Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"

[Roy H.]

If you look at team achievement under the leadership of IT, maybe not the max.

He needs to get it done in the playoffs. At the same time, we're second in the conference despite no other all-stars on the team.

[mr. dee]

Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 15 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.

Stackhouse also average 30 PPG with the Pistons.

[Roy H.]

Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 15 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.

Stackhouse also average 30 PPG with the Pistons.

Not in the past 15 seasons.

He also had an eFG% of .445 and a TS% of .521. Compare that to Thomas' .547 / .627.

[nickagneta]

He absolutely deserves the max.

This is a lottery team without him.

I think that second sentence is the goal of a lot of fans. Why have stars when you can have a 25% shot at a complete unknown who, if everything breaks exactly correctly, might some day become as good as Thomas?

100% agree. There is a large section of this blog that believes the only way to #18 is through 19 year olds who might become great. Might. The calls to trade players for more picks in this draft, the calls to let IT and other excellent vets go because we need to build with players Smart's age and younger, the reluctance to not trade picks for the right type of stars is baffling to me.

Why can't we have it all? Good players and draft picks?
Seems like Ainge doesn't agree with you, he didn't make the deals.

He doesn't agree with us...YET! He hasn't traded the picks...YET! He hasn't made the picks and developed them...YET. Things could change. He might be taking the long road and be willing to have a good team now while he drafts and develops teenagers who might pay off sometime in the 2020s and beyond. Or maybe he just hasn't found the right deal yet. We will see.

[ThaPreacher]

Here is a list of the current NBA contracts! Check it out!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

Now, there are only a handful of players,that I think are worth MAX deals!
This may not be a popular philosophy. But I think MAX deals restrict franchises.

If IT wants a MAX deal in Boston, he needs to get it done in the playoffs.

[blink]

He absolutely deserves the max.

This is a lottery team without him.

I think that second sentence is the goal of a lot of fans. Why have stars when you can have a 25% shot at a complete unknown who, if everything breaks exactly correctly, might some day become as good as Thomas?

100% agree. There is a large section of this blog that believes the only way to #18 is through 19 year olds who might become great. Might. The calls to trade players for more picks in this draft, the calls to let IT and other excellent vets go because we need to build with players Smart's age and younger, the reluctance to not trade picks for the right type of stars is baffling to me.

Why can't we have it all? Good players and draft picks?
Seems like Ainge doesn't agree with you, he didn't make the deals.

He doesn't agree with us...YET! He hasn't teade the pucks...YET! He hasn't made the picks and developed them...YET. Things could change. He might be taking the long road and be willing to have a good team now while he drafts and develops teenagers who might pay off sometime in the 2020s and beyond. Or maybe he just hasn't found the right deal yet. We will see.

I agree with this, I think this could be only a temporary hold on keeping the picks.  If Bird's price for PG drops come draft time, well look out.

[TheSundanceKid]

Also said

The Lakers (have) always been a team I wanted to go to, I mean desperately – before I was on the Celtics,” Thomas said in the A to Z interview. “My Dad, being a Laker fan (growing up in Tacoma, Wash.), I was brainwashed as a kid of being a Laker fan, so that’s all I looked up to. I definitely (wanted to go there), especially in the draft (when) they had four second-round picks. “And when I did work out for the Lakers, they were interested in me and they thought they would pick me – which, they didn’t. And also, when I was a free agent, they were showing interest but that was the year they were waiting on, like, Carmelo (Anthony) and those types of guys to decide if they would come to LA, so I wasn’t like the first option. And then they ended up getting Jeremy Lin, so…” 29 mins ago – via USA Today Sports

Hmmm...

Sounds like he's no longer interested in the Lakers

[TheSundanceKid]

Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 15 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.

Stackhouse also average 30 PPG with the Pistons.

Not in the past 15 seasons.

He also had an eFG% of .445 and a TS% of .521. Compare that to Thomas' .547 / .627.

This really shouldn't be an argument. If Mike Conley is worth the max so is IT. And none of this "he's a max player but not a Celtics max player" nonsense. If you want to sniff a championship any time soon then you need him. If you think we should build around the young guys then it's still a positive having him around, unless you want to align ourselves with the 76ers methodology...

[adam8]

Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 25 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.

And here's a list of current players better than IT

Lebron
Durant
Thompson
Curry
Derozen
Lowry
Harden
George
Butler
Anthony Davis
KAT
John Wall
Beal
Draymond green
Aldridge
Kahwhi
Cousins
Griffin
Cp3
Westbrook
Gianni's
Kyrie

Upcoming stars who will soon be better, or will last longer
Wiggins
Myles turner
Drummond
Lillard
Porzingis


So I would put IT somewhere between top 30-40 players for the next 5 years.

Is that worth a max if we can draft an all NBA type pg with size that can play both ends of the court? (Fultz,Ball) on a rookie contract locked up for 4 years.

Unless we are getting 2 stars this summer, I don't think it makes a ton of sense.

Anyone can make a long list of good players doesn't mean they are all better that IT. Cousins just got traded for a ham sandwich so the league disagrees there, hard time believing both Toronto and both Washington guards are better when celts have a better record and no other all stars. I certainly take IT over Griffin and his injuries, probably the same for CP3 at this point. Thompson I would have to see carry a team before I think he is IT good. Few more in there that are hard to separate because there games are so different but to just say every good player in the league is better than IT is very disrespectful to what he has accomplished the last two years.

If nothing changed at all on the court, same exact player but he was listed at 6-2 no one here would think he wasn't a max player.

[mctyson]

People react so quickly to this stuff it is funny.

Newsflash:  almost every decision on the roster for next year and years to come, including how much money IT will get in his next contract, is going to be based on how this team performs in the playoffs.

If IT plays well and they make the ECF, I think it is highly likely the Celtics extend him this offseason after free agency.

[ederson]

Anyone can make a long list of good players doesn't mean they are all better that IT. Cousins just got traded for a ham sandwich so the league disagrees there, hard time believing both Toronto and both Washington guards are better when celts have a better record and no other all stars. I certainly take IT over Griffin and his injuries, probably the same for CP3 at this point. Thompson I would have to see carry a team before I think he is IT good. Few more in there that are hard to separate because there games are so different but to just say every good player in the league is better than IT is very disrespectful to what he has accomplished the last two years.

If nothing changed at all on the court, same exact player but he was listed at 6-2 no one here would think he wasn't a max player.

now you are disrespectful to other players.

[mctyson]

He absolutely deserves the max.

This is a lottery team without him.

I think that second sentence is the goal of a lot of fans. Why have stars when you can have a 25% shot at a complete unknown who, if everything breaks exactly correctly, might some day become as good as Thomas?

100% agree. There is a large section of this blog that believes the only way to #18 is through 19 year olds who might become great. Might. The calls to trade players for more picks in this draft, the calls to let IT and other excellent vets go because we need to build with players Smart's age and younger, the reluctance to not trade picks for the right type of stars is baffling to me.

Why can't we have it all? Good players and draft picks?
Seems like Ainge doesn't agree with you, he didn't make the deals.

He doesn't agree with us...YET! He hasn't traded the picks...YET! He hasn't made the picks and developed them...YET. Things could change. He might be taking the long road and be willing to have a good team now while he drafts and develops teenagers who might pay off sometime in the 2020s and beyond. Or maybe he just hasn't found the right deal yet. We will see.

If the pick lands #1 it will be twice as valuable versus the value at the deadline this year.  Like I said in a previous post, what the Celtics do will have a lot to do with their post-season performance.

If they make a deep run, say to the ECF, I think they will keep the pick if they can sign Hayward.

If they get bounced early again, the whole roster will look different.

[adam8]

Anyone can make a long list of good players doesn't mean they are all better that IT. Cousins just got traded for a ham sandwich so the league disagrees there, hard time believing both Toronto and both Washington guards are better when celts have a better record and no other all stars. I certainly take IT over Griffin and his injuries, probably the same for CP3 at this point. Thompson I would have to see carry a team before I think he is IT good. Few more in there that are hard to separate because there games are so different but to just say every good player in the league is better than IT is very disrespectful to what he has accomplished the last two years.

If nothing changed at all on the court, same exact player but he was listed at 6-2 no one here would think he wasn't a max player.

now you are disrespectful to other players.

I think Klay is an excellent player, I also think IT is a player that can average almost 30 a game on extremely efficient scoring while having the other team game plan only to stop him, all the while his team is second in the conference. Talking a guy that is easily a top 5 MVP candidate, maybe I overrate IT but I try to judge him the way we judge other players, by looking at his stats, how his team performs with him on the court, and the teams record overall and by these metrics he is one of the very best players in the NBA, knock him down a bit for being small on defense and I dont see how that makes it a stretch to say I would have to see Klay be game planned against to say he is for sure better than a guy that is already proving it.

[adam8]

Double post

[mctyson]

I think people who believe IT is not worth a max contract are going to be disappointed.  I actually think he will not only be getting a max contract but will possibly be getting the Designated Player super-max.  Here is why:

I went back and looked at the top 2 players (1st, 2nd) in the scoring race over the last 11 seasons.  Here they are with their finish on the All-NBA teams (sorry for the mangled table).   

Only 2 players (of 22 total) who finished either 1st or 2nd in the scoring race did not make an All-NBA team:  Harden last year and Melo three years ago. 

2 more players simply made the 3rd team:  Melo (again) in '07 and Iverson in '06.

For these guys I looked up their team's records and as you could probably guess (especially for Melo), their teams were awful.

I did this because I am too lazy to look up the answer to my actual question:  how many times has a player who finished either 1st or 2nd in the scoring race, who played on a team that won 50+ games, not made the All-NBA 1st or 2nd team?  My guess is based on this probably very rarely.

Season   1st Place            All-NBA Team   2nd Place         All-NBA Team   Team Wins
2015-16   Stephen Curry           1        James Harden       None                   41
2014-15   Russell Westbrook     2         James Harden         1   
2013-14   Kevin Durant            1        Carmelo Anthony       None                 37
2012-13   Carmelo Anthony     2         Kobe Bryant            1        
2011-12   Kevin Durant           1        Kobe Bryant                  1   
2010-11   Kevin Durant           1        Lebron James            1   
2009-10   Kevin Durant           1        Lebron James            1   
2008-09   Dwyane Wade          1        Lebron James           1   
2007-08   LeBron James          1        Kobe Bryant                 1   
2006-07   Kobe Bryant            1         Carmelo Anthony        3                      33
2005-06   Kobe Bryant            1         Allen Iverson              3                       38