Author Topic: Woj: Warriors, Durant's inner circle bracing for tough news on knee injury  (Read 7277 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20738
  • Tommy Points: 2365
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
So suddenly Boston is in a position where,  if we DID make some of those trades that Danny refused to make,  we really could have a legit shot at banner #18.

Lovely.
With George or Butler we are not coming out of the East. Love and Smith will be back. Cavs win again with no Durant. Houston is looking good today.

Yeah. It's such fun, this perpetual rebuilding nonsense. God forbid the Celtics would actually make a deep playoff run if a rebounder was added.

I just don't understand the "another team is better, so let's not even try to improve" mentality.

Still trying to make sense of it myself. It's the source of my frustration this past week.

I think the big name trades were not feasible, but with the smaller pickups...there's an argument that improvements shouldn't be for half a season but a more permanent upgrade to the roster. And I think it's normally a reasonable one.

But with a vast number of picks and not even needing to give up meaningful ones to add a solid vet bench player or two, I just don't get why we wouldn't make such a move when the opportunity cost is basically nil.

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
Potential drama alert: GS currently has a 4 game lead over the Spurs for #1 in the West. With Durant out they still have, essentially, 3 all stars left on the team and there are only 24-22 games remaining.

BUT

OKC currently sits very comfortably in the 7th seed. IF, somehow, the Spurs caught GS with Durant out, we could potentially see Westbrook and the Thunder playing against the Warriors in the first round.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Offline Trifecta

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 489
  • Tommy Points: 43
  • #18 at any cost.
So suddenly Boston is in a position where,  if we DID make some of those trades that Danny refused to make,  we really could have a legit shot at banner #18.

Lovely.
With George or Butler we are not coming out of the East. Love and Smith will be back. Cavs win again with no Durant. Houston is looking good today.

Yeah. It's such fun, this perpetual rebuilding nonsense. God forbid the Celtics would actually make a deep playoff run if a rebounder was added.

I just don't understand the "another team is better, so let's not even try to improve" mentality.

Still trying to make sense of it myself. It's the source of my frustration this past week.

I think the big name trades were not feasible, but with the smaller pickups...there's an argument that improvements shouldn't be for half a season but a more permanent upgrade to the roster. And I think it's normally a reasonable one.

But with a vast number of picks and not even needing to give up meaningful ones to add a solid vet bench player or two, I just don't get why we wouldn't make such a move when the opportunity cost is basically nil.

I agree completely. I totally understand not trying to go for the home run and gutting the team. But not upgrading a position here or there for a couple picks/players that we have no use for is what bothers me the most.
KO and Zeller, aka Hopeless and Helpless aka the Twin Towers of Futility.

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11225
  • Tommy Points: 860
This discussion/disagreement about whether the Celtics are "settling" and not going for it to make a deep run in the playoffs is puzzling to me.  I think we could make a deep run in the playoffs if we had gotten say Paul George but not if we traded Bradley, Crowder, and Brown plus a Brooklyn pick.  And even if we got George for a fairer deal, the best we do is a deep playoff run, I see no title with Thomas, Horford, and George.

Now if we just make a trade for say Ibaka, it isn't even a lock that we go all that much farther in the playoffs.  There are no easy answers or sure things here.

What I find most puzzling though is that anyone can complain about having this team to watch while having the fun of the anticipation of the Nets picks.  We could be Minnesota or Philly and not have a good team or we could be the Knicks and trade our picks away and still not get over the hump.  Or we could be the Nets, go all in on some vets and pay the price for 5 years.

I am fine with this.  To be honest, I thought we would get a big to add to he mix without giving up any of the core assets but I don't view this as the end of the Celtics tradition because it didn't happen. 

Offline alley oop

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 495
  • Tommy Points: 30
Holy Smokes!

Love, Lowry, Durant...

The playoffs seem wide open, all of a sudden.

Wide open for a repeat.

But they've haven’t beaten them yet in the Finals. Having a title and beating a team isn’t the same thing. Just ask the ’72 US Olympic basketball team.

The truest warrior doesn’t lobby the league to suspend the best defender on the other team and
tell reporters what on court trash talk hurt his feelings.




« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:32:49 PM by alley oop »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Sprained MCL and bone bruise out at least 4 weeks.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Offline green_bballers13

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2948
  • Tommy Points: 320
KD should be fine by the Western Conference Finals. Now if Curry is out for the season on top of this, then GSW has a problem.

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
KD should be fine by the Western Conference Finals. Now if Curry is out for the season on top of this, then GSW has a problem.
GSW is far from a given of actually being in the WCF without Durant.  If they stay as the 1 seed, the Jazz or Clippers are not an easy 2nd round matchup.  If they drop to the 2 seed, then they likely have the Rockets sitting there in 2nd round (and might actually have the Thunder in Round 1, though I think they catch the Grizzlies).  Rockets might very well be favored against the Warriors without Durant.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
KD should be fine by the Western Conference Finals. Now if Curry is out for the season on top of this, then GSW has a problem.

Did Curry get hurt?

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
Well now I wish we had done something at the deadline :(.
ya, but you can't bank on injuries


I'm still happy we didn't trade the big assets

Its not about banking on injuries.   It's about doing everything you can possibly do to try and be as competitive as you possibly can,  and going in with a winners attitude rather then being complacent and overvaluing your assets.

Nobody goes from a bottom 5 lottery team to a championship contender overnight.   It takes multiple phases of rebuilding.

First you start by trying you're best to sell high on the assets you have, to trade short term assets for long term assets and flexibility - you aim becomes development,  not winning and Ainge did that as well as I've ever seen any gm do.

Then you reach the point where you start being really competitive, and at this point you stay building the team with the aim is winning games. Ainge apparently missed this school and somehow got his brain frozen in rebuild mode.

You dont get anywhere by sitting idle.  Lebron learnt that when The Heat got beat in the finals by an old Spurs team behind young Kawhi Leonard's mvp caliber play.   The Warriors learnt it last season when they shocked the world by losibg to the Cavs,  so they added Durant.  Thats why Lebron is on a team with the highest payroll and is still whining about them not having enough.   He knows they you can't stand still id your want to be competitive.

Boston could have added Demarcus Cousins, and right now we'd have been seen as having a serious shot at a championship.  They could have added Ibaka while giving up no assets of significant value,  and even that would have taken us one significant step closer to being able to compete with the Cavs and maybe make the finals.

Being competitive is beneficial.   Danny doesn't want to sacrifice assets and cap flexibility,  but what good is cap flexibility if no players want to sign with you as their first choice? 

 If we made the East finals last year, and pushed the Cavs to 6 games, then maybe Durant would have signed here based on the thought that maybe adding him is all this team needs to contend for a title.

But we didnt.  We finished in a tiebreaker for the 3rd seed with 4 other teams which spells playoff mediocrity, and then we got eliminated in the first round by a Hawks team that was arguably no better then we were.  That would have been enough to tell Durant we were more then one start player from a title.  More then 2 even, because adding Horford still want enough to being him here.

So now Boston goes into the trade deadline with more assets then any other GM, every team who is considering dealing their key players are calling him,  and he is not interested in doing anything to importune the team of there is even the slightest hint of risk involved.   He wants somebody to trade him a star for scraps.   So no deal gets done.

Now Toronto adds Ibaka,  which improves their team dramatically.  They'll probably finish above us by the time the playoffs come around,  and i am very confident that if we play then in the playoffs we will lose.

The wizards are creeping up on us,  and are a legit threat.  They're very capable of beating Ius in a 7 game series.

Now let's say finish 3Rd, wizards finish 4Th, and the Wizards eliminate us in the first round.  Now every few agent will be thinking about the fact that we've been knocked out of the first round 3 years in a row, and that were more then 1 guy away from being a championship contender.   Unless they are 100% fixated on Boston,  that's likely enough to convince them to sign elsewhere.

Now let's say it pick at #3 and we miss out on the key prospects.   Suddenly we start next season having not budged freon where we were in a year where we got eliminated in the first round.

But if Aibge made a move - even just a modest one.  Say,  the ibaka trade for a pick and Rozier.   Let's say that's smith for us to finish with the 2nd seed, beat the wizards and raptors,  make the ECF, win 1 or 2 games against Cleveland. That could be all out takes to convince a Hayward or Griffin to sign with Boston, knowing they could put us over the top.

Now let's say ibaka wants to much and we don't resign him.   Who cares?   Our sacrifice of Rozier and a pick just ended up the difference between us being a key free agent who improves the team,  or getting nobody.

And we will get to draft a top 4 guy anyway. But not that prospect has less pressure on him to have to make a huge impact right away.

This is why Ainge frustrates the hell out of me.

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
Well now I wish we had done something at the deadline :(.
ya, but you can't bank on injuries


I'm still happy we didn't trade the big assets

Its not about banking on injuries.   It's about doing everything you can possibly do to try and be as competitive as you possibly can,  and going in with a winners attitude rather then being complacent and overvaluing your assets.

Nobody goes from a bottom 5 lottery team to a championship contender overnight.   It takes multiple phases of rebuilding.

First you start by trying you're best to sell high on the assets you have, to trade short term assets for long term assets and flexibility - you aim becomes development,  not winning and Ainge did that as well as I've ever seen any gm do.

Then you reach the point where you start being really competitive, and at this point you stay building the team with the aim is winning games. Ainge apparently missed this school and somehow got his brain frozen in rebuild mode.

You dont get anywhere by sitting idle.  Lebron learnt that when The Heat got beat in the finals by an old Spurs team behind young Kawhi Leonard's mvp caliber play.   The Warriors learnt it last season when they shocked the world by losibg to the Cavs,  so they added Durant.  Thats why Lebron is on a team with the highest payroll and is still whining about them not having enough.   He knows they you can't stand still id your want to be competitive.

Boston could have added Demarcus Cousins, and right now we'd have been seen as having a serious shot at a championship.  They could have added Ibaka while giving up no assets of significant value,  and even that would have taken us one significant step closer to being able to compete with the Cavs and maybe make the finals.

Being competitive is beneficial.   Danny doesn't want to sacrifice assets and cap flexibility,  but what good is cap flexibility if no players want to sign with you as their first choice? 

 If we made the East finals last year, and pushed the Cavs to 6 games, then maybe Durant would have signed here based on the thought that maybe adding him is all this team needs to contend for a title.

But we didnt.  We finished in a tiebreaker for the 3rd seed with 4 other teams which spells playoff mediocrity, and then we got eliminated in the first round by a Hawks team that was arguably no better then we were.  That would have been enough to tell Durant we were more then one start player from a title.  More then 2 even, because adding Horford still want enough to being him here.

So now Boston goes into the trade deadline with more assets then any other GM, every team who is considering dealing their key players are calling him,  and he is not interested in doing anything to importune the team of there is even the slightest hint of risk involved.   He wants somebody to trade him a star for scraps.   So no deal gets done.

Now Toronto adds Ibaka,  which improves their team dramatically.  They'll probably finish above us by the time the playoffs come around,  and i am very confident that if we play then in the playoffs we will lose.

The wizards are creeping up on us,  and are a legit threat.  They're very capable of beating Ius in a 7 game series.

Now let's say finish 3Rd, wizards finish 4Th, and the Wizards eliminate us in the first round.  Now every few agent will be thinking about the fact that we've been knocked out of the first round 3 years in a row, and that were more then 1 guy away from being a championship contender.   Unless they are 100% fixated on Boston,  that's likely enough to convince them to sign elsewhere.

Now let's say it pick at #3 and we miss out on the key prospects.   Suddenly we start next season having not budged freon where we were in a year where we got eliminated in the first round.

But if Aibge made a move - even just a modest one.  Say,  the ibaka trade for a pick and Rozier.   Let's say that's smith for us to finish with the 2nd seed, beat the wizards and raptors,  make the ECF, win 1 or 2 games against Cleveland. That could be all out takes to convince a Hayward or Griffin to sign with Boston, knowing they could put us over the top.

Now let's say ibaka wants to much and we don't resign him.   Who cares?   Our sacrifice of Rozier and a pick just ended up the difference between us being a key free agent who improves the team,  or getting nobody.

And we will get to draft a top 4 guy anyway. But not that prospect has less pressure on him to have to make a huge impact right away.

This is why Ainge frustrates the hell out of me.

Welcome to the dark side.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
Jeff Goodman‏Verified account
@GoodmanESPN

Kevin Durant expected back for the postseason, multiple sources told ESPN. “It’s not as bad as it looked,” one source said.

https://mobile.twitter.com/WarriorsPR/status/836954069839282179?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Grade 2 MCL sprain and a tibial bone bruise. Reevaluated in 4 weeks. That'll be pushing it to make it back for the end of the regular season, because you know it'll be a bit longer with them being cautious.

EDIT: Also says out indefinitely with no timetable, so they certainly seem to want to be cautious and not rush him back by giving a certain expected date. I don't expect him back before the playoffs.

Absolutely zero need to rush him back.  They probably wouldn't even need him to the conference semis, at the earliest, anyways.

Do they even need him before the conference finals?

Offline mahcus smaht

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 577
  • Tommy Points: 4
Holy Smokes!

Love, Lowry, Durant...

The playoffs seem wide open, all of a sudden.

Wide open for a repeat.

But they've haven’t beaten them yet in the Finals. Having a title and beating a team isn’t the same thing. Just ask the ’72 US Olympic basketball team.

The truest warrior doesn’t lobby the league to suspend the best defender on the other team and
tell reporters what on court trash talk hurt his feelings.
getting pretty sick of this type of stuff.

You are mad Lebron is great. Its like patriots haters. The act is old at this point.

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30933
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • What a Pub Should Be
Jeff Goodman‏Verified account
@GoodmanESPN

Kevin Durant expected back for the postseason, multiple sources told ESPN. “It’s not as bad as it looked,” one source said.

https://mobile.twitter.com/WarriorsPR/status/836954069839282179?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Grade 2 MCL sprain and a tibial bone bruise. Reevaluated in 4 weeks. That'll be pushing it to make it back for the end of the regular season, because you know it'll be a bit longer with them being cautious.

EDIT: Also says out indefinitely with no timetable, so they certainly seem to want to be cautious and not rush him back by giving a certain expected date. I don't expect him back before the playoffs.

Absolutely zero need to rush him back.  They probably wouldn't even need him to the conference semis, at the earliest, anyways.

Do they even need him before the conference finals?

If they fell to the 2 seed and had to deal with HOU in the conference semis, it certainly wouldn't hurt to have him.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Offline kraidstar

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5368
  • Tommy Points: 2478
Well now I wish we had done something at the deadline :(.
ya, but you can't bank on injuries


I'm still happy we didn't trade the big assets

Its not about banking on injuries.   It's about doing everything you can possibly do to try and be as competitive as you possibly can,  and going in with a winners attitude rather then being complacent and overvaluing your assets.

Nobody goes from a bottom 5 lottery team to a championship contender overnight.   It takes multiple phases of rebuilding.

First you start by trying you're best to sell high on the assets you have, to trade short term assets for long term assets and flexibility - you aim becomes development,  not winning and Ainge did that as well as I've ever seen any gm do.

Then you reach the point where you start being really competitive, and at this point you stay building the team with the aim is winning games. Ainge apparently missed this school and somehow got his brain frozen in rebuild mode.

You dont get anywhere by sitting idle.  Lebron learnt that when The Heat got beat in the finals by an old Spurs team behind young Kawhi Leonard's mvp caliber play.   The Warriors learnt it last season when they shocked the world by losibg to the Cavs,  so they added Durant.  Thats why Lebron is on a team with the highest payroll and is still whining about them not having enough.   He knows they you can't stand still id your want to be competitive.

Boston could have added Demarcus Cousins, and right now we'd have been seen as having a serious shot at a championship.  They could have added Ibaka while giving up no assets of significant value,  and even that would have taken us one significant step closer to being able to compete with the Cavs and maybe make the finals.

Being competitive is beneficial.   Danny doesn't want to sacrifice assets and cap flexibility,  but what good is cap flexibility if no players want to sign with you as their first choice? 

 If we made the East finals last year, and pushed the Cavs to 6 games, then maybe Durant would have signed here based on the thought that maybe adding him is all this team needs to contend for a title.

But we didnt.  We finished in a tiebreaker for the 3rd seed with 4 other teams which spells playoff mediocrity, and then we got eliminated in the first round by a Hawks team that was arguably no better then we were.  That would have been enough to tell Durant we were more then one start player from a title.  More then 2 even, because adding Horford still want enough to being him here.

So now Boston goes into the trade deadline with more assets then any other GM, every team who is considering dealing their key players are calling him,  and he is not interested in doing anything to importune the team of there is even the slightest hint of risk involved.   He wants somebody to trade him a star for scraps.   So no deal gets done.

Now Toronto adds Ibaka,  which improves their team dramatically.  They'll probably finish above us by the time the playoffs come around,  and i am very confident that if we play then in the playoffs we will lose.

The wizards are creeping up on us,  and are a legit threat.  They're very capable of beating Ius in a 7 game series.

Now let's say finish 3Rd, wizards finish 4Th, and the Wizards eliminate us in the first round.  Now every few agent will be thinking about the fact that we've been knocked out of the first round 3 years in a row, and that were more then 1 guy away from being a championship contender.   Unless they are 100% fixated on Boston,  that's likely enough to convince them to sign elsewhere.

Now let's say it pick at #3 and we miss out on the key prospects.   Suddenly we start next season having not budged freon where we were in a year where we got eliminated in the first round.

But if Aibge made a move - even just a modest one.  Say,  the ibaka trade for a pick and Rozier.   Let's say that's smith for us to finish with the 2nd seed, beat the wizards and raptors,  make the ECF, win 1 or 2 games against Cleveland. That could be all out takes to convince a Hayward or Griffin to sign with Boston, knowing they could put us over the top.

Now let's say ibaka wants to much and we don't resign him.   Who cares?   Our sacrifice of Rozier and a pick just ended up the difference between us being a key free agent who improves the team,  or getting nobody.

And we will get to draft a top 4 guy anyway. But not that prospect has less pressure on him to have to make a huge impact right away.

This is why Ainge frustrates the hell out of me.

Have you forgotten about the 06-08 Celtics? They went from 2nd-worst to champions in one year. The Cavs are another good example, LeBron - a true superstar - took them from garbage to a near-contender in his first season. Same with Larry Bird.

Ainge is waiting for blue-chip talent, cause almost every NBA champion was led by an all-time player.

These incremental moves aren't worth worrying about one way or the other.

Free agents know this is a good organization already. The fact that AInge doesn't make panic trades doesn't hurt that notion, it reinforces it.