Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 8725 times)

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Online Donoghus

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Offline Big333223

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Right around the 59 min. mark, they talk a little bit about Boston and Jimmy Butler (and Big Wos says something incomprehensibly stupid that no one even bothers to respond to). Windhorst calls the Boston/Butler situation "a game of chicken" that will go down to the wire on Thursday, if anything happens at all.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18735559

Offline BaronV

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I read through this thread and saw people discussing stats and salary regarding Jae.  But I didn't see any references to leadership or heart.  The Celtics quick rise to respectability in the 2014-2015 season didn't happen when we traded for IT in Feb 2015.  It happened when we got Crowder in Dec. 2014.  Although he wasn't the center of that deal (people thought that would be Wright), Crowder's impact on the team was immediately obvious.  He was a winner.  You could see that in his interactions with the other players, with the coaches, and with the results on the floor.  Players like that don't always fit into the traditional mold of a star in their sport. 

I'm guessing based on this that Brad and Danny see Jae's contributions in practice, in the locker room, and on the floor as extremely valuable to the team.   Replacing that isn't easy, and tearing it out mid-season could negatively impact this team's makeup in ways that are hard to predict and can take time to recover from. I think this leadership factor in addition to his contract and his skills are what is making this a tough decision for Danny. 

Online Boris Badenov

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I could go on for all sorts of combos. Best to wait to see what the deal is before getting upset about who is or isn't in the trade.

So true.

I mean, salary issues aside, I would guess that even people like SL would be OK with the trade if it was Crowder for Butler straight up. (Or Crowder plus Zeller and KO, let's say - something that works with the cap).

I'm sure that's an extreme example, but I think the point holds.


Online coffee425

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Right around the 59 min. mark, they talk a little bit about Boston and Jimmy Butler (and Big Wos says something incomprehensibly stupid that no one even bothers to respond to). Windhorst calls the Boston/Butler situation "a game of chicken" that will go down to the wire on Thursday, if anything happens at all.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18735559

I'll respond. He's right.
Jaylen Brown, Fultz, and whoever 2018 pick is.... that's 5 years before they even contend. So no one is scared of this "core".
Ask OKC. They took KD in 2006 and hit on two more MVP candidates after that. And got destroyed in the 2012 finals
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Offline Ogaju

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I read through this thread and saw people discussing stats and salary regarding Jae.  But I didn't see any references to leadership or heart.  The Celtics quick rise to respectability in the 2014-2015 season didn't happen when we traded for IT in Feb 2015.  It happened when we got Crowder in Dec. 2014.  Although he wasn't the center of that deal (people thought that would be Wright), Crowder's impact on the team was immediately obvious.  He was a winner.  You could see that in his interactions with the other players, with the coaches, and with the results on the floor.  Players like that don't always fit into the traditional mold of a star in their sport. 

I'm guessing based on this that Brad and Danny see Jae's contributions in practice, in the locker room, and on the floor as extremely valuable to the team.   Replacing that isn't easy, and tearing it out mid-season could negatively impact this team's makeup in ways that are hard to predict and can take time to recover from. I think this leadership factor in addition to his contract and his skills are what is making this a tough decision for Danny.

TP ... he is a glue guy, that is why they all want him and he is a glue guy with a basement bargain contract. Danny should really draw a line in the sand with Crowder. Let the other teams groom their own Crowder. You do not let players like that go for all the reasons given by SL.

TP to SL and Hpantazo for excellent takes in this thread.

Offline LGC88

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I read through this thread and saw people discussing stats and salary regarding Jae.  But I didn't see any references to leadership or heart.  The Celtics quick rise to respectability in the 2014-2015 season didn't happen when we traded for IT in Feb 2015.  It happened when we got Crowder in Dec. 2014.  Although he wasn't the center of that deal (people thought that would be Wright), Crowder's impact on the team was immediately obvious.  He was a winner.  You could see that in his interactions with the other players, with the coaches, and with the results on the floor.  Players like that don't always fit into the traditional mold of a star in their sport. 

I'm guessing based on this that Brad and Danny see Jae's contributions in practice, in the locker room, and on the floor as extremely valuable to the team.   Replacing that isn't easy, and tearing it out mid-season could negatively impact this team's makeup in ways that are hard to predict and can take time to recover from. I think this leadership factor in addition to his contract and his skills are what is making this a tough decision for Danny.

That's a big TP for you sir. Well said !

Offline Cman

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I read through this thread and saw people discussing stats and salary regarding Jae.  But I didn't see any references to leadership or heart.  The Celtics quick rise to respectability in the 2014-2015 season didn't happen when we traded for IT in Feb 2015.  It happened when we got Crowder in Dec. 2014.  Although he wasn't the center of that deal (people thought that would be Wright), Crowder's impact on the team was immediately obvious.  He was a winner.  You could see that in his interactions with the other players, with the coaches, and with the results on the floor.  Players like that don't always fit into the traditional mold of a star in their sport. 

I'm guessing based on this that Brad and Danny see Jae's contributions in practice, in the locker room, and on the floor as extremely valuable to the team.   Replacing that isn't easy, and tearing it out mid-season could negatively impact this team's makeup in ways that are hard to predict and can take time to recover from. I think this leadership factor in addition to his contract and his skills are what is making this a tough decision for Danny.

Let me reiterate what others have said: TP!
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Online coffee425

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I read through this thread and saw people discussing stats and salary regarding Jae.  But I didn't see any references to leadership or heart.  The Celtics quick rise to respectability in the 2014-2015 season didn't happen when we traded for IT in Feb 2015.  It happened when we got Crowder in Dec. 2014.  Although he wasn't the center of that deal (people thought that would be Wright), Crowder's impact on the team was immediately obvious.  He was a winner.  You could see that in his interactions with the other players, with the coaches, and with the results on the floor.  Players like that don't always fit into the traditional mold of a star in their sport. 

I'm guessing based on this that Brad and Danny see Jae's contributions in practice, in the locker room, and on the floor as extremely valuable to the team.   Replacing that isn't easy, and tearing it out mid-season could negatively impact this team's makeup in ways that are hard to predict and can take time to recover from. I think this leadership factor in addition to his contract and his skills are what is making this a tough decision for Danny.

That's a big TP for you sir. Well said !

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Online bdm860

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Also, this is by far his best year, by a lot, which makes me legit concerned it is not the "new normal," but rather could easily be a bit of a fluke year. So you also have to keep in mind you might be giving up what we'd be giving up for the Jimmy Butler of last year and the year before, rather than the Butler of this year, which is another half step down.

How often do guys have fluke years in the middle of a new contract?

If this was a contract year, maybe there should be concern, but when a guy just started a new contract, and is still playing great, I'd feel good about that player.

And I don't think it's that much of a fluke year to begin with, but more of an increased role with Rose/Gasol/Noah gone that's helping his points look good, but most of his other stats are consistent to what he's put up over the last couple of years.  Getting Jimmy Butler from 1-2 years ago is fine, in fact, it's what I'd expect from him if he came to Boston (because he wouldn't be taking on as much of the team's burden as he is in Chicago right now).

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Offline fairweatherfan

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I read through this thread and saw people discussing stats and salary regarding Jae.  But I didn't see any references to leadership or heart.  The Celtics quick rise to respectability in the 2014-2015 season didn't happen when we traded for IT in Feb 2015.  It happened when we got Crowder in Dec. 2014.  Although he wasn't the center of that deal (people thought that would be Wright), Crowder's impact on the team was immediately obvious.  He was a winner.  You could see that in his interactions with the other players, with the coaches, and with the results on the floor.  Players like that don't always fit into the traditional mold of a star in their sport. 

I'm guessing based on this that Brad and Danny see Jae's contributions in practice, in the locker room, and on the floor as extremely valuable to the team.   Replacing that isn't easy, and tearing it out mid-season could negatively impact this team's makeup in ways that are hard to predict and can take time to recover from. I think this leadership factor in addition to his contract and his skills are what is making this a tough decision for Danny.

Good characterization - it's more than cheap production, character and effort matter for setting the example.

Can't overweight those things; he'll never be a great player, and remains expendable in the right situation, but it makes him a guy you don't let go of lightly.

Offline dreamgreen

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People have to realize if you want to add better talent you have to trade pieces that other teams want.

AB, Crowder and this years Nets pick is a package teams want and I would do that for either Butler or preferably George. IMO it's a good deal for both teams.

Sorry but I don't see how Butler is that much better than Bradley+Crowder.

Also seeing the Cousins deal recently I'm a lot more hesitant to give that up for Butler.

I'd do 2017 BKN Pick + Bradley but not Bradley + Crowder. Sorry.

That's fine I understand what you're saying. I would still do it because at some point you have to re-up some of these contracts: IT, AB, Smart and others. Sometimes you consolidate and give younger guys a chance to play more while those other contracts still have value.

Offline JHTruth

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People have to realize if you want to add better talent you have to trade pieces that other teams want.

AB, Crowder and this years Nets pick is a package teams want and I would do that for either Butler or preferably George. IMO it's a good deal for both teams.

Sorry but I don't see how Butler is that much better than Bradley+Crowder.

Also seeing the Cousins deal recently I'm a lot more hesitant to give that up for Butler.

I'd do 2017 BKN Pick + Bradley but not Bradley + Crowder. Sorry.

That's fine I understand what you're saying. I would still do it because at some point you have to re-up some of these contracts: IT, AB, Smart and others. Sometimes you consolidate and give younger guys a chance to play more while those other contracts still have value.

This roster is seriously unbalanced with guards right and left and absolutely no one that can actually get a rebound or protect the rim. At some point you need to balance the roster, consolidate and cash in the assets, and seriously upgrade the talent on the team. If you keep Crowder in the deal, then turn around and move him for Drummond.

Danny needs to start making moves here. Before these assets start to lose their value and we end up with jack..

Online coffee425

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All of this talk is ridiculous.
Are we really debating the merits of trading a role player on a great contract vs an all star on his own great contract?
Are we really debating the merits of trading a top 5 pick (who we pray will be an allstar) for an actual allstar?



Just get the deal done and figure out the rest later. You would have a top coach with 3 allstar level players. That's 60 wins in the east.
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Offline Phantom255x

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All of this talk is ridiculous.
Are we really debating the merits of trading a role player on a great contract vs an all star on his own great contract?
Are we really debating the merits of trading a top 5 pick (who we pray will be an allstar) for an actual allstar?



Just get the deal done and figure out the rest later. You would have a top coach with 3 allstar level players. That's 60 wins in the east.

Now imagine trading the Top 5 pick, Crowder+Bradley, possibly one of Smart/Brown, and a lot more.

Still sound crazy to you?