & Brush, 19801981; Richardson et al., 1983; Suhail & Akram, 2002; Templer, 1972). We do not know whether religious persons owe the good life philosophy as a kind of consoling factor or not, so we recommend a further qualitative study. The present study found a linear quadratic relationship between IRMS and death anxiety. A strong belief system may foster a perception of increased control and predictability, which may lessen the fear of death.

Second, for all of the instances of people misusing religion throughout history, the social institution of religion is still the single most beneficent and charitable social institution throughout history. No other institutions have done nearly as much good in the world as religious organizations, and this world would be a much less charitable and good place without religion.

Everything can and has been misused or abused at some point throughout history - religions, philosophies (especially political), material objects, etc. That doesn't mean that you ban or prohibit these things. It just means that you put them in the right context to make sure that they are properly used. Western civilization has gradually moved to this point, and it has taken a great leap forward with the rise of liberalism (specifically pluralism) and the notion of human rights.

And people that think that religion is not an integral part of our inherently good nature are not up to date on history. Religion has always been and always will be an integral part of human civilization. TV series like Star Trek have inaccurately popularized this perspective that a world without religion is Utopian and perfect. That is extremely naive and absurd. A world without religion is not a world where logic, reason, and science reign; a world without religion is nihilistic, egotistical, and dystopian where greed, selfishness, and power are the only values that matter.

If you think today's world is full of bad things, wait until altruism and charity are no longer seen as "good" things. Yeah, religion was the primary motivator of this morality - read Nietzsche.
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Offline KGs Knee

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I know Roy doesn't need my speaking up for him but I am going to do it. Roy and I have different political leanings. He is more conservative though more socially liberal than some here will give him credit for and I lean left but am more fiscally conservative than some think. What some don't know about Roy is he wants fairness in society. If you get outraged about a subject, he wants you to get outraged about that subject regardless of which side of the aisle is doing something  wrong. Hehates hypocrisy. I don't blame him, I do too.

So though he brings up pasts similar issues that occurred all he really wants to know is if you are complaining about this new scandal,were you equally outraged by a similar one on the other side of the aisle.

So for me,I stated my opinion. I thoughtit was hogwash when Rebuplicans went nuts over Hillary's email controversy and I think its ridiculousto go nuts over this Pence email thing.But I do expect since Republicans went nuts over Hillary I expect Democrats to return the favor and quite honestly, Republicans shohld expect it and just live with it

I was pretty harsh on Hillary for her email "scandal" and if Pence or Trump, or anyone else in their position does so, I will be equally outraged.   Trump is a joke, and so far pretty much every thing he tried to pin on Hillary he is already guilty of himself in less than 3 months.

It has to be both, if it is actually equal, it can't be selective based on party affiliation (then again I'm Libertarian - so neither are "my" side). But I'll say this, I feel the same way about votes for John MacAfee that I do about votes for Trump or Hillary, they all are scum bags.