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Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« on: February 23, 2017, 06:07:49 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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In 2002, the Celtics wanted to make a big splash in the playoffs, so they traded a rookie (Joe Johnson) for two good bench players (Rodney Rodgers & Tony Delk).  We made the ECF Finals that year, got smoked by New Jersey and then our team fell apart soon after.  Meanwhile, Joe Johnson went on to become an All-Star.

Here are the results if you Google that trade:

1.) The 5 worst NBA trade deadline deals ever
http://fansided.com/2017/02/15/5-worst-nba-trade-deadline-deals-ever/

2.) Top-10 Best Trades in Pheonix Suns History
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/02/16/top-10-best-trades-in-phoenix-suns-history/3/

3.) Top Ten Worst Trades in Boston Sports History
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2011/02/20/top-ten-worst-trades-in-boston-sports-history10-6/

4.) The 20 Worst Trade Deadline Deals in NBA History (The JJ deal is #8 out of 20 all time)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/02/the-20-worst-trade-deadline-deals-in-nba-history/joe-johnson-to-the-suns

and last but not least, from our own forums:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/10/31/2527320/what-was-the-worst-celtics-trade

What was the worst Celtics deal of all time? 

The winner: The Joe Johnson Trade!

I'm glad we didn't make a move.  This trade haunts me to this day.  Panic moves get you to the ECF, sure, but they LOSE championships. 


Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 06:16:17 PM »

Offline crimcartel

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In 2002, the Celtics wanted to make a big splash in the playoffs, so they traded a rookie (Joe Johnson) for two good bench players (Rodney Rodgers & Tony Delk).  We made the ECF Finals that year, got smoked by New Jersey and then our team fell apart soon after.  Meanwhile, Joe Johnson went on to become an All-Star.

Here are the results if you Google that trade:

1.) The 5 worst NBA trade deadline deals ever
http://fansided.com/2017/02/15/5-worst-nba-trade-deadline-deals-ever/

2.) Top-10 Best Trades in Pheonix Suns History
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/02/16/top-10-best-trades-in-phoenix-suns-history/3/

3.) Top Ten Worst Trades in Boston Sports History
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2011/02/20/top-ten-worst-trades-in-boston-sports-history10-6/

4.) The 20 Worst Trade Deadline Deals in NBA History (The JJ deal is #8 out of 20 all time)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/02/the-20-worst-trade-deadline-deals-in-nba-history/joe-johnson-to-the-suns

and last but not least, from our own forums:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/10/31/2527320/what-was-the-worst-celtics-trade

What was the worst Celtics deal of all time? 

The winner: The Joe Johnson Trade!

I'm glad we didn't make a move.  This trade haunts me to this day.  Panic moves get you to the ECF, sure, but they LOSE championships.

tony delk and Rodney Rodgers were NO butler or PG13... so what trade this week equals to that trade?

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 06:20:28 PM »

Offline cltc5

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In 2002, the Celtics wanted to make a big splash in the playoffs, so they traded a rookie (Joe Johnson) for two good bench players (Rodney Rodgers & Tony Delk).  We made the ECF Finals that year, got smoked by New Jersey and then our team fell apart soon after.  Meanwhile, Joe Johnson went on to become an All-Star.

Here are the results if you Google that trade:

1.) The 5 worst NBA trade deadline deals ever
http://fansided.com/2017/02/15/5-worst-nba-trade-deadline-deals-ever/

2.) Top-10 Best Trades in Pheonix Suns History
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/02/16/top-10-best-trades-in-phoenix-suns-history/3/

3.) Top Ten Worst Trades in Boston Sports History
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2011/02/20/top-ten-worst-trades-in-boston-sports-history10-6/

4.) The 20 Worst Trade Deadline Deals in NBA History (The JJ deal is #8 out of 20 all time)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/02/the-20-worst-trade-deadline-deals-in-nba-history/joe-johnson-to-the-suns

and last but not least, from our own forums:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/10/31/2527320/what-was-the-worst-celtics-trade

What was the worst Celtics deal of all time? 

The winner: The Joe Johnson Trade!

I'm glad we didn't make a move.  This trade haunts me to this day.  Panic moves get you to the ECF, sure, but they LOSE championships.

No comparison

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 06:21:06 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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At the same time, if we'd dealt Kedrick Brown (who Phoenix was fine with) and re-signed Rodney Rogers instead of letting him walk, would anybody be upset?

The lesson isn't that teams should never deal prospects to improve, which seems to be the implication.


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Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 06:41:30 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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In 2002, the Celtics wanted to make a big splash in the playoffs, so they traded a rookie (Joe Johnson) for two good bench players (Rodney Rodgers & Tony Delk).  We made the ECF Finals that year, got smoked by New Jersey and then our team fell apart soon after.  Meanwhile, Joe Johnson went on to become an All-Star.

Here are the results if you Google that trade:

1.) The 5 worst NBA trade deadline deals ever
http://fansided.com/2017/02/15/5-worst-nba-trade-deadline-deals-ever/

2.) Top-10 Best Trades in Pheonix Suns History
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/02/16/top-10-best-trades-in-phoenix-suns-history/3/

3.) Top Ten Worst Trades in Boston Sports History
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2011/02/20/top-ten-worst-trades-in-boston-sports-history10-6/

4.) The 20 Worst Trade Deadline Deals in NBA History (The JJ deal is #8 out of 20 all time)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/02/the-20-worst-trade-deadline-deals-in-nba-history/joe-johnson-to-the-suns

and last but not least, from our own forums:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/10/31/2527320/what-was-the-worst-celtics-trade

What was the worst Celtics deal of all time? 

The winner: The Joe Johnson Trade!

I'm glad we didn't make a move.  This trade haunts me to this day.  Panic moves get you to the ECF, sure, but they LOSE championships.

tony delk and Rodney Rodgers were NO butler or PG13... so what trade this week equals to that trade?

Kenny Anderson for Chauncey Billups. Anderson was an All-Star and having a great season with Portland before landing to Boston.

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 09:02:02 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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This deal was pre-Ainge and pretty sure pre-Wyc ownership group as well.

As the OP points out, the deal served its purpose in getting the team to the ECF.  Good thing the current management wouldn't make a deal like this now.

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2017, 09:07:52 AM »

Offline Chief

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In 2002, the Celtics wanted to make a big splash in the playoffs, so they traded a rookie (Joe Johnson) for two good bench players (Rodney Rodgers & Tony Delk).  We made the ECF Finals that year, got smoked by New Jersey and then our team fell apart soon after.  Meanwhile, Joe Johnson went on to become an All-Star.

Here are the results if you Google that trade:

1.) The 5 worst NBA trade deadline deals ever
http://fansided.com/2017/02/15/5-worst-nba-trade-deadline-deals-ever/

2.) Top-10 Best Trades in Pheonix Suns History
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/02/16/top-10-best-trades-in-phoenix-suns-history/3/

3.) Top Ten Worst Trades in Boston Sports History
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2011/02/20/top-ten-worst-trades-in-boston-sports-history10-6/

4.) The 20 Worst Trade Deadline Deals in NBA History (The JJ deal is #8 out of 20 all time)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/02/the-20-worst-trade-deadline-deals-in-nba-history/joe-johnson-to-the-suns

and last but not least, from our own forums:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/10/31/2527320/what-was-the-worst-celtics-trade

What was the worst Celtics deal of all time? 

The winner: The Joe Johnson Trade!

I'm glad we didn't make a move.  This trade haunts me to this day.  Panic moves get you to the ECF, sure, but they LOSE championships.

tony delk and Rodney Rodgers were NO butler or PG13... so what trade this week equals to that trade?

Kenny Anderson for Chauncey Billups. Anderson was an All-Star and having a great season with Portland before landing to Boston.

Didn't we finally trade Kenny Anderson for Gin Baker's toxic contact?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2002/07/23/sports/pro-basketball-baker-goes-to-boston-in-a-five-player-trade.html
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Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2017, 09:11:49 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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until danny got here this franchise was run by a bunch of monkey's. what else is there to discuss?

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2017, 09:53:42 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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until danny got here this franchise was run by a bunch of monkey's. what else is there to discuss?

Danny was a huge part of the turnaround, but the most crucial change was going from Gaston to Wyc. If Gaston was still in charge of spending, I still don't think we'd have a title.


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Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2017, 10:28:30 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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until danny got here this franchise was run by a bunch of monkey's. what else is there to discuss?

Danny was a huge part of the turnaround, but the most crucial change was going from Gaston to Wyc. If Gaston was still in charge of spending, I still don't think we'd have a title.

Excellent point Roy. It gets overlooked easily, but the ownership change was the biggest part of the turnaround for this franchise. Ainge gets a lot of credit , as he should, but Wyc, Pagliuca and Co. were really the driving force for this turnaround from the beginning. It's great to have ownership that truly wants to win, is willing to spend money to do it, and trusts the basketball people on making basketball decisions.

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2017, 10:32:07 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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At the same time, if we'd dealt Kedrick Brown (who Phoenix was fine with) and re-signed Rodney Rogers instead of letting him walk, would anybody be upset?

The lesson isn't that teams should never deal prospects to improve, which seems to be the implication.
agreed.  At the time this trade happened, this is how I hoped things would have gone.  didn't like keeping Brown over Johnson when during the season when each got playing time, Johnson showed he could play while Brown did not.  Also, Rogers was a key pickup that moved the team forward to the next level.  not resigning him (thus driving the 'need' to replace him and the poor choice of it being washed-up Vin Baker) really sent this franchise down a dark hole for years afterwards.

While Rogers skill eroded within 1-2 years of the deal, keeping him and Johnson would have been something to build with for 2 years and longer as Johnson really developed.

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2017, 10:41:52 AM »

Offline footey

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Danny traded 7th pick in 2006 draft for Sebastian Telfair, and Giving up right to draft Brandon Roy. This is an imperfect example, in that he gave up the better player in Roy who had a great career cut short by bad knees, but got as a throw in Theo Ratliff whose expiring contract would be used to get Garnett a couple of years later. Danny claims he didn't want Roy because of his concern over his knees, but that trade on draft night was still a head scratcher for me. It was a terrible trade for a few years until Roy went down. The point is that Ainge has no problem giving up top draft pick for more immediate help. In this example, he got it wrong short term, but got it right long term, ironically.

Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2017, 10:44:33 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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At the same time, if we'd dealt Kedrick Brown (who Phoenix was fine with) and re-signed Rodney Rogers instead of letting him walk, would anybody be upset?

The lesson isn't that teams should never deal prospects to improve, which seems to be the implication.
agreed.  At the time this trade happened, this is how I hoped things would have gone.  didn't like keeping Brown over Johnson when during the season when each got playing time, Johnson showed he could play while Brown did not.  Also, Rogers was a key pickup that moved the team forward to the next level.  not resigning him (thus driving the 'need' to replace him and the poor choice of it being washed-up Vin Baker) really sent this franchise down a dark hole for years afterwards.

While Rogers skill eroded within 1-2 years of the deal, keeping him and Johnson would have been something to build with for 2 years and longer as Johnson really developed.

Yeah, I think we would have challenged for the Finals:

Vitaly / Rogers / Battie
Antoine / Waltah
Pierce / Williams
Johnson / Delk
Anderson / Bremer

No way we win a title, but for where we were, that deal would have been a strong one.


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Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2017, 10:56:25 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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Danny traded 7th pick in 2006 draft for Sebastian Telfair, and Giving up right to draft Brandon Roy. This is an imperfect example, in that he gave up the better player in Roy who had a great career cut short by bad knees, but got as a throw in Theo Ratliff whose expiring contract would be used to get Garnett a couple of years later. Danny claims he didn't want Roy because of his concern over his knees, but that trade on draft night was still a head scratcher for me. It was a terrible trade for a few years until Roy went down. The point is that Ainge has no problem giving up top draft pick for more immediate help. In this example, he got it wrong short term, but got it right long term, ironically.

I mean you already mentioned why Ainge passed on Roy...Sure Telfair sucked, but Ainge is clearly smart for realizing Brandon Roy had bad knees. He ended up dealing Telfair in the KG deal anyway.
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Re: Remembering Past Deals: Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2017, 11:54:03 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Danny traded 7th pick in 2006 draft for Sebastian Telfair, and Giving up right to draft Brandon Roy. This is an imperfect example, in that he gave up the better player in Roy who had a great career cut short by bad knees, but got as a throw in Theo Ratliff whose expiring contract would be used to get Garnett a couple of years later. Danny claims he didn't want Roy because of his concern over his knees, but that trade on draft night was still a head scratcher for me. It was a terrible trade for a few years until Roy went down. The point is that Ainge has no problem giving up top draft pick for more immediate help. In this example, he got it wrong short term, but got it right long term, ironically.

Oh how times have changed with shorter contracts in the new CBA's.

The cost at the time to cut one year off the end of a cap killing contract, gaining cap space in 2 yrs instead of 3, was the #7 overall pick. Even in a weak draft that seemed steep at the time.