Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 29411 times)

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Online celticinorlando

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I prefer George over Butler...but I do not think he would be available. If he is, I would go all in for him.

For George I would offer both the Nets #1s, Crowder, Bradley and one of the draft and stash guys


Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

I get why Chicago would want Jae Crowder.

I mean, which team wouldn't want Jae. Great contract, playing really well with good efficiency, locked up for 3 more years.
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Offline Monkhouse

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I prefer George over Butler...but I do not think he would be available. If he is, I would go all in for him.

For George I would offer both the Nets #1s, Crowder, Bradley and one of the draft and stash guys

Whoa, that's a lot.

I would do 2017' Nets, Bradley, Brown, Memphis, Boston 2019 pick, and any 3 second rounders.
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Offline saltlover

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

I get why Chicago would want Jae Crowder.

I mean, which team wouldn't want Jae. Great contract, playing really well with good efficiency, locked up for 3 more years.

Oh, for sure.  But at a certain point Chicago needs to decide whether they want to move on from Butler with a guaranteed top 4 pick (and likely better than that) in a draft that easily goes 4 deep at the top, in addition to some solid secondary assets, or keep Butler because they didn't get the secondary asset they want.  About the only way Ainge trade Crowder is if the Brooklyn pick isn't included.

Offline apc

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Interesting read on Bulls Blog
"And worse yet it may be influencing the current talks with the a Jimmy Butler trade with the Celtics. Because I’ve heard it referenced by Zach Lowe and David Aldridge that the Bulls are still insisting on already-ready players like Jae Crowder of Avery Bradley in return for Butler, like they had done before the 2016 draft. This doesn’t really make sense. For one thing, trade talks becomes a non-starter from Boston’s perspective, as they want those guys for a playoff push if they’re trading for Jimmy Butler this season. And it doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team to acquire guys like them, even Crowder who’s on a great contract (Bradley only has a year remaining before free agency), because if you trade Jimmy Butler now you’re going to be a terrible basketball team."

Full article:
http://www.blogabull.com/2017/2/22/14697712/bulls-cant-decide-on-trading-butler-and-are-asking-for-the-wrong-things-anyway


Online celticinorlando

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To me...you go all in and get a guy like Butler or George. If you can't...stand pat. Adding PJ Tucker or Bogut is not going to get Boston past the Cavs.

Finish the year strong, win a playoff series or 2 and make this the offseason that defines the next few seasons.

Offline jambr380

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

TP. I believe you're probably spot on.

I think Ainge is thinking about Lebron in the playoffs. If we don't have Crowder then it's up to Butler to guard him for 7 games. While Butler is no slouch, Lebron is just physically much more powerful than Butler and that's not going to help Butler's game on either end of the court (not to mention the inevitable ticky-tack fouls Lebron will get in the playoffs).

But if you have Crowder and Butler now you've got something going. You can put on the court a lineup of IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder and Horford. There's some amazing defensive talent that matches up well against Cleveland and fair amount of size/strength on the court as well. It still doesn't mean the Cs would be favored but they'd have a chance. But without Crowder I'm not sure they have much of one. If Danny is thinking this way then he's right not to make the deal. No use if it doesn't substantially improve the overall odds of winning a championship.

I was about to lose it until I saw yours and SL's posts. Anything more than the BKN pick and AB is a no-go for me. I keep seeing people casually involving Brown, Smart, and Crowder (while totally not paying attention to the salary implications laid out by SL). Some proposals even include both BKN picks.

I am ready for the deadline to pass and re-visit talks this summer. People are going a little cray-cray in their desire to acquire Butler.

Offline kozlodoev

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To me...you go all in and get a guy like Butler or George. If you can't...stand pat. Adding PJ Tucker or Bogut is not going to get Boston past the Cavs.

Finish the year strong, win a playoff series or 2 and make this the offseason that defines the next few seasons.
Adding Tucker and/or Bogut is the contingency plan after the bigger trade -- which, by the way, should make it quite obvious that some combination of Bradley/Crowder/Brown and Zeller/Jerebko/Amir is what is on the table.
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Online hpantazo

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Interesting read on Bulls Blog
"And worse yet it may be influencing the current talks with the a Jimmy Butler trade with the Celtics. Because I’ve heard it referenced by Zach Lowe and David Aldridge that the Bulls are still insisting on already-ready players like Jae Crowder of Avery Bradley in return for Butler, like they had done before the 2016 draft. This doesn’t really make sense. For one thing, trade talks becomes a non-starter from Boston’s perspective, as they want those guys for a playoff push if they’re trading for Jimmy Butler this season. And it doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team to acquire guys like them, even Crowder who’s on a great contract (Bradley only has a year remaining before free agency), because if you trade Jimmy Butler now you’re going to be a terrible basketball team."

Full article:
http://www.blogabull.com/2017/2/22/14697712/bulls-cant-decide-on-trading-butler-and-are-asking-for-the-wrong-things-anyway

If true, then the Bulls are just stupid. They should be asking for guys like Brown , Smart or Rozier
Or Zizic and Yabusele along with picks. Not guys like Bradley and Crowder.

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

I get why Chicago would want Jae Crowder.

I mean, which team wouldn't want Jae. Great contract, playing really well with good efficiency, locked up for 3 more years.

Oh, for sure.  But at a certain point Chicago needs to decide whether they want to move on from Butler with a guaranteed top 4 pick (and likely better than that) in a draft that easily goes 4 deep at the top, in addition to some solid secondary assets, or keep Butler because they didn't get the secondary asset they want.  About the only way Ainge trade Crowder is if the Brooklyn pick isn't included.

Exactly.

I don't understand why they can't accept the '17 Brooklyn and Jaylen Brown.

They were able to develop Jimmy Butler into an All-Star, and Brown literally has the same tools as Butler, so they could easily just create another JB in JB. And you get a potential top 4 pick? And Avery Bradley?

We need to move on if the Bulls can't accept that offer. That's already too rich.

The insistence of the Bulls wanting Crowder is because they want a cheap, effective player. Well, they ain't getting that.
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Offline Boris Badenov

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Interesting read on Bulls Blog
"And worse yet it may be influencing the current talks with the a Jimmy Butler trade with the Celtics. Because I’ve heard it referenced by Zach Lowe and David Aldridge that the Bulls are still insisting on already-ready players like Jae Crowder of Avery Bradley in return for Butler, like they had done before the 2016 draft. This doesn’t really make sense. For one thing, trade talks becomes a non-starter from Boston’s perspective, as they want those guys for a playoff push if they’re trading for Jimmy Butler this season. And it doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team to acquire guys like them, even Crowder who’s on a great contract (Bradley only has a year remaining before free agency), because if you trade Jimmy Butler now you’re going to be a terrible basketball team."

Full article:
http://www.blogabull.com/2017/2/22/14697712/bulls-cant-decide-on-trading-butler-and-are-asking-for-the-wrong-things-anyway

I was about to make this exact point. TP for the find.

Crowder's a valuable player, but he's worth more to us than them. It doesn't make sense for such a player to be included.

Rozier, Yab, Zizic, Brown, Smart, picks...why aren't the Bulls more interested in those? With Rondo, Butler and maybe Mirotic gone, the Bulls will have tons of cap room, as far as I can tell.

Offline nickagneta

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Interesting read on Bulls Blog
"And worse yet it may be influencing the current talks with the a Jimmy Butler trade with the Celtics. Because I’ve heard it referenced by Zach Lowe and David Aldridge that the Bulls are still insisting on already-ready players like Jae Crowder of Avery Bradley in return for Butler, like they had done before the 2016 draft. This doesn’t really make sense. For one thing, trade talks becomes a non-starter from Boston’s perspective, as they want those guys for a playoff push if they’re trading for Jimmy Butler this season. And it doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team to acquire guys like them, even Crowder who’s on a great contract (Bradley only has a year remaining before free agency), because if you trade Jimmy Butler now you’re going to be a terrible basketball team."

Full article:
http://www.blogabull.com/2017/2/22/14697712/bulls-cant-decide-on-trading-butler-and-are-asking-for-the-wrong-things-anyway

If true, then the Bulls are just stupid. They should be asking for guys like Brown , Smart or Rozier
Or Zizic and Yabusele along with picks. Not guys like Bradley and Crowder.
Is there any doubt that the Bulls are stupid after what they have been doing for years? From firing Thibs and hiring Hoiberg, to their contract decisions on Rose back when he was a gigantic injury risk, to their recent trades which seem based on getting player for player value rather than player for future assets value, to their sugnings of over the hill Wade and Rondo. The Bulls have been stupid for years and years.

Offline Boris Badenov

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Interesting read on Bulls Blog
"And worse yet it may be influencing the current talks with the a Jimmy Butler trade with the Celtics. Because I’ve heard it referenced by Zach Lowe and David Aldridge that the Bulls are still insisting on already-ready players like Jae Crowder of Avery Bradley in return for Butler, like they had done before the 2016 draft. This doesn’t really make sense. For one thing, trade talks becomes a non-starter from Boston’s perspective, as they want those guys for a playoff push if they’re trading for Jimmy Butler this season. And it doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team to acquire guys like them, even Crowder who’s on a great contract (Bradley only has a year remaining before free agency), because if you trade Jimmy Butler now you’re going to be a terrible basketball team."

Full article:
http://www.blogabull.com/2017/2/22/14697712/bulls-cant-decide-on-trading-butler-and-are-asking-for-the-wrong-things-anyway

If true, then the Bulls are just stupid. They should be asking for guys like Brown , Smart or Rozier
Or Zizic and Yabusele along with picks. Not guys like Bradley and Crowder.
Is there any doubt that the Bulls are stupid after what they have been doing for years? From firing Thibs and hiring Hoiberg, to their contract decisions on Rose back when he was a gigantic injury risk, to their recent trades which seem based on getting player for player value rather than player for future assets value, to their sugnings of over the hill Wade and Rondo. The Bulls have been stupid for years and years.

I think the current frustration is that they aren't being stupid in our favor.

Offline jambr380

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

I get why Chicago would want Jae Crowder.

I mean, which team wouldn't want Jae. Great contract, playing really well with good efficiency, locked up for 3 more years.

Oh, for sure.  But at a certain point Chicago needs to decide whether they want to move on from Butler with a guaranteed top 4 pick (and likely better than that) in a draft that easily goes 4 deep at the top, in addition to some solid secondary assets, or keep Butler because they didn't get the secondary asset they want.  About the only way Ainge trade Crowder is if the Brooklyn pick isn't included.

Exactly.

I don't understand why they can't accept the '17 Brooklyn and Jaylen Brown.

They were able to develop Jimmy Butler into an All-Star, and Brown literally has the same tools as Butler, so they could easily just create another JB in JB. And you get a potential top 4 pick? And Avery Bradley?

We need to move on if the Bulls can't accept that offer. That's already too rich.

The insistence of the Bulls wanting Crowder is because they want a cheap, effective player. Well, they ain't getting that.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume SL does not consider Jaylen Brown a 'secondary asset'. Due to future salary cap implications, the only player that makes sense in a trade (along with a BKN pick) is Avery Bradley. Of course if they would rather take Rozier, Young, Green, etc, then fine, but I imagine they want a legitimate NBA player (who is also still young).

Offline saltlover

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

I get why Chicago would want Jae Crowder.

I mean, which team wouldn't want Jae. Great contract, playing really well with good efficiency, locked up for 3 more years.

Oh, for sure.  But at a certain point Chicago needs to decide whether they want to move on from Butler with a guaranteed top 4 pick (and likely better than that) in a draft that easily goes 4 deep at the top, in addition to some solid secondary assets, or keep Butler because they didn't get the secondary asset they want.  About the only way Ainge trade Crowder is if the Brooklyn pick isn't included.

Exactly.

I don't understand why they can't accept the '17 Brooklyn and Jaylen Brown.

They were able to develop Jimmy Butler into an All-Star, and Brown literally has the same tools as Butler, so they could easily just create another JB in JB. And you get a potential top 4 pick? And Avery Bradley?

We need to move on if the Bulls can't accept that offer. That's already too rich.

The insistence of the Bulls wanting Crowder is because they want a cheap, effective player. Well, they ain't getting that.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume SL does not consider Jaylen Brown a 'secondary asset'. Due to future salary cap implications, the only player that makes sense in a trade (along with a BKN pick) is Avery Bradley. Of course if they would rather take Rozier, Young, Green, etc, then fine, but I imagine they want a legitimate NBA player (who is also still young).

That is correct.