Author Topic: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"  (Read 11636 times)

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Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2017, 09:18:30 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Would people on here really prefer letting Thomas walk to paying him the max?

Do people really think we would do better in free agency than Isaiah?

Isaiah deserves the max, he's been one of the best offensive players in the league this year and he was also excellent last year.

Only the day drinkers.  Tremendous respect for them, but not the best prospective GMs.

That's not the issue - before he started negotiating through the media and opening his mouth, I would have reluctantly said we have no choice but to ask for the max. But what he's doing is really childish and is a very very bad sign - to be going through the media this way and bringing up the Lakers.


Is it a reflection of character flaws, or the state of the league as a whole, though?  We are seeing the same from P. George, Butler has been rumored to be a locker room issue, etc.   
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 09:25:49 PM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2017, 09:25:02 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 15 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.






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Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2017, 09:26:34 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Unless Ainge makes a big move in the offseason, paying IT MAX would be a big mistake when we're two stars away.  Tying up 60M of cap space in Thomas and Horford would make us a perennial pretender.

Pretty much this. Unless we sign Griffin or Hayward + an upgrade to the bigs rotation via trade, I have no interest in maxing out IT. I'd rather shop IT and Horford at the deadline next year and commit fully to the young core than run this same basic team with no real upgrades the next couple of years.

I'd also rather commit to Bradley and Smart long-term in that scenario, too. A Smart, Bradley, Fultz/Ball, Brown, Zizic, Yabu, and 2018 Brooklyn pick core is much more desirable to build around than this same basic unit that will absolutely max out as a high second round/low conference finals team.



 Interesting Take Potter. Although I'm scared of the thought of the offense without Thomas.

 Ideally I'd like to sign Thomas to a 2 year Max deal with a team option for the third year.

 Not sure he would sign that, but he's be set for life with that contract if he's smart, and we can convince him we are a title contender.

 Plus he owes us a solid for turning him into a superstar and MVP canadate.

The thing that scares me about Thomas, Bradley & Crowder is they are all horribly underpaid...and they know it. I think it is no surprise that they are our three best performers as they have felt slighted for being under appreciated (Bradley has fired his previous agent). So I am worried that all three are going to insist they are overpaid when their current deals are up.

Well, they are very underpaid, and in some cases underappreciated so when the time comes to get paid, they will hold out for the max they can get.

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2017, 09:28:39 PM »

Offline jmen788

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Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 25 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.

Westbrook is the only true PG on that list and he also rebounds, gets more assists, more steals, is younger, etc. Plus, I don't say it to be prejudicial, but IT has more limitations due to his height (e.g. he needs his quickness more, and with age that will diminish). If IT can't take a 'discount' of 20-25 mil a year, that's rough...

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2017, 09:42:27 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Here's the list of guys who have scored 29.7+ points per game in the past 25 years:

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Isaiah Thomas

Only two of those guys had an eFG% or TS% as good as IT's this year. Nobody on the list took fewer FGA's per game or averaged fewer turnovers.

The idea that IT doesn't deserve a max deal is absurd.

And here's a list of current players better than IT

Lebron
Durant
Thompson
Curry
Derozen
Lowry
Harden
George
Butler
Anthony Davis
KAT
John Wall
Beal
Draymond green
Aldridge
Kahwhi
Cousins
Griffin
Cp3
Westbrook
Gianni's
Kyrie

Upcoming stars who will soon be better, or will last longer
Wiggins
Myles turner
Drummond
Lillard
Porzingis


So I would put IT somewhere between top 30-40 players for the next 5 years.

Is that worth a max if we can draft an all NBA type pg with size that can play both ends of the court? (Fultz,Ball) on a rookie contract locked up for 4 years.

Unless we are getting 2 stars this summer, I don't think it makes a ton of sense.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 09:49:39 PM by rondohondo »

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2017, 09:44:17 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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You know, if we get the number one pick in this year's draft, I don't care if they max him or not.

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2017, 09:45:30 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Would people on here really prefer letting Thomas walk to paying him the max?

Do people really think we would do better in free agency than Isaiah?

Isaiah deserves the max, he's been one of the best offensive players in the league this year and he was also excellent last year.

Only the day drinkers.  Tremendous respect for them, but not the best prospective GMs.

I don't think anybody is proposing letting IT walk for nothing. As has been stated, if he is here past next year's trade deadline, then Ainge clearly doesn't mind signing him to the max (if that's what it takes).

If Ainge doesn't think this team can win a championship and won't acquire the pieces to do so, then is there really any other logical option than to get as much value as you can for him before he hits FA?

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2017, 09:51:11 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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What a thread.... with actual comprehensive arguments to support the pro and the con position on maxing out IT.

I have read the entire thread and I am now conflicted regarding this issue.

There are very interesting arguments on both sides. For those that are p---ed that he brought up the Lakers that is an emotional response, but it is not to be discounted since one of the reasons IT is so beloved in Boston is that he seemed to really embrace the Celtics. Swooning over the Lakers is not a way to warm yourself into the heart of Celtic fans, so he really should not go in that direction (although I do feel that his mention of the Lakers was more historical than forward looking).

If you look strictly at the individual statistics, IT is entitled to the max.

If you look at team achievement under the leadership of IT, maybe not the max.

If you look at the total body of work from HS as a predictor of future performance, maybe not max.

Beware of the Koncack (sp) contract. Max is not a place for a flash in the pan.

Danny has a predicament here, but at the end of the day the market and the team's needs should determine the value.

The questions you ask at the time of the decision is ..

1. How much does the organization need IT.
2. How much does the team need IT.
3. What are the best alternatives to IT for questions 1 and 2.
4. What are other teams willing to pay (i.e what is IT's market value).

That is what is going to decide if he gest maxed or not.



Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2017, 09:56:22 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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You know, if we get the number one pick in this year's draft, I don't care if they max him or not.

That exact thought may weight very heavy on Danny .......

To be sure .....the FRont office is looking hard how the draft plays out.  How the future might  look going forward .   LeBrons will be formable opponent for several years yet.  Maybe they will want to build a little further out . 

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2017, 09:56:35 PM »

Offline jdz101

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IT will get max money. The fact it is being discussed is absurd.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2017, 10:05:31 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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IT will get max money. The fact it is being discussed is absurd.

Doesn't mean it'll be from us, especially if we add someone like Fultz this summer.

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2017, 10:07:18 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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The whole IT talking about LA right after PG13 talked about wanting to watch IT in the All Star game, and then right before the deadline saying he'd only sign an extension in LA if traded. Makes me wonder if they talked last weekend.

DA needs to see how serious he was about this. Maybe he and DA already talked and DA said he'd give him NEAR max money so they can pay other potential players. Maybe when DA called up Magic this week he asked about an IT the Nets 2017 for their top 2 pick. Fultz/Jackson anyone?! :P

But seriously, this isn't sitting too well. You don't bring up LA when you're playing in Boston, thats just rude. I love IT, and hopefully this is him just bringing up the price, but DA may need to see what he can get for him on draft night.  :-\

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2017, 10:11:04 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Would people on here really prefer letting Thomas walk to paying him the max?

Do people really think we would do better in free agency than Isaiah?

Isaiah deserves the max, he's been one of the best offensive players in the league this year and he was also excellent last year.

Only the day drinkers.  Tremendous respect for them, but not the best prospective GMs.

I don't think anybody is proposing letting IT walk for nothing. As has been stated, if he is here past next year's trade deadline, then Ainge clearly doesn't mind signing him to the max (if that's what it takes).

If Ainge doesn't think this team can win a championship and won't acquire the pieces to do so, then is there really any other logical option than to get as much value as you can for him before he hits FA?

Sure, probably for a good return, too.  Just think he's too good to not bring back.  I'm not sure we would be better than 8th in the conference without him, though, and teams like the 76ers and Bucks should improve.   
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Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2017, 10:14:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just imagine if IT makes an All-NBA team (absolutely possible). Would anybody feel comfortable committing over $40M/yr to IT over 5 years using the super-max?

It's hard not to like IT and how he has helped the Cs, but if George or Butler were offered in [essentially] a straight-up deal this summer for him, I would have a hard time saying no.
These are lateral moves. Why would Indy/Chicago have any interest in making a move like that?

If we are trading with Indy, my target would be Myles Turner. IT for Myles Turner straight up works on the trade machine. I would even throw in a non Brooklyn first.

Boston finally gets a rim protector - rebounder. As for Indy, if Larry is afraid of losing George he might have some interest in this deal. Plus there is this tweet from last week
Quote from: Michael Pina
Interviewer: "Name one player you're most excited to see this weekend."

Paul George: "Isaiah."
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelVPina/status/833022392964435968

I guess PG would love to play with IT.
IT and a first for Myles Turner.....if Ainge ever made that trade he would be instantly fired and most probably would never get another GM job again. That trade is so bad as to only be considered a joke. You were kidding by proposing that, right? You don't seriously think thay is a good trade, do you?

I would trade Isiah for Turner in a heartbeat, are you serious? Turner is 10 years younger, he's the ideal PG for this system, and we still have Smart, Rozier, and maybe Fultz or Ball to play the PG. You do realize that good PGs are a dime a dozen in the NBA, right?
I wish I was in your two fantasy basketball leagues because I would rule. IT and a first for Myles Turner is just a stupidly bad trade.

Re: Sounds like IT wants a max. "Keeping options open"
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2017, 10:23:29 PM »

Offline Rainmaker

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He absolutely deserves the max.

This is a lottery team without him.

I think that second sentence is the goal of a lot of fans. Why have stars when you can have a 25% shot at a complete unknown who, if everything breaks exactly correctly, might some day become as good as Thomas?
100% agree. There is a large section of this blog that believes the only way to #18 is through 19 year olds who might become great. Might. The calls to trade players for more picks in this draft, the calls to let IT and other excellent vets go because we need to build with players Smart's age and younger, the reluctance to not trade picks for the right type of stars is baffling to me.


Why can't we have it all? Good players and draft picks?
Seems like Ainge doesn't agree with you, he didn't make the deals.
Love never fails. Character never quits. And with patience and persistence, dreams do come true.
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